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Author Topic: National LCS Revisited (4.07.4 Beta Release!)  (Read 107157 times)

NES630

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Re: National LCS Revisited (4.07.3 Beta Release!)
« Reply #240 on: August 15, 2013, 08:46:17 am »

Eh, I wouldn't consider the Hamptons "NYC Metro". The distance between NYC and those areas is too far to be considered adjacent. You can access those areas by driving or the LIRR, but it certainly isn't a short amount of time, so it is impractical for Long Island became the outskirts. It's almost like considering all of NJ outskirts to Newark.

You could probably consider Yonkers or Staten Island as outskirts... I mean, Staten Island is a borough, but it isn't exactly a center of activity.

Also, on another note, Times Square as a site should be possible. Possibly as a park? Dunno.
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My Name is Immaterial

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Re: National LCS Revisited (4.07.3 Beta Release!)
« Reply #241 on: August 15, 2013, 08:04:18 pm »

I tried the revision out with an old save and the CEO/President thing was still broken, but that was probably why. When I finish this game, I'll switch versions.

And yes. I was being sarcastic about the feature/bug thing.

Ah, it doesn't really work that well with old saves. You should start a new game. It's best to play games that were started in the same version as the version you are playing. So here's some advice on when to upgrade the version of the game you have: right after winning or losing a game, before you start a new game, or you could just delete your saved game if you aren't that attached to it (the save.dat file) and then upgrade to a newer version of the game. If you use a save game from one version in a different version you'll have problems. Which is exactly what happened. If you are playing a game of Liberal Crime Squad on an older version and you're REALLY into it, then finish the game on that same version BEFORE you upgrade to a newer version of Liberal Crime Squad.
Another great clue of when to switch is when your LCS files disappear into the ether. Luckily, I didnt really care about those saves.

Capital Fish

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Re: National LCS Revisited (4.07.3 Beta Release!)
« Reply #242 on: August 15, 2013, 08:48:04 pm »

How are we defining "Outskirts" in National LCS, anyway? One hour's drive away? Two? Anywhere you can drive to and from in the same day?
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Liberal Elitist

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Re: National LCS Revisited (4.07.3 Beta Release!)
« Reply #243 on: August 16, 2013, 12:11:27 am »

How are we defining "Outskirts" in National LCS, anyway? One hour's drive away? Two? Anywhere you can drive to and from in the same day?

I would assume that "Outskirts" are anywhere outside city limits but relatively nearby geographically, in, say, a 50-mile radius from the city limits.

Eh, I wouldn't consider the Hamptons "NYC Metro". The distance between NYC and those areas is too far to be considered adjacent. You can access those areas by driving or the LIRR, but it certainly isn't a short amount of time, so it is impractical for Long Island became the outskirts. It's almost like considering all of NJ outskirts to Newark.

You could probably consider Yonkers or Staten Island as outskirts... I mean, Staten Island is a borough, but it isn't exactly a center of activity.

Also, on another note, Times Square as a site should be possible. Possibly as a park? Dunno.

OK, so you have a point about Long Island, I just looked at a map to get an idea of the size of it, and I agree with you that the eastern end of Long Island, especially the Hamptons all the way on the east, isn't really NYC outskirts. So let's just say Nassau County is NYC outskirts but Suffolk County isn't. That island really is long, quite an apt name. I'm an upstate New Yorker from the Binghamton area so all that downstate stuff near NYC, I kinda consider it all the NYC area, guess it's just my upstate bias showing. I did often go to Long Island when I was a kid, had an aunt and uncle down there plus 2 cousins and a dog, they lived in Freeport, in Nassau County. Not that far from city limits. So my impression of it was, Long Island is NYC outskirts, especially since the only way in or out is by going through the city itself. Never actually been to the eastern end of Long Island myself, that's why I checked a map to see how big it is, and it's a bit bigger than I thought. I guess my impression is a little biased since whenever I went to Long Island I went to the town of Freeport which is really close to city limits. So yes, you're right, the eastern part of Long Island, Suffolk County, should not be considered NYC outskirts, just Nassau County. Or maybe we could be a little more Liberal and consider the western part of Suffolk County to be NYC outskirts but not the eastern part of Suffolk County (Suffolk County does take up the vast majority of Long Island's land area after all, with Brooklyn, Queens, and Nassau County all combined taking up a fraction of the size, on the western end of Long Island).

