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[jocke the beast]

Hi elf-haters!
Trying to build a tower but I fail time after time...

I build walls first then I try to build floor ontop the walls (to act as floor/roof).
But after that the stupid dwarves cant build the next floor-walls....
Anyone got some ideas?
Thanks!

[slothen]

a wall forms a walkable floor above it.  This is not a constructed floor.
Only one construction can be in a tile at once.
You cannot build a wall on top of a constructed floor.  You must remove the floor and place the wall either above empty space, on a natural floor, or on the floor formed by a construction beneath it.
If you're building a tower, you build floor tiles over the empty spaces, then build walls on top of the walkable-but-not-constructed floor formed by the walls below.

[Starver]

Ninjaed, as I expected when I started diagramming, but posting this anyway.

You can't construct walls on the same tile as constructed floors.

Where you have constructed walls on the layer below you get "default" floors on the level above (which you can build a wall/stairwell/etc on top of).  Where you have an open space (no wall directly below) you need to think ahead whether you're building a wall or a floor on that spot (to "roof off" the level below) and don't build the floor if it's going to be a wall.  Or, when you realise you've constructed a floor where you want to construct a wall then de-construct it.  But make sure you're not going to cause disconnections and cave-ins when you do so.  (Try and fail and learn from it, if necessary. )

The wall on the upper level will 'roof' the level below (insofar as game mechanics actually accept the concept of a given level's tile is roofed-over, which is mostly a function of what is on the level above, whether within natural rock or in construction).

e.g. Side-view slice...




_________ Ground level (z=0)
######### Undug earth (Z-1)

  _   _   Wall-top floors ('automatic', not built)
__#_<_#__ Some walls, and an up-stair
#########  (darn, do I have that the right way round? switch it, if not...)


  _ X _    Another level of stairwell
__#_<_#__
#########

  _    _   More wall-top floors
  #_X__#   Add floors to the edges and some walls, one over another wall, one "overhanging"
__#_<_#__
#########

  _   _ _
  #_X_#_#  Another stairwell, set of floors and an 'inner' wall
  #_X__#   (assume access to second-overhang 'around' the inner-wall)
__#_<_#__
#########

  _ > _ _  Roof-access of stairwell
  #_X_#_# 
  #_X__#   
__#_<_#__
#########

  __>____  Final roofing.  (Consider a hatch over the stairwell,
  #_X_#_#    or do this by access from external scaffolding that
  #_X__#     you'd dissasemble, could look 'neater'.  But doesn't
__#_<_#__    matter most of the time.)
#########
(The rooftop floors that aren't coloured are 'automatic', as before.
   You could build fresh floors over them, but not necessary
   and time-consuming, and might cause problems if you decide to
   extend your tower even further upwards upwards...)


Add salt to taste...

[Catsup]

i suggest that you instead build an inverted pyramid all on 1 single support linked to a cinnabar lever in the control room for your fort.

[jocke the beast]

Thanks!!! Very helpfull, will try it out!

[Larix]

If you don't want roof access, you can keep it a bit safer from intruders by making the roof access via ramp:
   
#\__#
Once you've floored over the free area apart from the ramp grid itself, just deconstruct the ramp and replace it with a pillar ('wall').

Currently, there's no simulation of static loads, just a simple rule of 'is supported' or not - as long as there's a solid construction - floor, wall, stair, ramp - directly north, south, east, west, above or below a construction, it's supported and will hold, and this supportedness propagates indefinitely: a pillar in the northeastern corner can 'rest' on a single support in the southwestern corner of the map, as long as there's an unbroken chain of supporting constructions between the two. Once you've got the basics down, i suggest you experiment, aboveground constructions are a great opportunity to go completely nuts.

[Starver]

With a bit more time, I thought I might demonstrate some other "tower-building" techniques for you.

This time these are plan-views. # = walls, + = floors (coloured when newly added), X = stairways (up/down, here, but could be just up or just down when bottom-level or top-level items...)


At the ground level (; = natural, grassy floor),
 imagine you've enclosed a 5x5 space, except for a doorway, and put a stairwell in the centre...

;;;;;;;;;;;
;;;;;;;;;;;
;;#######;;
;;#;;;;;#;;
;;#;;;;;#;;
;;#;;X;;#;;
;;#;;;;;#;;
;;#;;;;;#;;
;;###;###;;
;;;;;;;;;;;
;;;;;;;;;;;


On the level above you'll start with the following (. = open space)

...........
...........
..+++++++..  <- these floors are tops of the walls
..+.....+..
..+.....+..
..+..X..+.. <- build a corresponding stairway (accesses from immediately below)
..+.....+..
..+.....+..
..+++.+++..  <- notice the gap. No wall beneath here
...........
...........


