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[tryrar]

Wow. Even with the list I'm completely lost on what is what

[Alexandria]

And some players haven't even voted yet.

[RAM]

Okay, voting...

Spoiler: Shortlist (click to show/hide)

I like 1, but I am not certain that it is time for it.
1.1 seems to be an attempt to sabotage 1, I dislike that calibre for reasons that the proposer of 1.1 themselves pointed out, and that it is a bit light for my tastes. I really want to keep my howitzers super-massive and rely on mortars for lighter issues.
Yeah, R.A.D.A.R. is difficult to argue with, although I suspect that it is a bit early, which will likely raise the price a good deal.
But eww, I want to diversify our engineers to get experts in various fields.
I guess I will vote for 3c, we need something with long range to hunt submarines, and once it is built I can work on a cruiser to deal with surface ships.
Some version of 4 might be handy, but they appear to be a deliberate attempt to punish me and would murder my baby, so I can't vote for them.
I still have no idea what 5.1 is.
6 seems way too heavy for our current needs.
7 insults my sensitive calibre prejudices, and doesn't seem needed just yet, I will give it a year for the arguments to die down.
The 7 subsidiaries also offend my calibre prejudices(Although, to be fair, I am pretty sensitive, I would be troubled by a 60mm gun...), or seem like they would require too many field replacements to be cost-effective. Although I could see it working if we knew that we were going to lose most of a specific class of tank and we could just make the whole thing expendable...
8: erm... I suppose it makes a lot of sense, can't argue against it, and seems to be the right time for it too, although we will need it mounted on something mobile soon.
8.1: I see this as more of an area-denial device, I could live with low-velocity, although it will need range which isn't going to spring forth from the ether...
9: I would rather something anti-tank, and my ethical proposal, while obviously dead, is still binding for me, so I would prefer something anti-tank, which this will probably lack the manoeuvrability to do well. But still, I am fond of extremes, so this and the medium are a bit of a toss-up, and I could certainly see the advantage of a flying katyusha...
I do love me an airship.
These things are useless against moving targets, have no evasive ability at all, and probably massive resource hogs. Generally against, although I do love a super-weapon...
RPG-8 sounds like fun, but I just don't see the need right now. It would probably be complicated and we do have hand-grenades and mortars already...
I already have a supportive vote in my modification, and the incendiary bomb thing sounds like it would just have too many risks associated with starting uncontrolled fires that could back-fire on us or go off at an inopportune time. This would apply to any bomb really, but I could see pilots being reckless about where they drop their fuel tanks in ways that they wouldn't be with bombs and the fuel tanks having engineering challenges with their release mechanisms that wouldn't exist with bombs.
Radios sound useful.
I am somewhat against future-tech, and I built the research lab for exactly this purpose, so that we can randomly get exciting things...
AAAARGH!!!! FUTURE TECH WITH IRRITATING CALIBRE, MY NEMESIS IS UPON ME!!!
Hrmm, I really love me an airship, and it could make an effective envoy over open ocean until aircraft carriers show up, but I am really trying to limit my votes... Just missed the cut, I had to get down to 6 votes : (
Now this, this is what the badger would be good for, and we don't really have an engineering vehicle, but is this the one?

Vote:
Design: 2, 03.3, 8, 10, 14, 20
9.2s: try to design it so it could carry its entire payload in rockets.

Production: C, E, F, I, J, L, M, N, P.

