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Total Members Voted: 53

[Kansa]

When the brain was cloned and placed into another mind at that point in time it would be identical, but as soon as that mind experiences something different to me it would become its own person and thus no longer me.

[Catsup]

That's because losing consciousness "generally" implies losing your mind as well (e.g. when dying). But those are only special cases. For god's sake, you are unconscious every damn night, yet you don't struggle to avoid that, and you don't struggle because you know that on the next morning, another consciousness will run on that mind.

and im arguing its impossible for multiple minds to share the same consciousness.

the consciousness that wakes up in the morning is the same one that went to rest when i fell asleep, and the same one that may have been dreaming when i was sleeping. Not some new one that replaced the one that died when i slept.

hopefully we diverge so he doesnt think like me.

I plan on pretending to cooperate with the guy so we can escape, us against the world, and then stabbing him through the heart when hes most vulnerable/unaware. Then i'll no longer need to run and hide, since there is no longer a duplicate, and one of us is dead.

Hint: This is his plan too.

yea i was hoping he'd diverge and change to be a better person during the time we spent together, or perhaps become bonded to me as a kindred spirit or soulmate.

Who knows maybe i'll be the weak one and let me guard down first...

i think i might cry after stabbing him, and he might just smile sadly and tell me to enjoy my life and freedom before dieing...goddammit

[Graknorke]

It would matter to me because I'd want it to be me. Since we'd both be conscious and the same person the self-preservation would be pretty awkward.

But both minds of those people in that cell are the same as the original. You want your mind to survive, since that is the only thing that matters, right? But the original's mind is in both bodies at the same time. Why would you need that mind to be in the body of the consciousness you are currently running?

Well, thing is that both would want to survive. Because self preservation. As far as I know, I'm not the kind of person who would just decide that someone should die, or that I should die for someone else. Good old human self-preservation doesn't really get suppressed very much by logic.

[Max White]

When the brain was cloned and placed into another mind at that point in time it would be identical, but as soon as that mind experiences something different to me it would become its own person and thus no longer me.

This is true.
Those few minutes in a room watching myself are an acceptable loss. It is when the clone and yourself have more unique experiences that the morality of the situation changes.

[Eric Blank]

Here's a thought experiment for everyone. Assume you are drugged, cloned, and you and your clone wake up naked and unlabeled in a windowless room. Could you find out which is the real you? Now you and your clone are tasked to agree on one of you that is to be killed (to avoid public duplicates). Would it matter to you which one of you you choose?

I, knowing how my brain generally functions, would agree with my clone that we're going to kill them, and claim it was self defense. Which it would be.

Every created being with a functional brain has its on individual consciousness that it will protect at all costs.

That's because losing consciousness "generally" implies losing your mind as well (e.g. when dying). But those are only special cases. For god's sake, you are unconscious every damn night, yet you don't struggle to avoid that, and you don't struggle because you know that on the next morning, another consciousness will run on that mind.

Actually, our brain does not shut down when we go to sleep. We are less active, and accept less and less input from our external senses, but we do not cease to think.

[DeKaFu]

Funny thing. I view my clone as having less value to me than myself because they're not "me". As a result, if aware that they were the clone, that clone would also consider themselves less valuable than me. If we were both conscious of who was the original and the clone, and one of us had to die, the clone would agree it should be them. It'd still be as traumatic as committing suicide/killing someone when you really don't want to, though.

[MagmaMcFry]

People get very attached to having a sense of self that is unique. This makes sense, as it reflects reality, but when you change the rules to allow for a 'perfect' clone some have trouble adapting to this new rule set.
Your clone is you, as much as you are. You need not fear non-existences.

The only thing I absolutely require is to have at least one conscionable copy of my mind being around somewhere. But hey, having a brain twin would be totally rad.

That's because losing consciousness "generally" implies losing your mind as well (e.g. when dying). But those are only special cases. For god's sake, you are unconscious every damn night, yet you don't struggle to avoid that, and you don't struggle because you know that on the next morning, another consciousness will run on that mind.

and im arguing its impossible for multiple minds to share the same consciousness.

the consciousness that wakes up in the morning is the same one that went to rest when i fell asleep, and the same one that may have been dreaming when i was sleeping. Not some new one that replaced the one that died when i slept.

Just to clarify, when I say "mind" I refer to a collection of memories, and when I say "consciousness" I refer to a thought process operating on memories. Duplicating a brain would therefore create two separate consciousnesses that happen to have had the same mind at cloning time.

[Max White]

I, knowing how my brain generally functions, would agree with my clone that we're going to kill them, and claim it was self defense. Which it would be.

Fun fact: Your clone is going to say the same thing after he kills you, knowing you were going to kill him. You are leaving it to a coin toss.
As civilized humans, we can surly find a better philosophy than 'The weak are meat and the strong do eat!', risking serious injury to both parties.

