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Author Topic: Did your school have Cliques?  (Read 5987 times)

weenog

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Re: Did your school have Clicks?
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2013, 03:28:15 am »

The word you're looking for is "clique", and they absolutely existed at several of the schools I attended.  But no, they were not quite like you see on television or in the movies.  What you're seeing in that media is exaggerated for effect, and oversimplified.  It's easier to slap a label and some identifying qualities on a group and run them as a hive mind than it is to develop individual characters with depth, conflicts and unique traits.

At the school I attended longest, the students were divided into jock, prep, choir, band, tech, drama, nerd and freak, and mostly kept to their own, although there was some connection in cases of overlapping fields of influence.  Tech and drama shared a slight mutual respect because techies ran the cameras and recording equipment that put drama's more entertaining plays, television shows and indie movies on video cassette and public access TV channels, for example.  Ironically, it was the freaks -- who had deliberately opted out of the whole system and set themselves up as pariahs -- who had the easiest time interacting between cliques.  They didn't respect the boundaries between cliques, and so they stomped across social fences like blind elephants.  Also, many freaks turned to open drug abuse as a shared badge of rebellion, and those users in other cliques who preferred to keep their habits more secret still had to get it from somewhere.

I started out tech, grew disillusioned by various factors, and eventually dropped out into the freaks.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 03:31:28 am by weenog »
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Listen up: making a thing a ‼thing‼ doesn't make it more awesome or extreme.  It simply indicates the thing is on fire.  Get it right or look like a silly poser.

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Neonivek

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Re: Did your school have Clicks?
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2013, 03:29:48 am »

Quote
The word you're looking for is "clique"

It is the word proper and I am aware of it. Yet people spell it both ways anyhow and I am a firm believer in evolving linguistics outside the dictations of the people who write the dictionary.

Which is only natural given that I make up words all the time.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 03:32:29 am by Neonivek »
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Starver

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Re: Did your school have Clicks?
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2013, 03:45:41 am »

Ah...  cliques

Anyway, I never noticed, personally.  But can you, when you're embroiled in the middle of it[1]?  This is despite (or because of?) all kinds of obvious clique-ridden US imports.  The Breakfast Club, Grease, Buffy The Vampire Slayer, etc...  Actually, given how lampshaded the concept is in the very first episode of Buffy (and how it continues to be pointed out as an obvious cliché in even more modern productions, like Sym-Biotic Titan), I'm wondering if was ever quite so true.

OTOH, I could believe that the real-life source of all those American dramas (American High Schools) do have the Lettermen and the Pink Ladies and the Nerd Clubs that my own High School (secondary education) and Sixth-Form College (next stage on) never really had.

And, now I come to think of it, at University there's the "Soc" structure...  Never quite as extreme as depicted in the US-sourced fictions (but then would it ever be in even the US-sourcee facts?) as one could easily have ones toes in both the Rugby Club and the Role-Players Soc and the Anti-<insert some subjectively vicious, evil, diabolical world-view here> League without insta-ostracising oneself through some sort of unspoken mutual-exclusivity treaty.

As with evolution[3], the development of separate species from a single gene-pool occurs where separate occurs.  Geographic or some other form.  At least until you get to the stage of choosing your off-campus house-mates based on who you'd be happy sharing with[4].  But I think there's way too much possibility to mix it up when Freshman (gen. "Freshers", in the UK) start, at whatever level.  Yes, the big dumb brute is probably going to be part of whatever flavour of hard-hitting football variety you have in your locality (Gridiron/Rugby Union or League/Aussie Rules/whatever), but then so are less brutish individuals who provide the finesse, and they maybe can also be part of the Theatre Group or Chess Club (perhaps a prime candidate for Chess Boxing) or even, one would hope, be able to openly be part of the local LGBT organisation without problems...  (Pssibly with a number of advantages for the rest of the membership...)


I'm not disbelieving that cliques exist...  However, I do think they get exaggerated for dramatic effect.  Looking back in life I reckon I've been a member of a clique-sized grouping a number of times (which actually surprises me, not being very good at making social connections), but very rarely could I see these as being a clique.  There was the one time I was part of a "gang of three" where we were really quite disparate.  A bit like the Class Sketch from TW3 (I was the middle-one), except that my taller friend was more spivvy while the smaller friend was very much on the "upper" side of upper-middle class, son of a respected local magistrate/shopkeeper.  I don't really know whether we were a "clique of the cliqueless" or a "what's-left-over-after-all-the-other-gangs-had-formed gang".  I'm trying to remember what everyone else was doing, and... well, the boys were (as far as I could see...) an amorphous mass.  There were groupings of girls that I could (barely) identify by name (girls' names, no Pink Lady-like group-names that I know of), after so many decades, but then girls do that...

