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[Centigrade]

I have the idea of creating a magma-and-water cave in over the top of an adamantine spire with the goal of collapsing it down the tube to seal off Hell so that I can mine an entire spire without having to worry about demons. Is this feasible? How would I construct it? Hold my hand and use small words.

Thanks in advance.

[Tarqiup Inua]

Bit SPOILER-ish name, isn't it?

[dwarfkoala]

Yeah. Might want to change that to at least "On Breaching HFS", or "Preparing for the Carnvial" or something.

[Crashmaster]

to do this safely you need to allow for a at least semi-straight hollow spire. You need to drop a solid column at least as tall as hell is deep or part of it could fall all the way through the spire to the slade floor leaving a hole.

Basically a very tall 4x4 cast column is dropped and the four quarters will each drop as far as they can through the spire floors possibly all the way to hell's floor. You look at the tops of the four quarters to determine how far down the spire is plugged and may need to cast and drop another.

Either cut out a natural stone 4x4 column (you can drop pieces through the caverns to stack them) or cast one with a mold. Both methods get real complicated if you need to drop a second column not quite in line with the first. Neither are easy and you might not even have enough space to get a column that could seal the tube without dropping out the bottom.

[Centigrade]

My greatest concern is in accounting for human error when I make the initial breach. I would like a design that will work even if my initial breach is off-center, and even if the mining dwarfs cancel their designations and immediately flee. In the scenario that I am envisioning and for which I should like to prepare, there is only a single tile that breaches the hollow spire and it is not centered. The adamantine spire may also not be straight or semi-straight. The goal of this endeavour is to breach Hell safely, and to plug it so that I can get at the hollow adamantine spire without having to deal with a horde of demons.

To this end I had thought to use liquids rather than solids as my filling material. My understanding of the relevant physical properties of magma, obsidian, and water are that the second is formed whenever the first and third meet; so, I was hoping perhaps to build reservoirs of both, then pour first one and then the other down the drain. The problem with this is that I have no idea how I would situate these reservoirs or how I would time their release to be useful. If one is dumped down the spire and allowed to just spread out, then no good comes of this; if both are dumped too quickly, perhaps they will meet and form obsidian before they are sufficiently far from their reservoirs to be useful.

In designing this project I am trying to identify in advance and work around problems. The idea of a solid mass being dropped seems like it would work for a straight spire whose entire mouth has been revealed, and probably that is what I will go with for my first attempt at this; however, I think we would benefit from discussing the ways to create and use a liquid-based system as well.

Yeah. Might want to change that to at least "On Breaching HFS", or "Preparing for the Carnvial" or something.

What nonsense is all this?

Bit SPOILER-ish name, isn't it?

What are you on about?

[Tiruin]

Centigrade, when we mean spoiler, is that you're talking about something in game that isn't obvious to the newbie. Modify the first post in this thread by changing the Subject from 'On Breaching Hell' to "Breaching HFS."

As for how that theory is possible - The Hall of Legends speaks of one checkerboard which won the game by killing all pieces in obsidian - wherein pieces refers to those damned souls below.

But really. Spoiler the title, shift it.

[Centigrade]

Centigrade, when we mean spoiler, is that you're talking about something in game that isn't obvious to the newbie. Modify the first post in this thread by changing the Subject from 'On Breaching Hell' to "Breaching HFS."

As for how that theory is possible - The Hall of Legends speaks of one checkerboard which won the game by killing all pieces in obsidian - wherein pieces refers to those damned souls below.

But really. Spoiler the title, shift it.

If your definition of a spoiler is, "something in game that isn't obvious to the newbie," then I dare say almost any discussion about Slaves to Armok: God of Blood Chapter II: Dwarf Fortress fits that definition. Is liquid pressure obvious to the newbie? Is the danger or presence of building destroyers obvious to the newbie? Is the distinction between which buildings and constructions can and cannot be destroyed by said creatures obvious to the newbie? Are the immolation and melting temperatures of various materials as defined in the raws and mentioned literally nowhere in the game itself obvious to the newbie? Are the extraordinary research studies, such as "Dwarven Research: A Comparison Study on the Effectiveness of Bolts vs Armors," obvious to the newbie?

With respect, very little discussed on this forum is obvious to the newbie.

edit: Direct link to the referenced thread: An AussieGuy Project - The Dwarven Checkerboard

[EvilBob22]

The usual problem with liquids is if you just dump them in, they hit the bottom and spread out.  If you want to obsidianize hell, the best method found so far is ThatAussieGuy's checkerboard that Tiruin mentioned.

