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[Leafsnail]

Actually it fits into his existing arc perfectly. In the first episode he sees Ned execute a man who fled the Night's Watch, and in season 5 he executes Janos Slynt for a far lesser offence than what the mutineers did. He understands that traitors must be dealt with harshly.

[Kot]

The deserter got beheaded.
Janos got beheaded.

Thorne and Olly and the rest got hanged.
Ramsay got eaten by dogs.

See the difference?

[Leafsnail]

Hanging is a nasty way to die but it's clearly accepted as a form of execution in Westeros (and in some real life countries even). I would imagine it was just so he could kill all five with one swing, not to make them suffer like with Ramsey.

[Comrade P.]

Hanging is a nasty way to die

Actually, if you use the long drop method, hanging is quite a snappy method of execution. ^{_{Get it, because the neck snaps, instantly killing a person. I'm funny.}}
Too bad makeshift hanging usually leads to a death through asphyxiation, which is excruciating.

[itisnotlogical]

I imagine being betrayed and murdered, on top of being an undead freak of nature, might make you a bit more vindictive.

[Xantalos]

The shitty method of hanging actually made the BwB scene with the Hound funnier because his method of chopping their heads in half with an axe would've been more merciful than slowly asphyxiating like they did.

[Vattic]

I was a bit disappointed Jon executed them the way he did. Would have expected it be done quicker, but figure it was to shock the audience.

[Loud Whispers]

Hey, they're good at killing people. Nobody said anything about their organizational prowess.

Yes, yes many people said much about their organizational prowess, even the "no ones" of the faceless men said much about this, they are the greatest organization - an assassin guild that is unparalleled by any other organization. They are an organization that predates Braavos, going as far back as Valyria - they are only rivaled by the Maesters in term of organizational prowess.

Yeah, tbh I actually think he's pretty "positive" character, fighting for "forces of good", after all. Comes up, does his best, saves his Lord Commander's life and then the same guy basically betrays him and the whole organization by letting cannibals and murderers in... and then he's the bad one. I mean, holy shit, White Walkers are coming and Wildlings got a lot of good light recently, but don't forget that Tormund went around murdering helpless civilians and Ygritte did the same with a bow (like, she shot Olly's father in the head, come on). There's a reason people react like they react to the prospect of Free Folk on the southern side of the Wall.

I said "Fuck Olly" to make clear that that was kind of Slowpoke joke, since people could actually read it as Jon Snow dies in last episode of this season.

Yeah, Olly's plotline was handled poorly. Olly and Jon don't actually talk to one another, they just sulk and do the .O. face at each other all the time. I think the high mark has to be when Olly shoots yGrit, and looks altogether happy, nodding to Jon Snow as Olly's done his duty and avenged his father. That's never addressed again, and the general reaction was FUCK YOU OLLY U KILL MY SHIPS. Jon doesn't even bother explaining to Olly that Jon has been killing wildlings for a long time and that there is a greater enemy approaching, he just takes it for granted that Olly knows why he's letting in murderers with a joint degree in reaving and despoiling. Also lol @ Alliser Thorne bitching at Jon for letting the wildlings in, even though as acting commander he was the one who opened the gate to Jon and the wildlings. Lots of really good characters ruined by shit writing
Alliser got shafted in retrospect too. Clear man, clear duty, all they had to do was make his actions consistent - end of the day, this guy was a grilling drill sergeant, not a bad guy, and it seems odd that D&D managed to screw him up when they clearly understood this too. He isn't joking when he talks of having eaten his own brothers to survive, isn't joking when he talks of making a fighting force out of the dismal brotherhood (whilst Jon gets all the misunderstood underdogs, Alliser has to deal with the real scum of the earth who were too dangerous to let loose in normal society), is one of the last Sers who takes his job seriously and is completely justified in not letting the wildlings south, as they just tried taking over the wall and to just let them through is to place their faith in Jon's diplomacy - as with that many wildlings making it south, the Night's Watch would be so outnumbered if the wildlings attacked it would all be over.
We don't get any scenes of Jon alleviating those fears, such as when Jon integrates the Thenns into the Seven Kingdoms (with the Thenns in the show being cannibal murder fuckers), and the risk of being destroyed once the wildlings are through the wall (where they have no protection) is too great. Alliser's only great moment is when he commands the defence of the wall and gets injured, leaving the fight to Jon and Jon's lieutenants.