Political: pffbrrtspspspuhhhh


And a political proposal:
d: Adopt the following guidelines for our naval units:
Designation: purpose.
 Carrier: Provides mobile docking facilities for other craft/ provides support facilities to coordinate other craft.
 Battleship: Territory control/ long-range bombardment.
 Cruiser: Naval superiority/ large ship destruction.
 Destroyer: Protection of other ships in fleet/ small ship destruction.
 Frigate: Operating outside of major fleets/ special purpose ships that would be transferred between fleets based upon specific fleet operations.
 Corvette: Military ships used for non-combat/light-combat roles.
 Boat: Shallow water operations/ operating without formal docking facilities.
Examples would include:
Battleship: A massive, nigh-invulnerable ship capable of shooting anything it can see and many things it can't, a medium ship with a massive gun that plods around in friendly waters providing mobile heavy artillery against land targets and surface ships.
Cruiser: A fast, lightly armoured ship with long-ranged guns designed to control its range and destroy ships from a distance, a fast, moderately armoured ship with an array of tactical and anti-surface-ship weapons designed to create concealment, close with enemy vessels, and destroy/disable them at close range.
Destroyer: A slow ship with a large number of heavy, long-ranged antiaircraft guns designed to provide a mobile air-defence screen, a fast submarine hunter designed to engage submarines before they can engage more valuable or less well-defended vessels and to guarantee the destruction of any submarines that do manage to engage.
Frigate: A ship with a wide array of equipment capable of patrolling in small groups engaging any target that is over-specialised or significantly out-weighed, a heavily armoured shore-bombardment vessel with many lighter-calibre guns to provide close-support to landings.
Corvette: A small, fast ship with minimal armaments for transporting supplies without being detected, a very fast ship with light torpedoes designed to cripple merchant vessels in hit-and-run attacks against their propellers and rudders.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

Misc:
RAM-Engineers: optical, automated mechanism, ergonomics, social.
10e-Engineers: chemist, 2 electronic, aerospaceengineer

Design:
try-01: self-propelled field gun
Ukr,try,3_1,adw-01.1s: 115mm Howitzer for Cricket(seems unrelated)
try,Tar,10e,3_1,adw,RAM-02: R.A.D.A.R.
Ukr,3_1-02.1s: hire 4 electricians(as the engineer allocation.)
RAM-03: Continue Destroyer and radio projects.
try-03.1c: Glare reduction sights
-03.2c:[try] upgrade recon balloon
try,RAM-03.3c: Destroy all workers!
try-03.4c: squad radios.
RAM-04: Twin-bi-dual-plane *addendum=105 degree wings
try-04.1s: Twin engined bomber.(seems to have little relation...)
Ukr,try,10e,fun-04.2s: Fighter plane(completely unrelated)
3_1,sta,adw-04.2.1s: wing mountings.
RAM-04.3s: Cover and air.
Tar,adw-05.1s:? (might be 4.1) okay, 2 votes, I missed something? I double-checked between 4 and 6...
Tar,adw-06: 'medium' tank chassis.
Tar,try,10e,3_1,adw-07: Heavy tank cannon.
Ukr-07.1c: cheap HVG-40 (basically unrelated, but both antitank guns...)
Ukr-07.2c: 55mm antitank gun
Ukr,10e,RAM-08: 80mm anti-aircraft.
try-08.1s: High velocity
Ukr,10e-09: heavy bomber.
try-09.1s: medium
RAM-9.2s: Rocketses!
10e,try,Bro,RAM-10: carrier airship
10e,try-11: massive static guns.
Bro,sta-12: automatic grenade-launcher.
Bro,sta-13: drop-pod+incendiary bomb.
RAM-13.1s: no bomb
mes,adw,try,RAM-14: continue radio project.
mes-15: synthetic polymers.
Ale,adw-16: 7.62mm rifle round.
Ale-17: 7.62mm assault rifle.
che-18: Diplomatic/cargo airship.
-19: sanity
adw,RAM-20: engineer vehicle?

Production:
try,fun-A: Heavy armoured vehicles(K-1 and BattleBus)
try,fun-A.1s: With 400kw diesel engines.(May require a design proposal.)
Ukr,10e,3_1,sta-A.2s: K-1 and Crickets. With single diesel-(designish)
try,Tar,10e-B: Popular Devotion ASW escorts.(more political than production)
try,Tar,RAM-C: Submarines.
try-C.1s: name "Lionfish Class Attack-"
Ukr,10e-C.2s: Convert righteous production to submarines.
try,Tar-D: Home port defence.(political)
RAM,10e-E: Airships and fighters
try,10e,RAM-F: new shipyards or double capacity.
try,10e-G: Install new engines into larger ships(could be design).
try,Tar,fun-H: Major refit of Glorious in drydock to use new weapons and engines(also designish).
Tar,try,10e,RAM-I: SVA-10 and ASh-30(smg) instead of mosins.
Tar,try,10e,3_1,sta,RAM-J: Educational facilities.
Tar,try,10e,3_1,sta-K: Military training facilities.
Ukr,10e,fun,RAM-L,: Paratroops.
10e,try,RAM-M: airship names "People's Eye", "People's Guardian"
10e,try,RAM-N: Inspirational, if obvious, airships.
10e-O: airships
10e,3_1,sta,RAM-P: Office
3_1,sta,?Tar-Q: Zephyr instead of Wolverine and Feather.
3_1?Tar-Q(duplicated):produce Cricket instead of Battlebus
Ale-R: Semi-auto pistol and R.P.G.

