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Yes

10 (17.9%)

No

46 (82.1%)

Total Members Voted: 53

[Catsup]

They are a separate person. So is me in the future.

i think you've been watching too many time-travel movies.

Your future self is not a separate person from you, but rather the same person, a lil more grown up with more memories and experiences. This is why when glyph talked about repairing the ship i said that the ship was the same ship.

[Graknorke]

They are a separate person. So is me in the future.

i think you've been watching too many time-travel movies.

Your future self is not a separate person from you, but rather the same person, a lil more grown up with more memories and experiences. This is why when glyph talked about repairing the ship i said that the ship was the same ship.

No, they are different. They have different memories and experiences. They've forgotten things and learned new things. They would react differently to something than I would. They are very much a different person.

[DeKaFu]

You in five minutes is not you now.
Hell, you in a second is not you now. Every unit of planck time you are being destroyed and recreated based on inputs from the outside world and internal memories. The copy would be just as alien as you in an hour is.

People keep saying this like it matters.
What matters is perception. Do you percieve that you were alive 5 seconds ago? Yes.
If you died as I described above, would you percieve anything at all ever again? No.

I perceived that me from 5 seconds ago was alive.
Likewise, my brain-clone would perceive me now as having been alive.

Your brain-clone is physically and literally a seperate person than yourself. If you can't recognise that, I'm not sure how to proceed.

They are a seperate person. So is me in the future.

While you may be able to argue this is technically true, it is not the actual percieved experience of anyone on the planet, therefore completely pointless to this discussion. The functional result of the design of the brain is that it creates an illusion of continued consciousness, and that's what people think of as being alive.

This system would not carry over to this weird situation of brain-clones existing and you dying. You, personally, would (fail to) percieve yourself as dead (because you're dead). All the technical arguments in the world would not change that fact. The status of your clone would not change that fact. Indeed, the existance of the clone is completely irrevelent to that fact.

[MagmaMcFry]

But your consciousness is ENTIRELY because of the structure of your brain and the memories you have. That is what defines you.

its what defines you, but its another person and it is not you. A copy is not the original, it doesnt matter if it is exactly the same.

Dude, you're mixing up varying definitions of "same" and "different" and "is not" again. The same what? Different by what criteria? What is a "person"? What do you mean by "it"? If you don't include those things while talking, we can't know if we're talking about the same thing.

Example:

The combination of memories and thoughts is what defines you, but the clone body is another combination of position, body structure, memories and thoughts and it is not your original body's position, body structure, memories and thoughts.

See? This sounds perfectly logical, while at the same time conceding that both the clone body and the original body fit to the given definition of "you".

A copy is not the original, it doesnt matter if it is exactly the same.

But why does that even matter to you? Why is it important for you to be in your original body? Imagine you were suddenly told that your body is a duplicate of another body, created a year ago. Would you be bothered by that in any way?

Here's a thought experiment for everyone. Assume you are drugged, cloned, and you and your clone wake up naked and unlabeled in a windowless room. Could you find out which is the real you? Now you and your clone are tasked to agree on one of you that is to be killed (to avoid public duplicates). Would it matter to you which one of you you choose?

[Graknorke]

It would matter to me because I'd want it to be me. Since we'd both be conscious and the same person the self-preservation would be pretty awkward.

[Catsup]

But why does that even matter to you? Why is it important for you to be in your original body? Imagine you were suddenly told that your body is a duplicate of another body, created a year ago. Would you be bothered by that in any way?

Here's a thought experiment for everyone. Assume you are drugged, cloned, and you and your clone wake up naked and unlabeled in a windowless room. Could you find out which is the real you? Now you and your clone are tasked to agree on one of you that is to be killed (to avoid public duplicates). Would it matter to you which one of you you choose?

obviously each of us would choose the other to be killed, we die when our consciousness dies, and it doesnt matter if memories, physical composition, or appearance are the same. Every created being with a functional brain has its own individual consciousness that it will protect at all costs.

[Graknorke]

But why does that even matter to you? Why is it important for you to be in your original body? Imagine you were suddenly told that your body is a duplicate of another body, created a year ago. Would you be bothered by that in any way?

Here's a thought experiment for everyone. Assume you are drugged, cloned, and you and your clone wake up naked and unlabeled in a windowless room. Could you find out which is the real you? Now you and your clone are tasked to agree on one of you that is to be killed (to avoid public duplicates). Would it matter to you which one of you you choose?

obviously each of us would choose the other to be killed, we die when our consciousness dies, and it doesnt matter if memories, physical composition, or appearance are the same. Every created being with a functional brain has its on individual consciousness that it will protect at all costs.