Bit sad really, this man tries to teach Jon lessons about life, on how his kindness and the softness of his friends will get him killed (which is a running theme for the main characters to boot), yet the show either ignores or spends little to no time exploring why Alliser is so harsh to Jon.
For starters, Alliser Thorne is a Ser who fought for the Targaeryans, and Ned Stark is part of the reason he is at the wall. Alliser then seeks to serve the Watch faithfully watching his brothers die, having to eat his brothers to survive, going through hell - and then the bastard son of the man who sent him to the Watch arrives and mucks about, whilst he is trying to make useful soldiers out of these boys. He then sees Jon Snow try to desert after he just came back (after having ostensibly killed one of his closest friends, Qhorin Halfhand, with whom he fought together) after falling in love with his enemy, an enemy now at the gates. Which Jon then brings inside. Closest we got to seeing Alliser portrayed in any level of depth beyond 'bad guy' was in the beginning and end, when his plot begins and he berates Jon for feeling superior to recruits who've never wielded a sword before, to the end when his watch ends and he says his words. Wasted. Also lol his name even means thorn in your side

I was a bit disappointed Jon executed them the way he did. Would have expected it be done quicker, but figure it was to shock the audience.

I think it is rather interesting that Jon Snow does not execute them as his father taught him, it was most likely just D&D appeasing fans who fucking hated Olly and to a lesser extent, felt catharsis at seeing Thorne die

[Loud Whispers]

http://uproxx.com/tv/george-rr-martin-showrunner-war/4/
Sansa and Stannis
It all makes sense now

[Leafsnail]

That article seems to be relying pretty heavily on "implications" that have nothing to do with what was actually said. And also it suggests the Shireen burning scene came from GRRM (which isn't too surprising given that it was the obvious destination for Stannis' character).

[Loud Whispers]

That article seems to be relying pretty heavily on "implications" that have nothing to do with what was actually said.

"In the novels, Jaime is not present at Joffrey’s death, and indeed, Cersei has been fearful that he is dead himself, that she has lost both the son and the father/ lover/ brother. And then suddenly Jaime is there before her. Maimed and changed, but Jaime nonetheless. Though the time and place is wildly inappropriate and Cersei is fearful of discovery, she is as hungry for him as he is for her.
The whole dynamic is different in the show, where Jaime has been back for weeks at the least, maybe longer, and he and Cersei have been in each other’s company on numerous occasions, often quarreling. The setting is the same, but neither character is in the same place as in the books, which may be why [producers] played the sept out differently. But that’s just my surmise; we never discussed this scene, to the best of my recollection.
Also, I was writing the scene from Jaime’s POV, so the reader is inside his head, hearing his thoughts. On the TV show, the camera is necessarily external. You don’t know what anyone is thinking or feeling, just what they are saying and doing.
If the show had retained some of Cersei’s dialogue from the books, it might have left a somewhat different impression – but that dialogue was very much shaped by the circumstances of the books, delivered by a woman who is seeing her lover again for the first time after a long while apart during which she feared he was dead. I am not sure it would have worked with the new timeline.
That’s really all I can say on this issue. The scene was always intended to be disturbing… but I do regret if it has disturbed people for the wrong reasons.”
-GRRM on Cersei rape by D&D

And also it suggests the Shireen burning scene came from GRRM (which isn't too surprising given that it was the obvious destination for Stannis' character).

It's not obvious if you haven't read the books (and if you have, then you'll just be even more irate), character motivations last two season have been ???