Political:
RAM-a: Ethical statement.
RAM-b: Declare war against Capia.
Ukr-c: Surprise attack against Capia.
RAM-d: Ship reclassification.


[3_14159]

Now, I'm going to vote, too, and I'm going to introduce two other proposals, both for rockets with different specs.

Proposal 21) Design a rocket of the following qualities: Try reaching ca. 120kg, ca. 40kg of explosives, and try reaching 8km range with the best possible accuracy. Make the warhead changeable between HE and incendiary. Design a mount for the Cricket Halftrack Something like 50% hit in a 100m radius circle, and 90% in a 200m radius circle? That should be reachable, as it is circa the accuracy and range of the nebelwerfer.
Edited clarification: The weight, warhead and range are suggestions; the accuracy are only thoughts on what we can reach
The idea is to provide mobile artillery power with a massive alpha-strike capability. Augmenting let's say 20 tanks with 10 rocket crickets will give them the ability to rain something like 60-120 rockets at once. That should shatter the enemy's defences, even if they are behind the front where normal artillery can't follow.

Proposal 22) Design a rocket of about 50kg with about half to a third of that warhead and able to be launched from our new monowing fighter
This should provide us with air support that's better targetable. Unlike bombs, you can fire them from further away, and unlike ground-based artillery you can fire them line-of-sight.

I would also really, really like proximity fuses, but until the RADAR is finished will not propose so.

Additionally, votes:
I vote for: 13.1, 14, I
Plus, vote for Warplan C: Surprise attack

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

Design:
try-01: self-propelled field gun
Ukr,try,3_1,adw-01.1s: 115mm Howitzer for Cricket(seems unrelated)
try,Tar,10e,3_1,adw,RAM-02: R.A.D.A.R.
Ukr,3_1-02.1s: hire 4 electricians(as the engineer allocation.)
RAM-03: Continue Destroyer and radio projects.
try-03.1c: Glare reduction sights
-03.2c:[try] upgrade recon balloon
try,RAM-03.3c: Destroy all workers!
try-03.4c: squad radios.
RAM-04: Twin-bi-dual-plane *addendum=105 degree wings
try-04.1s: Twin engined bomber.(seems to have little relation...)
Ukr,try,10e,fun-04.2s: Fighter plane(completely unrelated)
3_1,sta,adw-04.2.1s: wing mountings.
RAM-04.3s: Cover and air.
Tar,adw-05.1s:? (might be 4.1) okay, 2 votes, I missed something? I double-checked between 4 and 6...
Tar,adw-06: 'medium' tank chassis.
Tar,try,10e,3_1,adw-07: Heavy tank cannon.
Ukr-07.1c: cheap HVG-40 (basically unrelated, but both antitank guns...)
Ukr-07.2c: 55mm antitank gun
Ukr,10e,RAM-08: 80mm anti-aircraft.
try-08.1s: High velocity
Ukr,10e-09: heavy bomber.
try-09.1s: medium
RAM-9.2s: Rocketses!
10e,try,Bro,RAM-10: carrier airship
10e,try-11: massive static guns.
Bro,sta-12: automatic grenade-launcher.
Bro,sta-13: drop-pod+incendiary bomb.
RAM, 3_1-13.1s: no bomb
mes,adw,try,RAM, 3_1-14: continue radio project.
mes-15: synthetic polymers.
Ale,adw-16: 7.62mm rifle round.
Ale-17: 7.62mm assault rifle.
che-18: Diplomatic/cargo airship.
-19: sanity
adw,RAM-20: engineer vehicle?