...........
...........
..+++++++.. 
..+++++++.. You probably want to define all of these floors,
..+++++++..   but you can't do them all at once in a 5x5 rectangle
..+++X+++..
..+++++++..
..+++++++..
..+++.+++..  (also, for this level, we'll leave this gap unfloored)
...........
...........

...........
...........
..+++++++.. 
..+11122+..   The "quickest" way to define all those floors is
..+11122+..   as the numbered groups...  Four 2x3 floors (two being 3x2s)
..+44X22+..
..+44333+..
..+44333+..   (There are other ways... two 5x2s with two 2x1s... work it out...)
..+++.+++.. 
...........
...........



...........
...........
..#+++++#..   Now that you've got edge-access, build the corner walls first!
..+++++++..
..#+++++#..
..#++X++#..
..#+++++#..
..#+++++#..
..#++.++#..  Or all but one along the edge, so there's a corner-adjacent
...........    floor to build the corner while the corner needs completing.
...........

...........
...........
..#######..  Fill in the gaps   
..#+++++#..
..#+++++#..
..#++X++#..
..#+++++#..
..#+++++#..
..#######..  The wall over the gap is no problem.
........... 
...........


Now we have another level (Z+2) that has the same wall-tops as Z+1 was before we added these walls.


...........
...........
..+++++++.. 
..+.....+..
..+.....+..
..+..X..+.. Another stairwell access
..+.....+..
..+.....+..
..+++++++..  <- No gap, this time!
...........
...........

...........
...........
..+++++++.. 
..+..+..+..
..+..+..+..
..+++X+++.. An optional start (get the other floors in later) is to just send
..+..+..+..  floors out to the wall-tops...
..+..+..+..  (You could have done this on the first level.)
..+++++++..  <- No gap, this time!
...........
...........


...........
...........
..#+++++#..   Corners first!
..+..+..+..
..+..+..+..
..+++X+++..
..+..+..+..
..+..+..#..
..##++++#..   Or corner-plus-one-edge first
...........   (each wall being built has a place to build from).
...........

...........
...........
..##+++##..   When each new wall is built, you set walls
..#..+..#..   on the adjacent floors that you were
..+..+..+..    building from...
..+++X+++..
..+..+..#..
..#..+..#..
..###++##..
...........
...........

...........
...........
..###+###..   
..#..+..#..   Keep on 'building in' to the accesss..
..#..+..#..   
..+++X+++..   But don't build on the final wall-top
..#..+..#..    until you've got both sides set!
..#..+..#..
..###+###..
...........
...........

...........
...........
..#######..   
..#..+..#..   (Sometimes you get the dwarf building the
..#..+..#..    wall in the final gap get interrupted by
..#++X++#..    "creature occupying site"... him or herself.
..#..+..#..    I don't know why this is.  Cancel the suspended
..#..+..#..    wall and redo after the original wall material
..#######..    is cleared (used elsewhere, or taken to a stockpile)
...........    and it should eventually work out.)
...........

... insert remaining floors at leisure.  (Not so useful in the above.
  Might be something you want to delay with much larger tower floor-plans though!)


And what if you want to extend an overhang?
What if the corners are not on top of wall-tops, but one tile further out?
(Also applies if you've extended floors over the edge, and are building
 the walls one tile beyond them...)

...........
...........
..+++++++..   
..+..+..+..  You can actually do with less floor to edges
..+..+..+..  (as you could have done in the previous example
..+..X..+..    although instead of all corners first you'd
..+.....+..    have had to have started with a wall directly
..+.....+..    opposite and the pairs of walls adjacent
..+++++++..    until meeting back at the access...)
...........
...........

...........
..+........
..++++++++.   
..+..+..+..
..+..+..+..   Set up some temporary floors,
..+..X..+..    semi-adjacent to the corners you intend to build.
..+.....+..   (Will remain coloured.)
..+.....+..
.++++++++..
........+..
...........

...........
.#+.....##.
.#++++++++.   
..+..+..+..
..+..+..+..   Now set to be built both the corner-walls
..+..X..+..   ('floating', but supported by the temporary floor)
..+.....+..   and the wall for the other corner-adjacent tile
..+.....+..   (which is supported by the wall-top of the corner below).
.++++++++#.
.##.....+#.
...........