Onion Knight is willing to die for Jon's corpse because ???
Onion Knight is willing to work with the woman who caused his son to die and tried to sacrifice Gendry using black magic he spent 4 seasons fighting to bring back Jon for ???
Sansa Stark is the key to the North everyone has been fighting over since Season 1 but is apparently not important at all to inheriting the north because ???
Sansa Stark wants Jon Snow to march south to save Rickon even though Sansa then tells Jon they shouldn't be marching south and Rickon can't be saved because ???
Sansa Stark doesn't tell Jon Snow about reinforcements because ???
Sand Sneks wipe out the entire Martell family in order to avenge the Martell family because ???
Sam steals the Valyrian steel sword of his family because ???
Everything the Faceless and Arya have been doing undone because ???
The Iron Bank are ok with no one repaying their debts because ???
Cersei Lannister kills Maester Pycelle even though he is loyal to the Lannisters and was Cersei's informant because ???
Stannis burninates Shireen not to fulfill the Azhor Ahai prophecy but to avoid the cold because ???
Onion Knight is ok with Shireen burninating and Melly walking away because ???
Tyrion and Danaerys become best buddies despite knowing each other for a few days because ???
The Iron Islands, Dorne and the North are all surprisingly cool with kin slaying bastards and the like inheriting over legitimate heirs because ???
Margaery ??? (She is only sincere one moment in S3, the best season by far)
Blackfish, Jaime, Brienne, Bronn, High Sparrow, dude lmao ???

[Leafsnail]

I don't want to debate every single plot point of the show but we already saw Stannis set fire to heretics close to his house because Mel told him to. Since we were then told in all kinds of ways that Stannis had completely fallen for the Red Woman and her promises so having Stannis make the ultimate sacrifice seemed like a pretty likely outcome to me.

The point where I'd say it became obvious was this absurdly ominous scene in season 4. Selyse says she'd like to leave her Shireen at home (while emphasizing that she's a heretic) but Mel insists that she has to come along (after looking meaningfully into a fire and talking about how harsh the LoL is over dark music). I don't actually know what other interpretation there is of that scene, it seemed excessively heavy-handed to me if anything.

I'm aware it contradicts his characterization in the books but it makes perfect sense given what we have seen in the show.

[Loud Whispers]

I don't want to debate every single plot point of the show but we already saw Stannis set fire to heretics close to his house because Mel told him to. Since we were then told in all kinds of ways that Stannis had completely fallen for the Red Woman and her promises so having Stannis make the ultimate sacrifice seemed like a pretty likely outcome to me.

We are told loads of ways that completely conflict with what is shown. GRRM shows us what is happening, D&D tells us otherwise. Telling and not showing, is bad story telling :P
Take the point where Stannis sets fire to the heretics.
This is how it is played out:

The amount of power she had over him did seem a tad excessive for someone who was from the Kings Landings court and she was clearly using him for her agenda, but they toned that down a lot and again, this scene:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Whilst Mellysnelly has more control over Stannis (power of tits apparently is unstoppable in GoT, only Renly could resist and we saw how that worked out) I find this was done in a way that eventually payed off.

Once upon a time, I found this show praiseworthy. His wife fell for the zealotry, Stannis did not, the only way we can justify Stannis burning Shireen over nothing is if we retroactively erase his character development and make him a zealot burning heretics because red woman

The point where I'd say it became obvious was this absurdly ominous scene in season 4. Selyse says she'd like to leave her Shireen at home (while emphasizing that she's a heretic) but Mel insists that she has to come along (after looking meaningfully into a fire and talking about how harsh the LoL is over dark music). I don't actually know what other interpretation there is of that scene, it seemed excessively heavy-handed to me if anything.

That and her mother despises the disfigured Shireen, believed in the cleansing of fire, hated her for being the only child she bore in a long list of failed male births e.t.c.
Immediate warning signs were that D&D actually bothered to include character development for Stannis and Shireen, where Stannis declares Shireen is the only person in the world for whom he would sacrifice everything in order to defend. GRRM likes to set up characters for victory before befalling them with tragedy, whilst D&D likes to set up characters for heartwarming moments before befalling them with tragedy.

I'm aware it contradicts his characterization in the books but it makes perfect sense given what we have seen in the show.