Production:
try,fun-A: Heavy armoured vehicles(K-1 and BattleBus)
try,fun-A.1s: With 400kw diesel engines.(May require a design proposal.)
Ukr,10e,3_1,sta-A.2s: K-1 and Crickets. With single diesel-(designish)
try,Tar,10e-B: Popular Devotion ASW escorts.(more political than production)
try,Tar,RAM-C: Submarines.
try-C.1s: name "Lionfish Class Attack-"
Ukr,10e-C.2s: Convert righteous production to submarines.
try,Tar-D: Home port defence.(political)
RAM,10e-E: Airships and fighters
try,10e,RAM-F: new shipyards or double capacity.
try,10e-G: Install new engines into larger ships(could be design).
try,Tar,fun-H: Major refit of Glorious in drydock to use new weapons and engines(also designish).
Tar,try,10e,RAM, 3_1-I: SVA-10 and ASh-30(smg) instead of mosins.
Tar,try,10e,3_1,sta,RAM-J: Educational facilities.
Tar,try,10e,3_1,sta-K: Military training facilities.
Ukr,10e,fun,RAM-L,: Paratroops.
10e,try,RAM-M: airship names "People's Eye", "People's Guardian"
10e,try,RAM-N: Inspirational, if obvious, airships.
10e-O: airships
10e,3_1,sta,RAM-P: Office
3_1,sta,?Tar-Q: Zephyr instead of Wolverine and Feather.
3_1?Tar-Q(duplicated):produce Cricket instead of Battlebus
Ale-R: Semi-auto pistol and R.P.G.

Political:
RAM-a: Ethical statement.
RAM-b: Declare war against Capia.
Ukr, 3_1-c: Surprise attack against Capia.
RAM-d: Ship reclassification.


Edited in: Clarification for proposal 21

[kahn1234]

These are actually my proposals:

23) 94mm Dedicated AA gun Codename: ‘Whiplash’:
Target specifications:
Max range: 19,000m horizontal with a 15,240m ceiling
Muzzle velocity: 1067m/s
Rate of fire target: 12 rounds per minute at least
Traverse: 360 degrees
Elevation: -10 - +85
Carriage: Mobile and Static
Shell: Depends
Crew: as low as possible without sacrificing efficiency or RPM.
Weight: As low as possible without sacrificing anything.
Length: 5m
Barrel Length: 4.8m

Special features of design:

Fit it with a 114.3mm barrel lined down to 94mm, and using the 114.3mm size cartridge. Change the barrel to have graduated rifling: the rifling groove depth should decrease to zero over the last five calibres of the barrel before the muzzle. This should smooth the two driving bands of a new design shell giving reduced air resistance and hence better ballistic performance, and causing far less barrel wear.

Linked technology:
1.   An advanced AA predictor and AA sights.
2.   Various fuses for different ceilings


24) 88mm Howitzer Specification Codename: ‘LRA-88’
Weight: As low as possible without sacrificing anything
Length: 4.6m
Barrel Length: 4m
Width: 2.2m
Height: 1.2m
Crew: As low as possible without sacrificing efficiency and RPM
Shells: High explosive, Anti-Tank and Smoke.
Shell Weight: Depends
Breech: Horizontal semi-automatic sliding block
Recoil Compensation: Hydro-Pneumatic
Elevation: -10 to 70 degrees
Traverse: 360 degree
Carriage: Mobile and Static
Rate of fire: As high as possible, preferably over 10 RPM.
Muzzle velocity: As high as possible without increasing part wear.
Max Range: As high as possible.
Sights: Calibrating and reciprocating; artillery sights and predictors

25) 120mm Howitzer Specification Codename: ‘LRA-120’
Weight: As Low as possible without sacrificing anything
Length: 6m (with limber)
Barrel Length: 4m
Width: 2m
Height: 2m
Crew: As low as possible without sacrificing anything
Breech:  Horizontal semi-automatic sliding block\
Recoil: Hydro-pneumatic
Carriage: Split Trail
Elevation: -10 to 70 degrees
Traverse: 50 degrees
Rate of Fire: As high as possible, preferably over 10 RPM.
Max Range: As far as possible.
Sights: Advanced Artillery sights, calibrators and predictors.

26) Self Propelled Artillery Codename ‘SPLRA-150’ Nickname: ‘Slapper’:
Weight: As light as possible.
Length: 7.2m
Width: 4m
Height: 3m
Crew: 6 –Driver and 5 man arty crew
Armour: 10-20mm slightly slanted
Main armament: 150mm Howitzer + 20 rounds
Secondary Armament: 1x 14mm MG
Engine: 2x400Kw Diesel engines.
Suspension: Torsion Bar

26-A) 150mm Howitzer Codename: 'LRA-150' Nickname: 'Thumper':
Weight: As light as possible without sacrificing anything
Barrel Length: 5m
Breech: Horizontal Sliding Block
Recoil: Hydro-Pneumatic
Carriage: Split tail
Elevation: -10 to +70
Traverse: 65 degrees
Rate of Fire: As fast as possible, preferably 6 RPM
Muzzle Velocity: As high as possible.
Maximum range: As high as possible.