Thing is that as soon as we wake up and start to puzzle things out, we diverge. Each of us has a uniqueness to preserve, even if it is only a few hours, it still feels important.

[DeKaFu]

Here's a thought experiment for everyone. Assume you are drugged, cloned, and you and your clone wake up naked and unlabeled in a windowless room. Could you find out which is the real you? Now you and your clone are tasked to agree on one of you that is to be killed (to avoid public duplicates). Would it matter to you which one of you you choose?

Well, the original would still be the original when they woke up, but if I was the clone I'd have no way of knowing. Since I'm tasked with deciding which one will live, I'll try to kill the one who's eyes I'm not currently looking out of.

And then if I win I'll wonder if I killed myself or not for the rest of my life and feel very uncomfortable in my own skin.

Overall I think I'd try to avoid that situation, yup.

[Graknorke]

It doesn't really matter if it's the original or the clone who dies.
So I would choose to just save my own skin. Probably through a fight to the death.

[Catsup]

Thing is that as soon as we wake up and start to puzzle things out, we diverge. Each of us has a uniqueness to preserve, even if it is only a few hours, it still feels important.

hopefully we diverge so he doesnt think like me.

I plan on pretending to cooperate with the guy so we can escape, us against the world, and then stabbing him through the heart when hes most vulnerable/unaware. Then i'll no longer need to run and hide, since there is no longer a duplicate, and one of us is dead.

[Max White]

Here's a thought experiment for everyone. Assume you are drugged, cloned, and you and your clone wake up naked and unlabeled in a windowless room. Could you find out which is the real you? Now you and your clone are tasked to agree on one of you that is to be killed (to avoid public duplicates). Would it matter to you which one of you you choose?

Assuming there was no difference between us, would it matter? I'm fine with my own death as long as a perfect clone exists.
Also, in such an event who ever is closer to the largest door in the room gets to be the real Max. Yes, I have thought about this in the past.

[DeKaFu]

hopefully we diverge so he doesnt think like me.

I plan on pretending to cooperate with the guy so we can escape, us against the world, and then stabbing him through the heart when hes most vulnerable/unaware. Then i'll no longer need to run and hide, since there is no longer a duplicate, and one of us is dead.

Hint: This is his plan too.

[MagmaMcFry]

Now there is a surprising amount of people who voted "No" on the poll. May I have some explanations for that?

It's rather simple, I don't want to die. I don't see the need for a copy of me, won't do me any good since I'll be dead. I don't care about my 'personality' walking around after I'm gone, I care about my own curiosity being sated through my own consciousness for as long as I can.

Ah, but here's the rub: Your brain-clone has your own consciousness too. There is no damn difference between the consciousness residing in the original body and the consciousness residing in the clone body. Imagine the procedure as in the poll, but now directly after the cloning, the bodies are switched around (and the original survives). Would you be okay with that instead?

It would matter to me because I'd want it to be me. Since we'd both be conscious and the same person the self-preservation would be pretty awkward.

But both minds of those people in that cell are the same as the original. You want your mind to survive, since that is the only thing that matters, right? But the original's mind is in both bodies at the same time. Why would you need that mind to be in the body of the consciousness you are currently running?

Every created being with a functional brain has its on individual consciousness that it will protect at all costs.

That's because losing consciousness "generally" implies losing your mind as well (e.g. when dying). But those are only special cases. For god's sake, you are unconscious every damn night, yet you don't struggle to avoid that, and you don't struggle because you know that on the next morning, another consciousness will run on that mind.

[Max White]

People get very attached to having a sense of self that is unique. This makes sense, as it reflects reality, but when you change the rules to allow for a 'perfect' clone some have trouble adapting to this new rule set.
Your clone is you, as much as you are. You need not fear non-existences.

[DeKaFu]

Now there is a surprising amount of people who voted "No" on the poll. May I have some explanations for that?

It's rather simple, I don't want to die. I don't see the need for a copy of me, won't do me any good since I'll be dead. I don't care about my 'personality' walking around after I'm gone, I care about my own curiosity being sated through my own consciousness for as long as I can.

Ah, but here's the rub: Your brain-clone has your own consciousness too. There is no damn difference between the consciousness residing in the original body and the consciousness residing in the clone body. Imagine the procedure as in the poll, but now directly after the cloning, the bodies are switched around (and the original survives). Would you be okay with that instead?

Yes.
Well. As much as I'd be okay with killing another person instead of killing myself.
Which, isn't that okay, actually. Especially since I'd be able to imagine exactly how they'd feel about it.