...........
.#......##.
.#+++++++..   
..+..+..+..
..+..+..+..   Now you can deconstruct (designate to remove construction)
..+..X..+..   the temporary floor.  The corner wall is held
..+.....+..   up by the first adjacent-to-corner wall.
..+.....+..   
..+++++++#.
.##......#.
...........

...........
.#########.
.#+++++++#.   
.#+..+..+#.
.#+..+..+#.  Every remaining edge-wall can be set to be built,   
.#+..X..+#.  now, the workers safely standing on the wall-tops
.#+.....+#.  with no access problems (even with just that one
.#+.....+#.  line of floor leading from the stairwell...)
.#+++++++#.
.#########.
...........

(Actually, I'd probably set all the walls except the ones the temporary floors
 are in the way of simultaneously with my setting the temporary floors for removal.
 Add the walls that these floors obstruct as each floor is deconstructed.)

((Also, deconstructed floors used to have their materials fall to the level below, when
 finally removed.  These days (probably to avoid falling damage to those below) the material
 is placed on the bit of adjacent floor from which the unbuilding happened.  Useful.  Also I like to
 use a different-coloured stone (a rarer one, like green olivine) for temporary structures, so I can
 see at a glance what I've still to remove.  With this new 'recovery' movement, the temporary
 olivine stone (or whatever it is) is closer to the next location I might want to use it...))

Fill in the remaining floors at leisure...


For a more "major" overhang extension, and one where you've got
door-gaps to fill, try something like the following...


...........
...........
..+++++++.. 
..+.....+..
..+.....+..
..+..X..+..
..+..+..+..
..+..+..+..
..+++++++..  Sending as spur of planned floors out beyond the gap.
.....+.....  (If you're not covering a gap, here, you can cancel
.....+.....   the building of this bit of floor, but here I'm assuming
.....+.....   there is one, as in the Z=0 wall opening, whether filled
.....+.....   by door or floodgate or raising bridge.)
.....+.....
...........
...........
...........


...........
...........
..+++++++.. 
..+.....+.. (You don't actually have to wait until all the
..+.....+..  floors have been built before setting the rest to be
..+..X..+..  built, but remember that it's a Last In/First Out
..+..+..+..  job queue, so that except for any floors currently
..+..+..+..  down as being started (i.e. not waiting), the ones you
..+++++++..  leave still to do will languish behind all the newer
.....+.....  floor-building jobs you add.  You can flourish this in many
.....+.....  different ways, for fun and profit.  Or you can end up having
.....+.....  to wait (or cancel and redo to add a floor you need now
.....+.....  to bring it to the front of the queue.)
..+++++++..  Extending some floors, including more
...........  temporary ones...
...........
...........


...........
...........
..+++#+++..   Only one wall can be safely built, somewhere opposite
..+.....+..    the place that has walking access.  (Maybe two adjacent ones,
..+.....+..    but you tend to get dwarves trying to work on the spot each other
..+..X..+..    is standing on...)
..+..+..+..
..+..+..+..
..+++++++..
.....+.....
.....+.....
.....+.....
.....+.....
..+++++++..
..##...##..  Two 'hanging' walls, one relying on the temporary floor.
...........
...........


...........
...........
..++###++..  Extend the walls around
..+.....+..   
..+.....+..   
..+..X..+..   
..+..+..+..
..+..+..+..
..+++++++..
...+.+.+...  More floors (you might have set these up first
...+.+.+...   instead of the 'hanging spur', actually)
...+.+.+...
...+.+.+...
...+++++... Temporary floors removed
..#######..  End wall can be completed, in this setup...
...........
...........

Skip a few steps and you have...

...........
...........
..#######..
..#.....#..   
..#.....#..   
..#..X..#..   
..#..+..#..   
..#..+..#..   
..#+++++#..  Nearly closed everything off.
..#+.+.+#..
..#+.+.+#..
..#+.+.+#..
..#+.+.+#..
..#+++++#..
..#######..
...........
...........



...........
...........
..#######..
..#.....#..   
..#.....#..   
..#..X..#..   
..#..+..#..   
..#..+..#..   
..##+++##..
..#+.+.+#..
..#+.+.+#..
..#+.+.+#..
..#+.+.+#..
..#+++++#..
..#######..
...........
...........

...........
...........
..#######..
..#.....#..   
..#.....#..   
..#..X..#..   
..#..+..#..   
..#..+..#..   
..###+###.. What's left is a gap for a door...
..#+.+.+#..  And you can fill the rest of the floors in at leisure,
..#+.+.+#..   and start anew on the level above...
..#+.+.+#..
..#+.+.+#..
..#+++++#..
..#######..
...........
...........