Would it not be better to just accept that somebody must die, and there is no reason to harm others in the process?

[MagmaMcFry]

Funny thing. I view my clone as having less value to me than myself because they're not "me".

Okay, let's name three yourselves: Pre-clone original, post-clone original, and clone. How would these three different minds value the post-clone original compared to the clone?

[Max White]

Consider the following:
We can not clone a human, but instead a universe. We make a perfect replica of this universe that mirrors ours exactly. Every event that happens in this universe, happens in that one. The result of a coin flip is the same in 100% of cases. Everything you will ever do, your clone will do the same.

Now, you are offered $10 to swap places with your universal clone. You live their life from now on, and they live yours. Would you take the money?

[Catsup]

Funny thing. I view my clone as having less value to me than myself because they're not "me". As a result, if aware that they were the clone, that clone would also consider themselves less valuable than me. If we were both conscious of who was the original and the clone, and one of us had to die, the clone would agree it should be them. It'd still be as traumatic as committing suicide/killing someone when you really don't want to, though.

they have as much value as another person, except they know all about you, they know how you feel, and you know how they feel and all about them.

They also dont know if their the clone or you're the clone, and neither do you...

Just to clarify, when I say "mind" I refer to a collection of memories, and when I say "consciousness" I refer to a thought process operating on memories. Duplicating a brain would therefore create two separate consciousnesses that happen to have had the same mind at cloning time.

yup, 2 separate consciousnesses with the same memory is very unlikely, but entirely possible if you have the technology.

[Catsup]

Consider the following:
We can not clone a human, but instead a universe. We make a perfect replica of this universe that mirrors ours exactly. Every event that happens in this universe, happens in that one. The result of a coin flip is the same in 100% of cases. Everything you will ever do, your clone will do the same.

Now, you are offered $10 to swap places with your universal clone. You live their life from now on, and they live yours. Would you take the money?

yes... but only if i lose my memory of taking the money and being swapped to the other universe

[Graknorke]

I, knowing how my brain generally functions, would agree with my clone that we're going to kill them, and claim it was self defense. Which it would be.

Fun fact: Your clone is going to say the same thing after he kills you, knowing you were going to kill him. You are leaving it to a coin toss.
As civilized humans, we can surly find a better philosophy than 'The weak are meat and the strong do eat!', risking serious injury to both parties.

Would it not be better to just accept that somebody must die, and there is no reason to harm others in the process?

Because there would be no way for two almost-identical minds to decide who should die. We wouldn't even be able to base it on who is the clone; if we actually cared bout that.
Plus a fight to the death is fair.

EDIT:

Consider the following:
We can not clone a human, but instead a universe. We make a perfect replica of this universe that mirrors ours exactly. Every event that happens in this universe, happens in that one. The result of a coin flip is the same in 100% of cases. Everything you will ever do, your clone will do the same.

Now, you are offered $10 to swap places with your universal clone. You live their life from now on, and they live yours. Would you take the money?

Probably not. I'd just end up as a nutjob conspiracy theorist.
"The other universes are real everyone! Some scientists gave me money to replace the version of me in this universe. Really!"

[Eric Blank]

I, knowing how my brain generally functions, would agree with my clone that we're going to kill them, and claim it was self defense. Which it would be.

Fun fact: Your clone is going to say the same thing after he kills you, knowing you were going to kill him. You are leaving it to a coin toss.
As civilized humans, we can surly find a better philosophy than 'The weak are meat and the strong do eat!', risking serious injury to both parties.

Would it not be better to just accept that somebody must die, and there is no reason to harm others in the process?

What I meant was not that I would try to kill my clone, but rather that I and my clone are, due to operating on the same thought processes, both probably going to say "let's murder the lab staff and call it self defence, because they intend to kill one of us."

If somebody must die, then at the very least someone other than me is going to suffer as much as I must. I am not one to give up or surrender under any circumstances, and I find the idea of self-sacrifice disgusting when I have every bit as much right to live as anyone else. Call me a barbaric, mindless, uncivilized animal, but I'll rip your fucking legs off and beat you to death with them before even considering letting you touch me.

[MagmaMcFry]

Consider the following:
We can not clone a human, but instead a universe. We make a perfect replica of this universe that mirrors ours exactly. Every event that happens in this universe, happens in that one. The result of a coin flip is the same in 100% of cases. Everything you will ever do, your clone will do the same.

Now, you are offered $10 to swap places with your universal clone. You live their life from now on, and they live yours. Would you take the money?

Would I get to take the $10 to the other universe? If yes, then yes. If no, then still yes, just to be able to say I switched universes.

EDIT: Although it wouldn't really matter, since I would get offered $10 in the other universe too, right?