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Author Topic: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management  (Read 63671 times)

Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #615 on: May 08, 2013, 08:23:57 am »

I Hate the whole idea of turning it into spec ops simulator and discussions about tactics[/b]

Giving some advice like : "We as designers think that we can't outproduce  Morovia on sea and should bring the war to land , by attacking our neighbour ", or - "please, try to get plans of the Morovian subs", but going as far as choosing exact tactics(not strategy) and numbers is against the spirit of the game
Yep, I was the one who started the war plan and it was my mistake, should have written just = Die to our inability to win a pure naval war, attack the neighbor to get to Morovia, include Pearl Harbor like attack on the naval base of the neighbor letting generals to decide specifics

Also, as anyone prefers to use RAM's renumbering (that turn is quite chaotic.... Think that restart in voting just to clear the chaos is a big enough reason) 

any I really ask for one more vote for  popular devotion remake. 9 In RAM's numbering
We need damned ASW ships way more than bulletproof vests and supressors! My latter version is somewhat better made but original is fine for me, too( BTW, didn't brood +1ed  Popular Devotion rework?)

Also, I really dislike that GM will have to do with a lot of designs again, that put's too much work on him...

GM, I do think that number of design votes should be strictly limited for your sanity... We have 7 voted designs and several close to get voted. That's insanity! Limit would make people to think twice before voting for stuff like small arms suppressors.
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

kahn1234

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #616 on: May 08, 2013, 08:25:12 am »

as long as my tank based ideas go through i dont mind.

Brood

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #617 on: May 08, 2013, 08:42:14 am »

And would result in the same people always winning, a hard limit would kill the game.
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10ebbor10

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #618 on: May 08, 2013, 09:21:18 am »

Oh, just a note, I propose we start the construction of a small airship launching dock. Won't cost much workforce.


Spoiler (click to show/hide)
[/quote]
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Nadaka

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #619 on: May 08, 2013, 09:52:47 am »

just letting folk know, the previous update was only half a turn, no production or designs occurred, so the old proposals are still valid.

Do proposal modifications count against our two proposal limit?

Did I miss the it where it says what our military academy does.

i have not set a limit on modofications at this time, we will see how that impacts my level of effort
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Nadaka

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #620 on: May 08, 2013, 10:24:00 am »

also 10ebbers10 mentioned that sonar has failed, it has not, it simply has not been deployed yet..
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Take me out to the black, tell them I ain't comin' back...
I don't care cause I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me...

I turned myself into a monster, to fight against the monsters of the world.

10ebbor10

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #621 on: May 08, 2013, 10:34:05 am »

also 10ebbor10 mentioned that sonar has failed, it has not, it simply has not been deployed yet..
I just meant that the situation in which it would have been most usefull is gone now. It's machinery intended to hunt down individual, stealthy submarines. It's heavy, large and requires a largish ship to be mounted on. Meanwhile, the enemy is attacking with many submarines, and not being really subtle about it. The size of the thing forms a major weakness, and well, we don't  need the ability to pick out the exact location of a single sub.

What we really need is a system to find if there are any subs in the general area, and maybe some vague hints about their locations. Our weapons aren't precise enough to use our detailed tracking anyway, and the frequent explosions will jam (or even destroy) the sonar. A lighter general detection system would have been more usefull, as it could be mounted on the PT boats. Still, the war at sea is for most purposes lost. At this point, it's mostly airsupport that's going to make a difference. The sonar ships are to easy to escape, or when split up, overwhelmed.

Edit: On another note, maybe someone should try to make a hydrophone. It's a simple thing, basically an underwater microphone. However, it let us pick up the sound of their propellers, and with a little practice, guess the distance and even the type of submarine.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 11:11:54 am by 10ebbor10 »
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #622 on: May 08, 2013, 10:55:48 am »

I agree with 10ebbor10. We lost our naval war. We need years to fix the situation (if we neglect other areas of our army)because Morovia makes more and more subs. Of cause, they can't launch amphibioius on us, airforce and coastal will stop them but they will hurt our economy a lot

Morovia clearly outproduces us, I think our only chance to win is to attack via land. Also I want to attack via land because 2\3 of designs are land based anyway... whatever situation is

And still we need sonar ship for our convoys and to reduce surprise of sub attacks\making ambushes less likely.

10ebbor10, Did you really vote for my Popular Devotion and ship recovering equipment? Can't find a bold vote from you
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

10ebbor10

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #623 on: May 08, 2013, 11:00:21 am »

I just added it in that list thingy.

Vote for 5,6,7,8,9,10,17,24

Btw: 24. Construction of airship launching dock and small scale production/storage facility.

PN: Do we have any long range bombers? If not, then finishing the airship bomber needs to be a priority. Basically, I doubt we can win this war. However, if we can design a functional airship, and start bombing their cities (Or threathen too, because airship bombers aren't very accurate) we might persuade them to broker a peace. (With us keeping the conquered lands.)

The Idea of an unstoppable, unfightable enemy ship looming over your cities is quite threathening.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #624 on: May 08, 2013, 11:13:29 am »

Airship are not unstoppable... The are too easy to shot down both by fighters and by powerful AA artillery.

