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Author Topic: Building a tower....impossible  (Read 1939 times)

Starver

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Re: Building a tower....impossible
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2013, 09:46:56 am »

I tend to do all my 'arrange-all-to-be-designed-at-once' flummery on any given Z-level then set the Z+1 stairwell to be built, then 'camp' (excepting for automatic view-zooms to invaders, births, or manually moving to other things I need to micromanage that I'm being informed about) with the view on the respective Z+2 until the "empty space" dot[1] changes to "there's a construction beneath" dot[1], then designate Z+2's stairwell, and "design all at once" what I can on the Z+1.

IYSWIM.

Although if the (i.e. 'any given') Z+1 relies on currently non-existent wall-tops of the current lowest "still being built" level that is respectively the Z-null level, then I may only be able to partially set out the Z+1 (and, when the Z+2 can be started, that as well) according to what supporting walls the immediately-lower Z-levels have been completed with.  (Again, the LIFO-ordering of construction jobs can be annoying[2]...

However, you may find it easier to have one dedicated mason (on top of any other masons you have working at block-carving or working on another bit of your site... and use Burrows to ensure they're where they are supposed to be and this guy is here for the duration) and a carefully-sized pre-filled stockpile[3] of material by the base of your prospective multi-Z staircase making short work of constructing each level of stairwell at a time (again, 'camping' on the next level above, ready to pounce with a new (b)uild and (c)onstruct (x)-type up/down staircase the moment this becomes possible), then once this is done you have the access to each level and can mess about with adding in enough floors to start getting access to build the corners of your tower, or whatever you now need to do.

(You could make those temporary floors over the top of what will eventually be wall-tops, knowing that you'll be dismantling them in order to rebuild walls on that level.  If of the rock type(s) that you're building the tower with you might end up speeding the process up a bit anyway due to the raw materials now lying around on the very Z-level (or within a couple) where they are going to be needed.  Perhaps even on the very tile that some kid deconstructed them back onto.  Look, it makes sense in context.  And nice to see you're doing well on what you're doing, of course.)


[1] May differ for tilesets...

[2] Cancelling any walls still "waiting for a mason/whoever" and re-doing them in order to make them come up next in the next job-grab (and holding off adding other jobs... or only re-do them once those other jobs have been set-up) rather goes against the philosophy of spending more time at the beginning in order to save time later on.  But I still do it.  Even with 100 masonry-enabled dwarves handling my latest megaproject construction idea (and/or being haulers ensuring that the strategically local stone and/or stone block stockpiles are being refilled, to save the distance the masons have to wander back and forth against the coalface 'skyface') a 40x40 enclosure can take a long time to wall off, on each level...  That being the dimensions of one particular recent megaproject.  (Minimal floors within it, at least at the start.)

[3] When I'm setting up walls, or roads or something, on the ground I will often put a 'temporary' stockpile of the appropriate material directly alongside the place to which I wish to start construction.  With zero bins, where that's applicable.  When I notice that a hauler has filled a tile of stockpile with the given material I then (b)uild and (c)onstruct the wall, or when the stockpile (as big as necessary to hold the required paved road's full complement of materials) is filled I can (b)uild the paved r(o)ad, or whatever the key is.  Checking while choosing material that each material item (out of multiple, where applicable) is being drawn from a distance no more than a handful of tiles away, I then de-stockpile exactly those tiles that relate (or at least closely relate) to the building materials I've just assigned for construction.  This stops additional excess hauling to the stockpile the moment the material is moved the tile or three off of the stockpile onto the appropriate construction-tile, and helps me keep track of things.  Sorry, this explanation probably doesn't work for you, and there are also other ways of doing it.  But I'm sure you can work things out yourself, how to put most of the hauling duties on the haulers and thus allowing the masons/metalworkers creating the rock/metal constuctions to spend more time building and less time hauling from the other side of the map...
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joeclark77

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Re: Building a tower....impossible
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2013, 11:31:56 am »

Just a quick comment on this part.  You could designate the walls on an intermediate level in a much quicker way.


...........
...........
..#+++++#..   Now that you've got edge-access, build the corner walls first!
..+++++++..
..#+++++#..
..#++X++#..
..#+++++#..
..#+++++#..
..#++.++#..  Or all but one along the edge, so there's a corner-adjacent
...........    floor to build the corner while the corner needs completing.
...........

...........
...........
..#######..  Fill in the gaps   
..#+++++#..
..#+++++#..
..#++X++#..
..#+++++#..
..#+++++#..
..#######..  The wall over the gap is no problem.
........... 
...........