Staten Island, or Shaolin Land as the Wu-Tang Clan calls it, it's PART of the city, it's not outskirts, I have a friend from college who lives on Staten Island, visited him there, short ride on the Staten Island Ferry to and from Manhattan, it's one of the 5 boroughs, it's insulting to call it outskirts when it's part of the city, outskirts are areas outside the city that are relatively close. Why does Staten Island, whoops I mean Shaolin Land, always get the short end of the stick? I remember after that hurricane and flood last fall, Shaolin Land kept getting ignored, and instead everyone kept focusing on the damage in places like the Jersey Shore (where President Obama and Chris Christie went on a buddy tour) and the Rocakways in Queens. But Shaolin Land got devastated and got a lot less relief than other places in the region. The Ol' Dirty Bastard is rolling over in his Ol' Dirty Grave over this.

Got an aunt and uncle down near the southern tip of New Jersey, near Cape May (coincidentally, Aqua Teen Hunger Force, one of my favorite TV shows, takes place in that same area, near the southern tip of New Jersey, in the fictional city of Seattle, New Jersey). The southern part of New Jersey is not very close to New York City or Newark, it's closer to Philadelphia (in Pennsylvania), along with the state of Delaware. Anyway, Newark doesn't HAVE outskirts because it IS an outskirt of NYC, it's up there in northeast New Jersey right near the big city. Places like Newark and Hoboken are most definitely NYC outskirts.

Also Yonkers, White Plains, New Rochelle, and the rest of Westchester County are all NYC outskirts. Very close from there to The Bronx, which is part of NYC. Used to go to New Rochelle all the time when I was a kid. My grandfather lived there and commuted to a job in the World Trade Center, back in the day. Definitely NYC outskirts, right there. World Trade Center, it was on the southern end of Manhattan, now they're building a new one, that whole "Freedom Tower" thing. If you can commute to the WTC from a place to the north of NYC in not much time, like my grandfather, well then obviously you're living in the NYC outskirts.
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NES630

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Re: National LCS Revisited (4.07.3 Beta Release!)
« Reply #244 on: August 16, 2013, 07:59:52 am »

Yeah, you are right about Staten Island, but geographically and somewhat culturally I always thought it was closer to New Jersey. We might just have to steal it from New York... just kidding. Also, Staten Island does always gets screwed over. Fun fact: They are the only borough to have never produced a Supreme Court judge.

And yeah, Yonkers and those other regions are definitely outskirts, along with a lot of Suffolk. Newark, Hoboken, and Jersey City are definitely outskirts as well.

Now, other major cities to dissect. Because the world revolves does not revolve around NYC.

Chicago... I lived around there once too, but I was never quite familiar with all the landmarks. I think Navy Pier and Sears Tower are really it. Do we have a blasphemous deep dish pizza eater person from Chicago who can perhaps define important landmarks a bit better?

Thin crust rules! Long live the folded pizza!
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MADC3

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Re: National LCS Revisited (4.07.3 Beta Release!)
« Reply #245 on: August 18, 2013, 02:36:35 pm »

I just registered so i could say thanks for making an awesome game. Also i live in NYC and Staten Island is ours i'm watching you jersey.
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mosshadow

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Re: National LCS Revisited (4.07.3 Beta Release!)
« Reply #246 on: August 18, 2013, 07:37:37 pm »

LCS is starting to get even better! Does the CCS have safehouses in other cities at this point?
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Kwahn

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Re: National LCS Revisited (4.07.3 Beta Release!)
« Reply #247 on: August 21, 2013, 01:27:45 pm »

So! I found a bug. Apparently, if the police raid a location with squad members there, but those squad members are not WANTED for anything, they'll still siege the location. If you give up, they wont arrest anyone, but they'll take funds (for no apparent reason) and dismantle business fronts.
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Liberal Elitist

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Re: National LCS Revisited (4.07.3 Beta Release!)
« Reply #248 on: August 21, 2013, 02:09:54 pm »

LCS is starting to get even better! Does the CCS have safehouses in other cities at this point?