I doubt that we can win such war even with a fleet of heavy bombers, that's not easy task to do - make enemy capitulate by bombing. It's a very huge advantage to fight air war over own territory.

I am adamant that our only way to win that war - push through the neighbor and turn our war into a land one. Besides I want a land war... We'll get no chance for amphibious assault for years that means our current land weapons will not see combat until badly obsolete
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

Nadaka

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #625 on: May 08, 2013, 11:21:07 am »

morovvia has somewhere in the range of 4-5k tons worth of ship yard dedicated to subs. to produce the 40ish subs encountered over the last 3 years.. the loss of 10 subs in their attack means they also lost 1/3 of their naval power.
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Take me out to the black, tell them I ain't comin' back...
I don't care cause I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me...

I turned myself into a monster, to fight against the monsters of the world.

tryrar

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #626 on: May 08, 2013, 11:34:28 am »

.....ok then, and we DIDN'T lose 1/3 of our naval power(though the alexi getting hurt like that is a bit of a blow, and we DO need that glorious repaired ASAP).

I Vote 9. We need to get subhunters ASAP so we can destroy the rest of them

Also: I'm withdrawing my vote for 11, 12 , 13. I forgot those were in my blanket agreement, and I'm not liking those

I'm still for the land attack, mainly for the reasons of not having any long range amphibious craft to attack them with
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This fort really does sit on the event horizon of madness and catastrophe
No. I suppose there are similarities, but I'm fairly certain angry birds doesn't let me charge into a battalion of knights with a car made of circular saws.

10ebbor10

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #627 on: May 08, 2013, 11:39:14 am »

Airship are not unstoppable... The are too easy to shot down both by fighters and by powerful AA artillery.

I doubt that we can win such war even with a fleet of heavy bombers, that's not easy task to do - make enemy capitulate by bombing. It's a very huge advantage to fight air war over own territory.

I am adamant that our only way to win that war - push through the neighbor and turn our war into a land one. Besides I want a land war... We'll get no chance for amphibious assault for years that means our current land weapons will not see combat until badly obsolete
At this point in time, neither is true. Our airships flight ceiling should be far above the range of their AA artillery, and as they don't have igniting bullets (they shouldn't anyway) their fighters will be useless too (We probably can fly above these too). Pressure inside the balloon is only marginally higher than pressure outside, so leaks are inconsequential, and most ships carry a small reserve of gas.

Quote
The Zeppelins were initially immune to attack by aircraft and antiaircraft guns: as the pressure in their envelopes was only just higher than ambient air, holes had little effect. But once incendiary bullets were developed and used against them, their flammable hydrogen lifting gas made them vulnerable at lower altitudes

And yeah, the bombardement isn't going to force them to surrender*. But that, combined with our rapidly advancing army, might be just the thing we need to avoid a 2 country war.

*Maybe we can dump phamplets. Spread the revolution around.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 11:40:53 am by 10ebbor10 »
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #628 on: May 08, 2013, 11:47:38 am »

What, they lost 10 subs!!!?
I see, I misread that:

Quote
In the end they are spotted by a mixed wing of feathers and Wolverines. Overconfident they get to close and the subs open fire with a 12 mm HMG from their conning towers, destroying 3 aircraft. However, in the end they where overwealmed and destroyed.
Somehow I assumed that all aircrafts of the wing were destroyed, should read better....

In fact after the words of the  GM I am more optimistic. If we'll produce some sonar equipped ships, get those airships and more aircrafts it will be not that serious treat. Still I think that land war is beneficial for us as we have very formidable armor, especially with addition of K-1s and air support from our airforce
And I want Pearl Harbopur against other  nation before their navy joins in a war with us as our own Navy is geared to anti-sub role and proper
surface navy can bite seriously us in open seas (but I am confident that our coastal batteries, Righteous boats and airforce make any attempt to go close to our shores a suicide for any non-submarine ship)
_________________________

Quote
At this point in time, neither is true.
We are in 1930 equivalent . Proper AA artillery exist, that's not 1914. And fighters with incendary 12mm machineguns exist too. As for extreme ceiling,problem of lack of oxygen for engines and pilots are shared both for airships and fighters

Here are some basic info about real world airship bombers and why they didn't work as intended:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_was_wrong_with_the_Zeppelin_airships_in_world_war_one
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 12:04:02 pm by Ukrainian Ranger »
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

10ebbor10

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Re: The revolutionary design bureau, under new management
« Reply #629 on: May 08, 2013, 12:08:37 pm »

Quote
At this point in time, neither is true.
We are in 1930 equivalent . Proper AA artillery exist, that's not 1914. And fighters with incendary 12mm machineguns exist too. As for extreme ceiling,problem of lack of oxygen for engines and pilots are shared both for airships and fighters

Here are some basic info about real world airship bombers and why they didn't work as intended:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_was_wrong_with_the_Zeppelin_airships_in_world_war_one
Though the timeframe was earlier. Still, it's a decent propaganda weapon, and should work against submarines.
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