...........
...........
..#+++++#..   Starting this way, you get all four corners in only two "build" commands.
..#+++++#..
..#+++++#..
..#++X++#..
..#+++++#..
..#+++++#..
..#+++++#.. 
...........

...........
...........
..#######..  After the corners are built, designate the other side walls.
..#+++++#..  Again, this only takes two commands.
..#+++++#..
..#++X++#..
..#+++++#..
..#+++++#..
..#######..
........... 
...........



Also a note on doing the roof.  Instead of building the roof from your central staircase (in which case your roof is left "incomplete" as flying building destroyers could enter through the hatches), what I do is build an up-ramp instead of one of my intended wall tiles.  Designate a floor over the whole interior including over the staircase.  When finished, deconstruct the ramp and build a wall there -- the wall will naturally create an impenetrable floor on the level above: voila, you have a complete roof.
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Starver

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Re: Building a tower....impossible
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2013, 12:41:02 pm »

Just a quick comment on this part.  You could designate the walls on an intermediate level in a much quicker way.

Definitely.  I was just demonstrating multiple principles by putting two different methods (corners only, or "all but one from the corners only[1]") in the same picture.  Inefficiently.  Same went for the "corner only" or "corner and one edge" of the "build along wall-top" example that followed.  Best to stick to one or the other, and not mix.

The advantage of doing corners-only (assuming full floor access, not wall-top) in the first stage is that they go straight to the front of the building queue (after everything currently 'in process' has happened, until you add something else at least...).  You need only wait for the four completed corner constructions then paint down the edge-wall lines.  (Or even sooner, if you see the builder(s) of adjacent corners standing on the perpendicular edges, allowing you to put down the required joining-edge wall-length with relative impunity against self-blocking jobs.)

The advantage in doing "all but one adjacent wall" is to get more wall-tops sorted, more quickly, in order to get the next level above properly walled-and-floored[3], or extend your overhangs further.  And you could have particular wall-tops you'd like sooner than others, so set their building definitions last, to be done 'first' (or nearly so, pending even more constructions going on).

And then there's various hybrid[2] variations.  Play with it, is what I'm saying.  If you don't want to spend more time (paused) initially setting it up then you might need to spend a little more time tidying up, but you can play it vice-versa.  A few key-presses either way.  And as for total key-presses, are you counting the tap-tap-tap of extending each wall sideways/north-south??  Eats into the efficiency (although I'll allow you're still ahead on total key-presses, for each additional time I have to start a new wall, rather than just extend the current template that I'm laying down).


[1] Even more efficient (in my schema!) with
.........
.#####+#.
.++++++#.
.#+++++#.
.#++X++#.
.#+++++#.
.#++++++.
.#+#####.
.........

...when enough is finished, there are just four single-wall gaps to fill.

[2]
Designate walls at '1', '2', '3', '4' (any order).  Possibly wait a beat of unpaused game-time then designate corners at 'A', 'B', 'C', 'D' (again, internal order of this sequence not important).  Corners will sit at the front of the queue (barring any edge walls that got seized upon in that beat) and then you can add the 'missing' walls in the gaps once the corners have been completed, even before the numeric-indicated lengths have been finished.  Or possibly even started!
.........
.A1111+B.
.++++++2.
.4+++++2.
.4++X++2.
.4+++++2.
.4++++++.
.D+3333C.
.........

Yes that's eight twelve total designations (eight at first, four more later on, compared to eight total for each of the "non-hybrid" versions from which this is derived, and four in your example) but it might let you get on with other things in the mean-time.


[3] Side view of construction...

 #_##### "all but one corner-adjacent" set to be built on Z+1
_#######_ atop a completed ground-level floor

 #####_# depending on what floors you have, you can switch the gap direction on the Z+2
 ####### even before you set this Z+1 gap to be filled....
_#######_


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Big Bear

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Re: Building a tower....impossible
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2013, 07:05:57 pm »

Really great explanation and diagrams, Starver. Thanks!

Now I can see why I've sometimes had problems building towers in the past. I didn't think about leaving gaps like that.

I also agree, this should be on the wiki.


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Dushan

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Re: Building a tower....impossible
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2013, 09:52:15 am »

you start leaving gaps when you build when you notice your dwarves unable to build the corner bits, then you have to spend time deconstructing and rebuilding.  After  you do it a few times you relize why lol.
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DWC

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Re: Building a tower....impossible
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2013, 10:20:55 am »

I just single-tile designate every corner first, because I ususally put in a mix of windows, fortification and walls for the main part of the wall.
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