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Author Topic: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management  (Read 61698 times)

Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #600 on: May 08, 2013, 05:36:43 am »

andy_t_roo, We bassically lost naval war, that is a reason to start a land one where we have huge advantage due to huge investment in land forces\airforce
Let Morovia waste R&D and industry on navy, while we will go to them by land leaving their subs useless


Khan, why do you want to waste resources on a cruiser when we are raped by subs? Give them better target to sunk?kLet's admit that we lost naval war and go defensive! And build ASW ships (modifying  popular devotion for it is the easiest route )

Your plan to upgrade PD is deeply  flawed, you want to make it several times larger, basically designing new ship with size of Alexi that we'll build one per year.

We need many ships to cover larger area, we need ability to mine in defensive war, we need to fight subs by using depth charges, we need convoy escorts

ASW escort doesn't need  speed, it doesn't need armor. It needs sub detection and as much equipment to fight enemy subs as possible. And most importantly they need numbers!

Also, diplomacy with capitalistic pigs? Traitors!

Finnally, either unbold or renumber your proposals
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 05:53:45 am by Ukrainian Ranger »
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

RAM

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #601 on: May 08, 2013, 06:27:39 am »

just letting folk know, the previous update was only half a turn, no production or designs occurred, so the old proposals are still valid.

Do proposal modifications count against our two proposal limit?

Did I miss the it where it says what our military academy does.
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kahn1234

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #602 on: May 08, 2013, 06:29:51 am »

just letting folk know, the previous update was only half a turn, no production or designs occurred, so the old proposals are still valid.

Do proposal modifications count against our two proposal limit?

Did I miss the it where it says what our military academy does.

I dont think we have a military academy. we have an engineering school which gives us 4 engineering specialists per year.

Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #603 on: May 08, 2013, 06:35:24 am »

That's why i suggested to not post suggestions before second part of the turn, because situation changed

And I strongly advice to restart the voting now
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

RAM

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #604 on: May 08, 2013, 06:37:25 am »

The bit about the academy is in here somehwere...
3 supporting
9: Develop ship recovery equipment and try to raise sunken Morovian subs for analyzing should it be possible to raise them


6 engineers and 3 novice engineers are assigned to this task. It is about 2/3 of the way done with 1 flaw. 14

3 supporting
3: Develop reliable cameras usable by planes so we can scout out the enemy submarine pens for destruction.


2 to 3 support
24. Develop Q-ships...

you have no more engineers for these task.



4 supporting
16: Build a military academy for experienced soldiers to refine our tactics and teach recruits. For now it shall be a horrible mess of naval, aeronautical, infantry, and vehicular training for everyone from grunts to office staff.

105 novice workers assigned to this task, and complete it.

I'll add text later.
...
New Rule
No more than 2 proposals per person per year.

The after action report for this year will come in a day or two.

1: fight the defensive fight for now?
2: violate the territorial waters of Unnamed so our pt boats can reach Morovia?
3: attempt a risky deep water crossing with our PT boats.
4: march overland through Unnamed?
5: strike at Morovian naval assets with our limited deep water navy.

I don't really see that anything has changed in the latest update. We knew that they had lots of subs. We knew that big ships were not going to cut it. We knew that Righteouses were basically going to survive, as they are just too small to be worth the sub's effort. We knew that the subs weren't going to beat aircraft on a tonnage or crew basis. The only thing that the update did was give us a noble mandating any ship...

On that note.
21.2: I counter Propose that we should send 100 of our workers to the docks to build Alexi 1337 class vessels. Hopefuly they will keep the subs exposing themselves to righteouses and aircraft trying to hit what is a moderately resilient vessel.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 06:51:48 am by RAM »
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Brood

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #605 on: May 08, 2013, 06:52:06 am »

Yeah we may as well keep the votes but I have 1 additional proposals, it's kinda of a hail mary but it's worth the risk I think.

Additional war plan.
Send 32 special forces on a land journey into Morovia, once they arrive they are to attempt to infiltrate a naval yard and steal one of the new model submarines then bring it to our ship yards, try to keep enemy officers and engineers on board alive for information on enemy plans and how the sub works, they are to target the nearest navalyard to us and strike in 3 days. at the same time 100 feather biplanes are to atttack the enemy navalyard avoiding the subs.

(( They did this a few times in ww2, commandos raids to steal new tech and we are getting wrecked, so it's time for a desperate action thing and since we will expand our special forces this turn we can afford the loss of 32 if it goes wrong, but if it goes right then we gain our enemies strongest weapon.
We can afford to lose a few biplanes as well since we are replacing them now with better planes. ))
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 06:55:19 am by Brood »
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mesor

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #606 on: May 08, 2013, 06:58:33 am »


Additional war plan.
Send 32 special forces on a land journey into Morovia, once they arrive they are to attempt to infiltrate a naval yard and steal one of the new model submarines then bring it to our ship yards, try to keep enemy officers and engineers on board alive for information on enemy plans and how the sub works, they are to target the nearest navalyard to us and strike in 3 days. at the same time 100 feather biplanes are to atttack the enemy navalyard avoiding the subs.


+1, building a sub from scratch is hard, building it from the wrecked remains of one is difficult, building it from a fully functional one stolen in what will become a legendary commando raid? Thats fairly easy not to mention scaring your enemy out of his mind that you walked into his naval yard and stole his sub.
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kahn1234

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #607 on: May 08, 2013, 07:02:06 am »

Yeah we may as well keep the votes but I have 1 additional proposals, it's kinda of a hail mary but it's worth the risk I think.

Additional war plan.
Send 32 special forces on a land journey into Morovia, once they arrive they are to attempt to infiltrate a naval yard and steal one of the new model submarines then bring it to our ship yards, try to keep enemy officers and engineers on board alive for information on enemy plans and how the sub works, they are to target the nearest navalyard to us and strike in 3 days. at the same time 100 feather biplanes are to atttack the enemy navalyard avoiding the subs.