...........
...........
..+++++++..
..+.....+..   
..+.....+..   
..+..X..+..   
..+.....+..   
..+.....+..   
..+++.+++.. The level above (wall-top floors!).
..+.....+.. Note the gap.  Again...
..+.....+.. But by now you know how to work with that!
..+.....+.. (Get around it and/or use it, that is.)
..+.....+..   
..+.....+..   
..+++++++..
...........
...........




Oh, and Larix is right.  One other thing, though, is that constructed fortifications don't have wall-tops.  So if you're building fortifications on one level you don't have automatic 'floors' on the level above and you have to design as if you have "overhanging" or floating walls, like that final "upper level extension" is made.

However, constructed walls (with wall-top floors) can be carved into fortification (still with wall-top floors).  Needs stonecarvers as well as builders, but depending on what you are building it might be easier/quicker to do it with a mixed workforce.

[Garath]

put it on the wiki, "how to build a tower"

[Maklak]

> put it on the wiki, "how to build a tower"
Seconded, this is very useful. It might use some more info on fortifications and bridges, but the few sentences at the end are quite informative.

> actually, I'm pretty sure that is already on the wiki
Then it is in some obscure location, because I can't find it.

[Garath]

actually, I'm pretty sure that is already on the wiki

[3iff]

There is "DF2012:Mega construction" on the wiki but it's hard to find and poorly labelled...especially when I'm just looking for tower building guidance...but I can now build a tower, and thanks to the above I can try getting a bit more creative.

[Garath]

> put it on the wiki, "how to build a tower"
Seconded, this is very useful. It might use some more info on fortifications and bridges, but the few sentences at the end are quite informative.

> actually, I'm pretty sure that is already on the wiki
Then it is in some obscure location, because I can't find it.

actually, from "wall":

It is also important to remember that you cannot build on top of a constructed floor, but you can build a wall on top of another constructed wall, even though the upper surface of a wall is otherwise indistinguishable from a constructed floor.

and:

Constructed walls cannot be engraved, but can be carved into fortifications (designate - carve fortifications). As usual, the fortifications will block movement, but not liquids or small objects such as bolts.

on the fortification, the info is available at the page for fortification:

Note that constructed fortifications do not have walkable floors above them, while carved fortifications do

[Starver]

I've not got my own Wiki account, yet, so not quite ready to contribute "all that I know", but it occured to me that I never went so far as to present some of my even more advanced building techniques...


Imagine you want to design an overhanging room without quite
so much monitoring to see how things are going....


e.g.
From    To

.....   ....########
+++++   ++++#+++++#
+++++   ++++#+++++#
++X++   ++X+#+++++#
+++++   ++++#+++++#
+++++   ++++#+++++#
.....   ....#######

Set an 'impossible' block of walls
....#######
++++#######
++++#######
++X+#######
++++#######
++++#######
....#######

Cancel most of them...

....#######
++++#######
++++#######
++X+#######
++++#######
++++#######
....#######

Leaving gaps (and a lot of unreachable "to be built" walls)
....#######
+++++......
+++++.....#
++X++.....#
+++++.....#
+++++......
....#######


Now add floorsto be built (still not unpaused!)...
Two spurs with temporary ends, can be arranged, thusly, in this situation...
....#######
+++++++++++
+++++.....#
++X++.....#
+++++.....#
+++++++++++
....#######

And also the main floor in-between to fill that gap
....#######
+++++++++++
++++++++++#
++X+++++++#
++++++++++#
+++++++++++
....#######

And you can do some of the near-side walls (although if you wait you can avoid the chances of
"cannot reach site, suspending" messages)
....#######
+++++++++++
++++#+++++#
++X+++++++#
++++#+++++#
+++++++++++
....#######


Leave to complete itself (47 individual building jobs,
I think that'd be?) to get the following fully built,
while you micromanage something else in your fort.
....#######
+++++++++++
++++#+++++#
++X+++++++#
++++#+++++#
+++++++++++
....#######

Remove the temporary floors and add the remaining walls, as necessary...
....#######
++++#+++++#
++++#+++++#
++X+++++++#
++++#+++++#
++++#+++++#
....#######


May not be as simple as this.  But remember you can designated a 10x10 block of walls or floors or stairsways or Fortifications, even though it's impossible to build the whole impassible block of walls/fortifications.  Then you just immediately "carve out" the ones that are not needed, or in the way of another job.