Or did that.  This was before Social Media and the likes of forums like this where one can self-identify with any group one wants and (at least in the less photo-ridden ones, i.e. outside primary Facebook accounts and the like) where one can easily plonk oneself within any sub-culture one wishes (with virtually the whole world to choose from) for either realistic or subversive reasons.

Of course, there's potential for adult cliques as well, but that's now more a matter of society.  And technically 'outgrows' the definition of clique.  Golf Clubs rarely have only five or six members, and these rarely do nothing but "hang out at the mall, wearing their matching plus-fours, Argyl socks and tartan tam-o-shanters", or whatever cliché you want to attach to them.


No, I think it's more an exagerated trope.  Although probably has a basis in fact (and more a basis in US educational system fact?). Whether the (eventual) writers of those trope-laden fictions were always "alone in High School" I would probably challenge as a stereotype, except that I'm betting that most people considered themselves "alone" in that situation.  Although that's mostly from my own experience (where I know I was, but where I could I was "alone in a group", and assume that everyone was individual but desperately clinging onto whatever group would have them for an outward sign of belonging).


(Wow, 16 new replies on what was an empty-thread when I started.  Doubtless other people have been much more succinct than I have.)

[1] Or, like in "Only You Can Save Mankind" when the only grouping one can be part of is "the group of everyone that isn't already[2] in a group".

[2] Not "Russell's Clique"...  "The group of all people who are not in a group..." ;)

[3] Assuming you subscribe to that, I know some people don't.  But I won't proselytise.

[4] My personal experience is that I ended up house-sharing with a group of football(soccer)-obsessed louts who partied hard and long.  Well, except for the 'stoner' in the upstairs room, who was only partly obsessed with spherical pigs-bladders (but still joined in, and enjoyed a drink when "out with the lads", rather than when in his room with his Harem of glamorous[5] but somewhat spaced hanger-onerers).  This due to desperation at not finding a place more suited to my own tastes, and snatching at this offer only a day before one of the "head geeks" (more socially adept than I, but definitely part of the computer-set) got around to asking if I wanted to be part of his house-sharing exercise.  So instead of the remote hillside farmhouse that soon got itself a T-1 line (or whatever the equivalent wasm in that time and place) to service the local hacker (not cracker!) community, I ended up in the seaside ex-Guest House with the louts who would regularly come home after the pubs had shut and were known to bash down the fire-door betwixt us and the next-door building (to the consternation of whoever lived there) and otherwise be antisocial.  (Rather than asocial, which is what I'd have much preferred.)

[5] TBH most females were glamorous to me, at that age.  And this age too, but I've gotten past the stage where they're too glamorous to be attainable and am now well into the stage where a large demographic of the glamorous is unattainable because it'd be creepy to pursue them at my current age...  Or worse.
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Starver

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Re: Did your school have Clicks?
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2013, 03:53:26 am »

Quote
The word you're looking for is "clique"

It is the word proper and I am aware of it. Yet people spell it both ways anyhow and I am a firm believer in evolving linguistics outside the dictations of the people who write the dictionary.

Which is only natural given that I make up words all the time.
It's people like you who have bastardised words like "Decimate" to give it an erroneous popular meaning!  Grgh!  Argh!


(I assumed it was the Noah Webster spelling, for the 'colonials' amongst you, rather than the OED one (although I haven't checked my OED/Chambers dictionaries yet, so those may also have the alternate spelling.  And perhaps pronunciation.  "Cleek", right?).)
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Cheeetar

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Re: Did your school have Clicks?
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2013, 03:56:34 am »

Quote
The word you're looking for is "clique"

It is the word proper and I am aware of it. Yet people spell it both ways anyhow and I am a firm believer in evolving linguistics outside the dictations of the people who write the dictionary.

Which is only natural given that I make up words all the time.

You're the first person I've seen to spell it as 'click'. It actually took me a moment to figure out what you were talking about in the original post.
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Neonivek

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Re: Did your school have Clicks?
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2013, 03:59:31 am »

Quote
It's people like you who have bastardised words like "Decimate" to give it an erroneous popular meaning!

Well technically it still holds the essence of the word. The reason the term "decimate" is so important is because 10% loss where people start feeling it psychologically.

