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No

46 (82.1%)

Total Members Voted: 53

[Graknorke]

That the clone is also the person from before the transfer.
Some people don't seem to want to accept that because of whatever way they have constructed their perception of reality.

"Some people have a different idea than me about something none of us know for certain, so they're wrong."

If you have two completely identical people and you kill one, is that person not dead? Is there not one instead of two now?

I don't want to die. How can it be more simple?

Because you are both of the identical people.

Also I said that I am rehashing it because people do not accept it; I never even said that they were wrong.

[Lysabild]

Because you are both of the identical people.

Obviously not, when one is dead and will never be able to experience anything while the other is free to live and experience.

[MagmaMcFry]

That the clone is also the person from before the transfer.
Some people don't seem to want to accept that because of whatever way they have constructed their perception of reality.

I don't want to die. How can it be more simple?

Please unambiguously explain to me why you don't want to die.

Because you are both of the identical people.

Obviously not, when one is dead and will never be able to experience anything while the other is free to live and experience.

They are different bodies, but identical minds. The memories never died.

[Catsup]

Thing is, I think that 'self' IS my memories and physical body. There is nothing about me that cannot be copied. Therefore, what makes me me?

say for example there are 2 identical twins with the exact personalities as each other, what difference is there between the 2?

the difference is that although the 2 twins have the same personality and thought process and would likely react the same way to stimulus, they will not always do so in exactly the same way as each other. There is something individually unique to each one of them that cannot be cloned or copied.

[MagmaMcFry]

Thing is, I think that 'self' IS my memories and physical body. There is nothing about me that cannot be copied. Therefore, what makes me me?

say for example there are 2 identical twins with the exact personalities as each other, what difference is there between the 2?

the difference is that although the 2 twins have the same personality and thought process and would likely react the same way to stimulus, they will not always do so in exactly the same way as each other. There is something individually unique to each one of them that cannot be cloned or copied.

Er, we're living in a hypothetical situation here, where those individually unique aspects CAN be copied. But this individual uniquity of these twins is the part where they have different memories, therefore different minds. Once you kill a twin, this memory is lost forever, and a twin has no reason not to object to being culled. Now could you please just accept that this situation here doesn't produce twins, but two times the exact same mind?

[Gamerlord]

Thing is, I think that 'self' IS my memories and physical body. There is nothing about me that cannot be copied. Therefore, what makes me me?

say for example there are 2 identical twins with the exact personalities as each other, what difference is there between the 2?

the difference is that although the 2 twins have the same personality and thought process and would likely react the same way to stimulus, they will not always do so in exactly the same way as each other. There is something individually unique to each one of them that cannot be cloned or copied.

Their precise physical makeups and memories would not be identical. And dammit, that 'something individually unique' thing means you're gonna do the whole 'of course we have souls' thing, aren't you? I hate it when people do that.

[Lysabild]

Please unambiguously explain to me why you don't want to die.

Because if I am dead, I can't experience the world anymore.

They are different bodies, but identical minds. The memories never died.

So people with dementia don't posses minds?

[Gamerlord]

Please unambiguously explain to me why you don't want to die.

Because if I am dead, I can't experience the world anymore.

They are different bodies, but identical minds. The memories never died.

So people with dementia don't posses minds?

What. Where the hell is that coming from?

[Scoops Novel]

What the hell are all of you rehashing? The obvious proclamation that you are not your clone has been made, repeatedly.

I see it as more obvious that you are, in fact, your clone, and this is what I am trying to convey this entire time.

My definition of "you", is the being who's death will end will your consciousness. They may also be yourself, for lack of a better term, and treated as such, but that's where my practical definition is.

[Scoops Novel]

Now if we could think of the question in more interesting ways?

[Kansa]

Er, we're living in a hypothetical situation here, where those individually unique aspects CAN be copied. But this individual uniquity of these twins is the part where they have different memories, therefore different minds. Once you kill a twin, this memory is lost forever, and a twin has no reason not to object to being culled. Now could you please just accept that this situation here doesn't produce twins, but two times the exact same mind?

But as soon as the clone experienced something different to the original it would be separate person, this is my main problem with this. If the clone lived something even a second differently it would have its own memories and therefore be a separate person. As soon as it experienced something different it would no longer be me it would be its own person and therefore no longer me

[Catsup]

Mind: Set of memories.

if this is the case, then you can already immortalize yourself by creating a computer program that responds to outside stimulus using your existing experiences. So go ahead and do that then kill yourself and give the computer 10 bucks, good luck.

Why would you believe that the world does not exist outside your cognitive capabilities? If you are already going to believe in a personally unverifiable assumption, then why not believe in what the evidence tells you, namely that the world has existed for some billion years already? Now you'll probably want to change your statement to:

ahh but you see my friend, the world has existed, the universe has existed, for immemorial. It is all meaningless. It may have well not existed because for all that time, all those trillions of years we were unborn and in darkness. There is nothing the world can give us. It may have well not been there until we were born.

Here's a further question: Assume you were disassembled and subsequently rebuilt with all the same particles in the exact same configuration. Would "you" still be "you"?

no, i believe you permanently died when the cells in your brain cannot function. Disassembling at the molecular level destroys the brain. Re-assembly creates a entirely new one.

[Scoops Novel]

I vote we lock the thread, or we stop being obsolete.

[Gamerlord]

Er, we're living in a hypothetical situation here, where those individually unique aspects CAN be copied. But this individual uniquity of these twins is the part where they have different memories, therefore different minds. Once you kill a twin, this memory is lost forever, and a twin has no reason not to object to being culled. Now could you please just accept that this situation here doesn't produce twins, but two times the exact same mind?

But as soon as the clone experienced something different to the original it would be separate person, this is my main problem with this. If the clone lived something even a second differently it would have its own memories and therefore be a separate person. As soon as it experienced something different it would no longer be me it would be its own person and therefore no longer me

BUT. That means that you are not the same person that you were a second ago. There is no 'me'.

[Kansa]

As long as it doesn't dissolve in completely flaming each other I think it is ok to keep it open even if we are going over the same points