I could have removed all but the top and bottom set of seven walls, in the example above, then set a 6-wide, 5-high block of floors in the gap (includes the 'temporary' floors and the place where the three end-walls sat, above), then cancelled the 6-wide, 3-high block, replacing with walls (re-instating that three-block of walls) then cancelled the 5-wide, 3-high walls in order to set down the floors.

Sometimes (especially when 'building round corners') that's what you need to do, if you're laying it all out in one go...

e.g.



Target

.......H+H (fortification, floor, fortification, overhanging)
.......H+H
HHHHHHHH+H
+++++++++H (sent out on a 'gantry', hanging off an existing gantry
HHHHHHHH+H
.......H+H
.......H+H

Stage 1
...HHHHHHH
...HHHHHHH
HHHHHHHHHH
+++HHHHHHH A block of fortifications, just to get the "end-wall" of them
HHHHHHHHHH (the yellow fortifications are to be immediately cancelled)
...HHHHHHH
...HHHHHHH

Stage 2
...++++++H
...++++++H
HHH++++++H
+++++++++H A block of floors, just to get the adjacent floors
HHH++++++H (note that some of the cancelled floors are where you
...++++++H  want floors... this is intentional, as it was with some of)
...++++++H  the fortifications above...)

Stage 3
...HHHHH+H
...HHHHH+H
HHHHHHHH+H
+++HHHHH+H A block of fortifications, just to get the "inner end-wall"
HHHHHHHH+H  and the line of fortifications that lead up to it
...HHHHH+H
...HHHHH+H

Stage 4
.......H+H
.......H+H
HHHHHHHH+H
+++++++++H Now the final floors.  Then wait for it to be built.
HHHHHHHH+H
.......H+H
.......H+H





Except that there's loads of different ways to do it...  Some more efficient, some less so.  But sometimes efficiency is inversely proportional to the actual ease of doing so in your current situation (e.g. if you're simultaneously trying to amass enough of a certain type of rock block to make your structure, or don't want your workers standing out on long spur-gantries when there's a risk of enemy archers popping up).  Just keep an eye out for opportunities, and learn from mistakes.

(The biggest mistake is generally forgetting about cave-in potential when removing a "temporary" part of the process (or a bit of structure you made an error placing/keeping placed) too early, before the adjacent structure(s) that it alone is supporting has gained additional stable supporting connections.  This can cause whole blocks to slice through lower layers of a structure to catastrophic conclusion, even if no dwarves are 'riding' the initially loosened structure down...  But you'll surely learn once you've had this happen to you. )

[Maklak]

@Garath:
Yes, wall and fortification have some information and "Mega construction" is useful, but there is no step by step guide to vertical architecture, such as this and there should be. I especially appreciate how everything is shown with pictures. This tower guide explained to me things I didn't understand before.

I'm also interested in efficiently building a 3-4 tiles high wall with fortifications on top (to block off dust storms or just secure the caverns) and what's your take on gate towers, such as using floor grates, a long path for traders and a short one for invaders and so on. Another thing of interest is efficient production and transport of blocks to where they're needed. Block stockpiles tend to fill up with bins and those are then slowly hauled back and forth, possibly suspending / cancelling some jobs. Block stockpiles without bins just cost a lot of hauling jobs. So what should I do, have no block stockpiles, build the mason's shops close to planned constructions, add worthless stone stockpiles and wheelbarrows there?

For a wall, I guess I just have to do this and there's no work-around. Assume inside is to the east and hostiles are to the west. I also say nothing about corners, but it's covered in your tower guide.

Ground:
...#...
...#...
...#X..
...#...
...#...
...#...

Once that's built, add more stairs on top and build a scaffolding floor using the floors on top of the wall for access:

Ground +1:
...++..
...++..
...+X..
...++..
...++..
...++..

When the scaffolding is done, build another wall on top of the previous one:

Ground +1:
...#+..
...#+..
...#X..
...#+..
...#+..
...#+..

Repeat a few times and for final level either have overhang fortifications or just build them instead of the last wall. 

Final level, variant 1: No scaffolding necessary, but the fortification is hanging in the air, which isn't aesthetically pleasing. I suppose the level below could have some "supports" from overhanging walls 5 or so tiles apart.
...H+...
...H+...
...H+X..
...H+...
...H+...
...H+...

Final level, variant 2, needs scaffolding:
...++..
...++..
...+X..
...++..
...++..
...++..

then
...H+..
...H+..
...HX..
...H+..
...H+..
...H+..

[slothen]

biggest problem with building a tower is you can't construct 20 z-levels of a up-down staircase at once.