(( They did this a few times in ww2, commandos raids to steal new tech and we are getting wrecked, so it's time for a desperate action thing and since we will expand our special forces this turn we can afford the loss of 32 if it goes wrong, but if it goes right then we gain our enemies strongest weapon.
We can afford to lose a few biplanes as well since we are replacing them now with better planes. ))


+1 I'll vote for this too, but make sure our commandos only use the captured 6mm carbines in this raid. we dont want the enemy getting hold of our weaponry.

10ebbor10

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #608 on: May 08, 2013, 07:09:25 am »

Ok, wrap up.

We basically lost the naval battle. If we do any naval activity, it'll be limited to convoy escorts. The sonar has become ineffective. The enemy is becoming very bold, and well, the thing is too large to effectively defend against many attackers. So, I think we should limit the naval designs to a single ASW design, in order to have a token defense effort.

The real antisub effort will come from investements in our airforce. Aside from the obvious investements in fighters, we really need to work on airships. At this point, airship have multiple benefits. While they are quite slow (40-60 km/h) they have an incredible range( even early models could do 1000km+*). More importantly, they can do excellent naval spotting, and are rather good for subhunting. At this point, it's unlikely the enemy has develloped incendairy bullets, meaning that our airships are practically invulnerable.** We can use them to bomb too, but airships tend to be rather inaccurate at that. Nevertheless, the fact that they can just fly above any AA/planes makes them a very intimidating.

We will need to design a slightly larger version for that last task though, and if we do, I propose we also make a modification to use it as flying aircraft carrier. Dropping commandos beneath the enemy lines will give us a tremendous advantage.

*Theoretical, of course. Weather conditions are not always optimal, and such
**Bullets go straight through, and internal pressure is not much higher than external.

Send 32 special forces on a land journey into Morovia, once they arrive they are to attempt to infiltrate a naval yard and steal one of the new model submarines then bring it to our ship yards, try to keep enemy officers and engineers on board alive for information on enemy plans and how the sub works, they are to target the nearest navalyard to us and strike in 3 days. at the same time 100 feather biplanes are to atttack the enemy navalyard avoiding the subs.
I propose we delay it to the end of the turn. Much of our commando gear gets finished then. (Gliders to tow them in easily, shaped charges to sabotage the other submarines kept in the same pen, ...)
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RAM

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #609 on: May 08, 2013, 07:14:15 am »

Send 32 special forces on a land journey into Morovia, once they arrive they are to attempt to infiltrate a naval yard and steal one of the new model submarines then bring it to our ship yards, try to keep enemy officers and engineers on board alive for information on enemy plans and how the sub works, they are to target the nearest navalyard to us and strike in 3 days. at the same time 100 feather biplanes are to atttack the enemy navalyard avoiding the subs.
What exactly is the plan for getting them there? Will they be air-dropped? Should we send them by sea? Should they go around the intervening country? Do our aircraft have sufficient range? Are we giving orders to the military commanders now? Shouldn't we maintain control of the military academy, send a steady stream of engineers to make friends with the impressionable recruits and influential teachers by giving them the impression that their concerns are being addressed, and attempt to pin the blame of any setbacks on the leadership first? Should the special forces sneak through the unnamed country on foot? Should they try to disguise themselves? Are they going to be given any training to operate naval vessels first? These are the sorts of question I would like answers to before attempting such a bold plan.
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kahn1234

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #610 on: May 08, 2013, 07:44:07 am »

Send 32 special forces on a land journey into Morovia, once they arrive they are to attempt to infiltrate a naval yard and steal one of the new model submarines then bring it to our ship yards, try to keep enemy officers and engineers on board alive for information on enemy plans and how the sub works, they are to target the nearest navalyard to us and strike in 3 days. at the same time 100 feather biplanes are to atttack the enemy navalyard avoiding the subs.
What exactly is the plan for getting them there? Will they be air-dropped? Should we send them by sea? Should they go around the intervening country? Do our aircraft have sufficient range? Are we giving orders to the military commanders now? Shouldn't we maintain control of the military academy, send a steady stream of engineers to make friends with the impressionable recruits and influential teachers by giving them the impression that their concerns are being addressed, and attempt to pin the blame of any setbacks on the leadership first? Should the special forces sneak through the unnamed country on foot? Should they try to disguise themselves? Are they going to be given any training to operate naval vessels first? These are the sorts of question I would like answers to before attempting such a bold plan.

I assumed we insert them using a PT boat or two.

10ebbor10

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #611 on: May 08, 2013, 07:52:48 am »

I highly doubt the PT boats can make that voyage. It's a bit long, and we don't want our best men to drown.

Besides, the surroundings of the submarine pens will most likely be guarded against sea attacks.
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kahn1234

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #612 on: May 08, 2013, 07:55:02 am »

I highly doubt the PT boats can make that voyage. It's a bit long, and we don't want our best men to drown.

Besides, the surroundings of the submarine pens will most likely be guarded against sea attacks.

Air drop behind enemy lines.

Mind you, for that we need a long range heavy transport plane.....

and we cant go by land......yet.

Whilst i support the notion of a commando raid, we dont seem to have the means to do it.

10ebbor10

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #613 on: May 08, 2013, 07:59:25 am »

Hence my plan to delay it to the end of our design year. By that point we should have some gliders, and airships, and a whole lot of other interesting tech. (If people invest in it).

With a combination of these we should be able to reach them. Also, the airships make excellent scouts.
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Brood

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #614 on: May 08, 2013, 08:00:22 am »

A group of men can walk out of uniform, or if it's complete the glider. I'll update the plan tonight.
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