"Beating people so bad they feel it" is in essence decimation. Even if you aren't taking down 10% of their troops.

"You're the first person I've seen to spell it as 'click'."

Well I've never seen anyone pronounce it clique.
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Starver

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Re: Did your school have Clicks?
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2013, 04:02:19 am »

I actually came in wondering if we were going to be talking about a Film Club-type thing.  (Blame my interest in Discworld for that misunderstanding.)  However, it looks like I thought I'd say something anyway...

...and now back to your regularly scheduled programme.


(Also, Neo, When people use "Decimate" to mean "Annihilate" or something close to "destroy all but 10% of something" I cry inside...)
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weenog

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Re: Did your school have Clicks?
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2013, 04:04:25 am »

Haven't seen it pronounced "clique", or didn't know that "clique" has multiple pronunciations, one of which is identical with the wrong word "click"?
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Listen up: making a thing a ‼thing‼ doesn't make it more awesome or extreme.  It simply indicates the thing is on fire.  Get it right or look like a silly poser.

It's useful to keep a ‼torch‼ handy.

Starver

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Re: Did your school have Clicks?
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2013, 04:31:14 am »


Nothing to see here, and I shall try to shut up about this now.
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Skyrunner

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Re: Did your school have Clicks?
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2013, 06:41:47 am »

I've only seen it pronounced 'click' and written as 'clique'. Click seems to wrong to me, more reminiscent of a mouse click, or one kilometer. I dunno, writing 'click' as an alternative to 'clique' seems the same as writing 'cue' instead of 'queue'.

As for the topic: My short experience in a US high school seems to say that cliques are usually a few people instead of large topics like "the nerds" or "the jocks," though people on a varsity team like football kinda lump together. It's probably the same everywhere. 3~8 people lumping together for most purposes. O.o
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Leafsnail

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Re: Did your school have Clicks?
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2013, 06:55:19 am »

There were friendship groups and friends tended to have broadly similar interests, with a slight division based on social class, but I'm pretty sure cliques are a thing made up by movies
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Did your school have Clicks?
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2013, 07:26:52 am »

"You're the first person I've seen to spell it as 'click'."

Well I've never seen anyone pronounce it clique.
I originally thought you were talking about some standard unit of measurement, 'Did your school have 20 clicks?'

Mech#4

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Re: Did your school have Clicks?
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2013, 07:29:39 am »

"You're the first person I've seen to spell it as 'click'."

Well I've never seen anyone pronounce it clique.
I originally thought you were talking about some standard unit of measurement, 'Did your school have 20 clicks?'

"When I was your age I had to ride 20 clicks through the vacuum of space to get to school!" :P
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Did your school have Clicks?
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2013, 07:44:40 am »

"You're the first person I've seen to spell it as 'click'."

Well I've never seen anyone pronounce it clique.
I originally thought you were talking about some standard unit of measurement, 'Did your school have 20 clicks?'

"When I was your age I had to ride 20 clicks through the vacuum of space to get to school!" :P
Young man, we used to walk 20 kilometres through the vacuum of space, while fending off cliques of so-called "bleeding-edge linguists". We could not understand a word they said.
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Did your school have Clicks?
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2013, 08:14:03 am »

Chalk me up as another person who had no idea what this thread was about at first. This is the reason we spell different words differently - clarity!

Anyway, my school did have cliques, far less extreme than you see on TV but it had them. And since it had over 2,000 students and the average clique size was around 6-10 people... (usually centered around a 'personality' or specific interest, or both at once) it wasn't quite what you see on TV. Those small ones tended to be the more rigid and exclusive ones, but we also had larger cliques (of which the 'freaks' were by far the largest and basically dominated the school in every conceivable way after they managed to absorb and subsume the theatre and music cliques my first year there) but the larger a clique got generally the less exclusive it got as well.

Even then, oddly enough, I wasn't a freak. More of a floater, moving between the Freaks and several of the smaller groups. As far as I could tell, it mostly influenced who you stood with in the hallway before/after school, who you ate with during lunch, and whose parties you got invited too. There definitely seemed to be a sense of 'we stand up for our own so don't mess with us' in most of them.

I guess I see clicks as almost midway between strangers and a gang or an extended family, in a lot of ways. In my experience, it's more than just friends hanging out together - there's a shared sense of identity, and even if someone isn't your friend the fact that they are in your group sort of makes them friends-by-default even if you've never even spoken to them, at least as far as interacting with those outside the group is concerned.
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