Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: problems with marksmen  (Read 500 times)

PDF urist master

  • Bay Watcher
  • Born from cold iron
    • View Profile
problems with marksmen
« on: April 26, 2013, 03:46:55 pm »

these are by far the most dangerous enemies you'll face. simply because of their ranged ability.

i have a group of (mostly elite) marksdwarves to fight at equal footing with them. i have a wall to protect my dwarves from arrows, and fortifications to protect my crossbowmen from unskilled marksmen.

Layout:  F                                     F: fortification W: Wall
              W

my main problem is with elite marksdwarves. they can shoot past my fortifications and hit my dwarves. is there any defense design to stop them?
Logged
We are not evil by choice, but evil by necessity.

Raphite1

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • Beards and Brimstone
Re: problems with marksmen
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2013, 04:23:40 pm »

The might of a military dwarf is in his axe, hammer, sword, mace, or spear. Marksdwarves behind fortifications can only hide and cower as they die.

Build a checkerboard of walls between your military and the enemy bowmen. The enemy cannot shoot past the obstructions, and so must zig-zag through and then engage your dwarves hand-to-hand on the far side.

They will cry out in despair at their folly; they brought no proper weapon to the battle, and they will die by bludgeon and by blade.

DWC

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: problems with marksmen
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2013, 07:12:00 pm »

Marksdwarves are useful because they can shoot without exposing themselves to much danger, the range they can shoot is marginalized by how slow they fire and how fast the enemy can move and also, enemy elite bowmen.

That in mind, I'd consider carving fortifications inside the fortress entrance, with a switchback, with a trench in front to keep the crappier enemy archers from retailating (which if dug at least two levels deep and some upright spikes at the bottom can make for a dodge trap). This way the marksdwarves will open fire at close range, they will hit more often and they are better protected because no enemy archers can fire back from any long range angle and by the time they can, the enemy is too busy getting shot to death or dodging into the trench.
Logged

PDF urist master

  • Bay Watcher
  • Born from cold iron
    • View Profile
Re: problems with marksmen
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2013, 07:56:00 pm »

i don't think enemy archers can fight back against my fortifications. non accomplished archers can't shoot through fortfications unless they're one tile next to it, which is always true for my marksdwarves due to the design.

enemy elites can shoot from trenches and even with all the dodging i think they can still get a few shots off (which is not pleasant)

i'm also think about attack orders. if i move my markdwarves away from the fortications and then order them to kill the elite, will they get distracted by the other invaders?
Logged
We are not evil by choice, but evil by necessity.

Victor6

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: problems with marksmen
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2013, 04:00:16 am »

Drawbridges are your friends here; place thin ones in front of your fortifications and raise them to create walls if you see an elite bowman coming. If they can't see a dwarf they'll happily wander past into the death traps.
Logged

Maklak

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: problems with marksmen
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2013, 07:07:10 am »

Defensive skills and armour are always good, even on marksdwarves. Armour penalty can be offset by armour user, dodge can help (but they will dodge in the wrong direction and fall off the wall, weapon skill sometimes lets them parry and most of all, shields are a lifesaver. It seems that you can assign everyone a whole bunch of shields and they stack.
Logged
Quote from: Omnicega
Since you seem to criticize most things harsher than concentrated acid, I'll take that as a compliment.
On mining Organics
Military guide for FoE mod.
Research: Crossbow with axe and shield.
Dropbox referral

Werdna

  • Bay Watcher
  • Mad Overlord
    • View Profile
Re: problems with marksmen
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2013, 10:50:24 pm »

i'm also think about attack orders. if i move my markdwarves away from the fortications and then order them to kill the elite, will they get distracted by the other invaders?

Won't work.  They will head in the direction of the kill target, but engage the first enemy they see.

I use large animals, in pens hidden behind raised drawbridges.  Drop the drawbridge to reveal the animals, then bring your marksmen in as the enemy is trying to down the animals.  The enemy will waste time and ammo on your livestock, while you whittle them down.  With clever fort design, you can also open a path for your melee to safely approach - they will make short work of ranged enemies, if you can get them into melee range safely while the enemy is occupied.

The trick is to either use large animals, or many many animals, to soak as much enemy ammo as possible.
Logged
ProvingGrounds was merely a setback.

Catsup

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: problems with marksmen
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2013, 11:12:56 pm »

i'm also think about attack orders. if i move my markdwarves away from the fortications and then order them to kill the elite, will they get distracted by the other invaders?
yea as mentioned above marksdwarves target all hostiles in an attack order, even if they must kill all the undead before targeting a necromancer that accidentally got into your pit.

i tend to let goblins run into my cage maze and get caged if a elite ranger is leading them. If i absolutely must engage them then i pit my thralled cyclops or giant and let them loose against the goblins outside, caging them when im done using cage traps.

PDF urist master

  • Bay Watcher
  • Born from cold iron
    • View Profile
Re: problems with marksmen
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2013, 03:35:32 pm »

one of my main problems with traps is that the goblins have way too many meat shields and often the elite marksmen makes out unscathed. i'm going to invest in more traps
Logged
We are not evil by choice, but evil by necessity.