[Centigrade]

The usual problem with liquids is if you just dump them in, they hit the bottom and spread out.  If you want to obsidianize hell, the best method found so far is ThatAussieGuy's checkerboard that Tiruin mentioned.

That is exactly my concern. Thanks for the advice, I'll check it out.

[itg]

Centigrade, when we mean spoiler, is that you're talking about something in game that isn't obvious to the newbie. Modify the first post in this thread by changing the Subject from 'On Breaching Hell' to "Breaching HFS."

As for how that theory is possible - The Hall of Legends speaks of one checkerboard which won the game by killing all pieces in obsidian - wherein pieces refers to those damned souls below.

But really. Spoiler the title, shift it.

If your definition of a spoiler is, "something in game that isn't obvious to the newbie," then I dare say almost any discussion about Slaves to Armok: God of Blood Chapter II: Dwarf Fortress fits that definition. Is liquid pressure obvious to the newbie? Is the danger or presence of building destroyers obvious to the newbie? Is the distinction between which buildings and constructions can and cannot be destroyed by said creatures obvious to the newbie? Are the immolation and melting temperatures of various materials as defined in the raws and mentioned literally nowhere in the game itself obvious to the newbie? Are the extraordinary research studies, such as "Dwarven Research: A Comparison Study on the Effectiveness of Bolts vs Armors," obvious to the newbie?

With respect, very little discussed on this forum is obvious to the newbie.

edit: Direct link to the referenced thread: An AussieGuy Project - The Dwarven Checkerboard

The point is, the shock of finding Doom where one expected to find endless riches is a shock every new player deserves to experience for himself. Sure, plenty of newbies will go searching the forums and wiki and spoil it for themselves, but don't ruin the Fun for the rest of them. Needless to say, you're right that the majority of discussion on this forum isn't obvious to the newbie and doesn't need to be considered a spoiler. Hell is really the only thing that does.

On topic, I think the easiest way to get all the adamantine is actually to kill all the demons. There are plenty of options. You've seen the checkerboard, of course. Spike traps on repeat will do it if you have suitable bait, ideally artifact furniture. I defeated the hellspawn with a necromancer and a corpse chute, once, although I wouldn't try it again. Turns out necromancers can't raise demon corpses, and some of the goblin corpse bits got so smashed up they (evidently) couldn't be damaged any further and were therefore immortal.

Anyway, once you kill the first wave, you can just send a dwarf down to build a floor over the bottom of the shaft. The demons that spawn from the map edges won't rush your fortress, so you shouldn't have too much trouble.

[proxn_punkd]

If your definition of a spoiler is, "something in game that isn't obvious to the newbie," then I dare say almost any discussion about Slaves to Armok: God of Blood Chapter II: Dwarf Fortress fits that definition.

Boy, if pissing all over our favorite in-joke is your method of making yourself look smart, you're in for a rude awakening.

[Necrisha]

With the commentary that's showing up you'd think he were talking about this forum .

But seriously; if its something that has spoiler warnings in the wiki you should probably play "dance around description" like everybody else. It's more fun that way.

[Werdna]

thanks bro

[Centigrade]

If your definition of a spoiler is, "something in game that isn't obvious to the newbie," then I dare say almost any discussion about Slaves to Armok: God of Blood Chapter II: Dwarf Fortress fits that definition.

Boy, if pissing all over our favorite in-joke is your method of making yourself look smart, you're in for a rude awakening.

Maybe, as a show of his respect for the community in which he takes part, he'll reflect a little longer on the meaning of 'spoiler', and even if he continues to find it a non-spoiler, perhaps he will reflect on the importance of being respectful to a community that disagrees with him and has had a long tradition of treating it as a spoiler.  DBAD.

That's a much more convincing argument, and I will acquiesce.

[Tiruin]

TBH, I read Centi's comment as more on benevolent snark than anything else

But I'm glad you're now talking about that one place. The basic reason why it isn't told is to preserve that 'OMG wat.' feeling when you've...

Dug too deep.

I mean, the very basis of such was the reason (among most - being good storytelling of DF) that brought me into the forums. How it was told, was the surprise. [This goes to you, SpiralDementia ^^] Also, the hilarity if someone's narrating on their story to dig deeper than ever before, including their surprise when its into story-form? Yeah, it bleeds emotion.

And thanks for the title shift!