Yes they have 3 safehouses. The first is in Seattle, the same city you start in. The 2nd and 3rd are in other cities...

So! I found a bug. Apparently, if the police raid a location with squad members there, but those squad members are not WANTED for anything, they'll still siege the location. If you give up, they wont arrest anyone, but they'll take funds (for no apparent reason) and dismantle business fronts.

Which part of that is a bug, exactly? I believe that is the intended behavior of the game, but I could be mistaken. Nevertheless, I am fairly sure that what happened with that siege is exactly how the game is supposed to work. If you don't want the police raiding your safehouses, then you'd better look through all of your Active Liberals at ALL your different sites and see if you can find anyone who is "WANTED FOR" something. If that person turns themselves in to the cops, the cops will stop raiding the safehouses where all your law-abiding members who don't have any crimes they are wanted for are doing legal activities. If you have a wanted criminal who committed a serious crime/crimes, there's a good chance the police will come looking for that person. And even if they don't find that person, their standard operating procedure is to have a siege and then confiscate the money and dismantle a business front. That's just how they operate. If you don't like it, you can either give into the Conservative Police Establishment and let them arrest your wanted criminals so that they leave you alone, or you can take your revenge on them, perhaps by sending 6 juiced-up Liberals with maxed-out Rifle and Dodge skills wearing Heavy Body Armor and carrying AK-47s to the police station, to let the cops know how you feel about them taking your money and shutting down your business front in that annoying little siege. Anyway, the point is, that isn't a bug in the game, the cops in the game are just assholes. Completely unlike reality, since we all know in the real world, police officers are all perfect gentlemen. Especially the female police officers. No wait, they are gentle-ladies. Or something.
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Edit: Figured it out via a little bit of trial and error and oH MY GOD WHAT IS THIS MUSIC WHAT IS THIS MUSIC WHAT THE HECK IS IT SPACEBALLS MUSIC? WHATEVER IT IS IT IS MAGICAL

Baffler

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Re: National LCS Revisited (4.07.3 Beta Release!)
« Reply #249 on: August 21, 2013, 04:14:36 pm »

Fatal crash bug detected. I had my founder in jail and sweatshop workers left, so I disbanded the LCS to wait out the founder's prison sentence. I typed in the activation phrase and got to the screen that lists the status of the agenda. I pressed the button to wait a month and the game promply crashed. All my people were in Seattle at the homeless shelter (except the recently incarcerated founder).

The actual thing read:

Debug Asssertion Failed!

Program: ...s\Desktop\Liberal Crime
Squad\lcs_win32_4.07.3\crimesquad.exe
File: d:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio
10.0\VC\include\vector
Line: 932

Expression:vector subscript out of range.

Edit: the save is not broken, I could reload it and do anything else just fine. I was able to reproduce the crash at the same point.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 04:16:32 pm by Baffler »
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Liberal Elitist

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Re: National LCS Revisited (4.07.3 Beta Release!)
« Reply #250 on: August 21, 2013, 07:16:55 pm »

Fatal crash bug detected. I had my founder in jail and sweatshop workers left, so I disbanded the LCS to wait out the founder's prison sentence. I typed in the activation phrase and got to the screen that lists the status of the agenda. I pressed the button to wait a month and the game promply crashed. All my people were in Seattle at the homeless shelter (except the recently incarcerated founder).

The actual thing read:

Debug Asssertion Failed!

Program: ...s\Desktop\Liberal Crime
Squad\lcs_win32_4.07.3\crimesquad.exe
File: d:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio
10.0\VC\include\vector
Line: 932

Expression:vector subscript out of range.