Thus it all contradicts his characterization in the show in exchange for shock value. The mother who despises everything about Shireen makes a massive U-turn and defends her, in defiance of all her beliefs. The father in defiance of all his beliefs and the love he bears for Shireen, sacrifices her to alleviate better conditions than he bore in the siege of Storm's End. The sacrifice proves ultimately pointless and furthers the plot in no way, going in the face of characterization.
The GRRM method is more subtle. The deaths he writes shake throughout the plot, from the more immediately affected (the Starks and Lannisters gradually losing their family members one by one) to the more distantly affected (Danaerys's character grows in confidence, as as a child she fears the Seven Kingdoms' fearsome commanders, and as an adult she hears news of Ned Stark, Tywin Lannister, Balon Greyjoy, Robert Baratheon and Stannis Baratheon get picked off one by one). This is especially pertinent in Stannis and Shireen's case, if you follow my link to the scene where Stannis burns the heretics, you will note I actually praised how the show was managing their divergence from the book's character quite solidly, with the plot advancing and much gained from the better screentime devoted to Shireen and Onion. But thrown into the D&D formula, we get touching scenes that do not advance the plot, but only serve to produce shock.
Thus we have to have contrived elements like the infamous 20GOODMEN to force Stannis into taking actions that don't make sense, actions that prove ultimately pointless and don't advance the plot.

GRRM on the other hand has been hinting that Stannis will be victorious in the battle of Ice, and in victory tragedy will befall him as he must sacrifice Shireen in victory to fulfill the Azhor Ahai prophecy and stop the Others. The greatest tragedy will be he will likely be the greatest enemy of Rh'ollor and somehow aid the Others, advancing the plot greatly to apocalyptic end game and thus finishing his arc as winter comes - instead of just 20GOODMEN and being a footnote to Brienne's arc.
Brienne of course finished her arc much too early, as brought up earlier - standing at the crossroads between avenging Renly or saving Sansa, she teleports and achieves both, spending S6 doing nothing of consequence as she's already had her cake and eat it, with no Lady Stonehearts to bring back any notion of character conflict that had long since been aborted. Everything just terminates. The only plotlines that have meaningfully advanced are Jon Snow, Cersei, Arya and Danaerys.

The great twist of Jon Snow's death was meaningless, and he somehow became KON ignoring the show's own logic. We spend 5 seasons with everyone fighting for Sansa as key to the North, only to find she is ignored, despite being the last known Stark, married to the previous Lord of the North and the Lady of Winterfell, and the one who won the battle. To reiterate, the great big twist of life and death, was meaningless.

Cersei has been characterized as having two great traits, upon which all other characterization is based:

• The lioness protects her cubs at all costs
• She amasses power and doesn't know what to do with it

To the latter end, everyone else's character arcs were aborted rather explosively, Miguel doing the best possible job with the mess he was given. Nevertheless, besides killing off her own pawns for no particular reason, nor being shown taking over the goldcloaks or the Lannister men or the Kingsguard, she manages to take power because it was awesome. Bloody hell, at least show Cersei maneuvering in some manner prior, instead of having Cersei working with the Lady of Thorns only to pull the rabbit out of the hat out of the blue. Of course, the point I'm leading up to is the lioness who protects her cub does not protect her cub and is surprisingly ok with her last child killing himself, despite having her son under the guard of the Mountain. I guess it was really important she had the Mountain rape the Septa instead of protect Tommen? Good writing D&D

Arya - fucking hell lol

Danaerys - spends six seasons trying to learn how to become a ruler, learning that she can't solve all her problems by killing her enemies and setting them on fire, ends this season learning she can solve all her problems by killing her enemies and setting them on fire. This is all whilst talking about breaking the wheel.
I do find Pr's quote on Daario to be poignant, in how Daario was accidentally written into a pretty awesome arc in the wake of Danaerys's aborted character development. Whilst all of Danaerys's problems solve themselves and she has no motivation besides freeing everyone to place themselves under the Targaryan yoke all over again, Daario spends his final season wishing to see the wondrous Empire Danaerys makes - and ends up stuck having to build it himself.

None of it makes any bloody sense. Except maybe Sir 20 of house Goodman, that is by far the best character I've ever seen in a show. Sir 20 for Iron Throne

[Kot]

Yes.

[Xantalos]

i want to believe