27) 60mm Recoilless rifle
Weight: As low as possible
Length: 2m
Crew: 1 (ideally)
Muzzle velocity: As high as possible and is effective.
Effective range: As high as possible.
Maximum range: As high as possible.
Sights: Telescopic sights + short range ring sights.

Yes, i know there are 5 proposals there, but they are needed and three extra isnt too much.

the 88mm Howitzer can be used on the armoured car as a light SPG.

And the 94mm AA gun is needed to support our hydras and 40mm AA guns to protect our towns, cities and complexes.

Plus the recoilless rifle would be great for paratroopers and infantry AT roles. Better than our current ones if done right.

[Brood]

Did you miss the part where it said 2 proposals per person?

[kahn1234]

Did you miss the part where it said 2 proposals per person?

Well, when i see people putting up '2' proposals with half a dozen 'amendments' below them, 5 clear cut proposals with most of the work done for them by me dont seem like much a problem.

[3_14159]

Yes, i know there are 5 proposals there, but they are needed and three extra isnt too much.

Yes, they honestly are too much. I know that as non-GM I have absolutely no authority on that, but that's just opening Pandora's Box.

For your proposals as such, the main thing I noticed are the differences in calibre. You've designed a 94/114.3mm AA artillery gun, an 88mm howitzer and a 150mm artillery piece.

88mm: We have an 80mm medium gun already. If you'd have designed a replacement for that, maybe. But I currently fail to see which added capabilities are worth the total chaos of our supply lines.
150mm: Again. We already have a 160mm artillery gun.
Why not design the weapons around the current calibre?

I'd propose, however, to transfer this discussion to the OOC thread.

[Nadaka]

Did you miss the part where it said 2 proposals per person?

Well, when i see people putting up '2' proposals with half a dozen 'amendments' below them, 5 clear cut proposals with most of the work done for them by me dont seem like much a problem.

That is too much. With as many people as have joined this game, I would never get done with an update if everyone put in 6 proposals.

The thing about modifications to a proposal? Only the one with the most votes is definitely going to go through.

[kahn1234]

Did you miss the part where it said 2 proposals per person?

Well, when i see people putting up '2' proposals with half a dozen 'amendments' below them, 5 clear cut proposals with most of the work done for them by me dont seem like much a problem.

That is too much. With as many people as have joined this game, I would never get done with an update if everyone put in 6 proposals.

The thing about modifications to a proposal? Only the one with the most votes is definitely going to go through.

Wouldn't that be the same with full proposals? Only the ones which get the required 3 votes go through?

[RAM]

4.3.1: I dare our engineering underlings to make my feeble paint skills and lack of forethought fly. I DARE them!

Spoiler: image (click to show/hide)

[/b]

13.2: Instead of liquid fuel, use solid fuel, and instead of feeding fuel into the engines, light a fire at the back and run away.

[tryrar]

....Ram are you even TRYING for serious proposals anymore?

[Taricus]

Annendum votes: 23 and 24

[Brood]

Vote for the following.

A, A.2, B, C, G, H, I, J, K, R
1, 4.1, 6, 7, 14, 15, 16, 17, 20

[10ebbor10]

....Ram are you even TRYING for serious proposals anymore?

Nope.

Edit: Anyway, I'd request everyone to please be polite, be somewhat serious, and follow the rules. Otherwise it'll result in a flamewar, and a locked thread. I'd rather not have that happen.

Did you miss the part where it said 2 proposals per person?

Well, when i see people putting up '2' proposals with half a dozen 'amendments' below them, 5 clear cut proposals with most of the work done for them by me dont seem like much a problem.

Rules are rules, and are not to be ignored.

Also, the difference is that only the subproposal with the most votes get's through, while all proposals with more than 3 votes get through. Meaning that well, all of your proposals can get through, and if we do that for everything, we end up with a gazillion proposals, and then the thread dies.