Edit: the save is not broken, I could reload it and do anything else just fine. I was able to reproduce the crash at the same point.

It's good that you can reproduce the crash at the same point reloading from the same saved game. That means this bug is nice and deterministic, not random, making it easier to pin down. Also the "Expression:vector subscript out of range" makes it fairly obvious what type of bug to look out for, namely one where a vector subscript is out of range. In fact I could just search the source code for instances of vectors, and go through every time they are ever used to see where there is a possibility for them to be out of range. Also, since this happened right after you disbanded, that is also another excellent clue. This will PROBABLY be enough information to find the bug. Hmm, maybe I should even try to duplicate the situation, get a founder in jail and have sweatshop workers left. Since they are illegal aliens (one of the creature flags), they get handled differently. Having a situation where ALL your Active Liberals are illegal aliens might cause problems. I shall investigate this.
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Edit: Figured it out via a little bit of trial and error and oH MY GOD WHAT IS THIS MUSIC WHAT IS THIS MUSIC WHAT THE HECK IS IT SPACEBALLS MUSIC? WHATEVER IT IS IT IS MAGICAL

Baffler

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Re: National LCS Revisited (4.07.3 Beta Release!)
« Reply #251 on: August 21, 2013, 08:24:35 pm »

Tried to reproduce the bug under similar conditions, and the same thing happened with a teenager and two hippies left over. So yeah, most likely caused by the founder's imprisonment (13 month sentence).
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Even if you found a suitable opening, I doubt it would prove all too satisfying. And it might leave some nasty wounds, depending on the moral high ground's geology.
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Kwahn

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Re: National LCS Revisited (4.07.3 Beta Release!)
« Reply #252 on: August 22, 2013, 12:05:52 am »

Which part of that is a bug, exactly? I believe that is the intended behavior of the game, but I could be mistaken.

Well, if you take ALL of your people out of the location, even the ones who aren't going to get arrested, they just show up and leave everything alone. No funds are taken, no dismantling of the compound. They wont even take any of the 100+ assault rifles lying around.

If you leave innocent characters there, they will show up and say "You are wanted for Finding a Bug" instead of actually stating any real crimes, leading me to believe that it is actually a bug and not intended behavior.
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Mazur

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Re: National LCS Revisited (4.07.3 Beta Release!)
« Reply #253 on: August 22, 2013, 05:14:48 am »

About the dismantling of Business fronts.

Suppose the Police raid a suspected business front for a wanted person, and they find none there, but proceed to dismantle it and confiscate stuff.   Now suppose that the owners sue the City in a business court for unwarranted seizure.  Now the City (ii.e. Police) had better be able to produce proof of illegal activity, or not only will the City have to restore and refund, but lose another big chunk for loss of business and reputation damage of the business in question.  Especially in a Conservative climate, where Business is President, King, Undisputed Ruler of the Galaxy and God.

And there would be no jury to influence with innuendo and gossip by the defense.  Judges see right through it, they're trained for that shit.

So in that view, the dismantling and seizure of funds and equipment is not so logical.
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Liberal Elitist

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Re: National LCS Revisited (4.07.3 Beta Release!)
« Reply #254 on: August 22, 2013, 03:32:47 pm »

Well, if you take ALL of your people out of the location, even the ones who aren't going to get arrested, they just show up and leave everything alone. No funds are taken, no dismantling of the compound. They wont even take any of the 100+ assault rifles lying around.

If you leave innocent characters there, they will show up and say "You are wanted for Finding a Bug" instead of actually stating any real crimes, leading me to believe that it is actually a bug and not intended behavior.

AHH so it IS a bug! Yes, that text about "Finding a Bug" was put in there precisely to catch bugs like this. Sorry! Yes, you did find a bug.
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Edit: Figured it out via a little bit of trial and error and oH MY GOD WHAT IS THIS MUSIC WHAT IS THIS MUSIC WHAT THE HECK IS IT SPACEBALLS MUSIC? WHATEVER IT IS IT IS MAGICAL
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