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[Xantalos]

Still far less of a bad guy than Littlefinger though, who basically killed everyone else.

Didn't we all agree he also started the whole series of events in the series?

That killed everyone else.

[GlyphGryph]

So spoiler stuff I don't remember anything about, raising Joffrey (while noting that she ALSO raised Tommen, so is this really her fault or just another way she got screwed over by bad luck), and...

The stuff with Tyrion.

So it really is just the stuff with Tyrion that she's responsible for at this point, and that seems to be because she really, honestly thinks he killed her son.

[Loud Whispers]

Ned raised his son out of guilt, and he made that pretty clear, and Cat did everything she could to rub it in.

He did it out of honour not guilt, Ned put Cat's opinion at 2nd to his own for his bastard son.
Also PR + L = J, J + KR = death.

There's a reason Jon ran away to the wall. He was never "accepted" any more than Theon was, he was... an obligation. Not a true son.

See above explanation. Also Theon breaks down and cries about how Ned was his father before Ramsay revealed he was Ramsay, so he even treated his hostage like his son.

Also, do people still hate Cersei, and other than the recent Tyrion stuff, what did she ever do that was actually... bad, you know?

All the collateral damage in her lust for power is put to waste when she just uses it to dick around with the helpless like the poor or Sansa. Imagine if you will a mother bear killing your friends. You know she feels like she must protect her cubs, but that won't stop you from hating her.

I was reading some stuff on another forum, and I realized that honestly, she got fucking screwed in so many ways, and much like Tyrion people tend to blame her for a lot of stuff she's not responsible for. Hell, I think some people still think she tried to assassinate Bran.

Book spoilers yo

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

They haven't revealed it was Joffrey who tried to get Bran killed yet have they? Also yes, the Lannister family is full of fuck ups.

Part of why the audience hates Cersei is that we're still supposed to. By all accounts we only see her do vile things for petty reasons, missing that she rarely does anything Tyrion hasn't done better. From poisoning to wildfire, often times Tyrion HAS just done what Cersei was preparing but better. Just wait until we get her POV arc before we give her our sympathies.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Unlike Theon, I get the gist that Cersei's punishment is born from her inept statecraft, not her mistakes. Let's arm the religious zealots, surely they'll only attack 2GOD and not just overthrow my corrupt church and government to set up a pious theocracy... Why were the religious orders wiped out again?  LEL I FORGOT ARM SOLDIERS NOW

[Xantalos]

Yep.
While she hasn't actually done much beyond do a magnificent job of being a bitch, she gets worse in the future.
Remember how she was acting towards Margaery?

[GlyphGryph]

I didn't actually "book spoilers" there, I didn't know that ever happened. I mean, it's obvious it wasn't Cersei that did it, but I honestly thought

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That that was Littlefinger as well, what with the Assassin conveniently carrying enough he could identify and conveniently use to pick a target.

[Loud Whispers]

Yep.
While she hasn't actually done much beyond do a magnificent job of being a bitch, she gets worse in the future.
Remember how she was acting towards Margaery?

To also be fair, Margaery is superior to Cersei in every way so its easy to see why she's trying to get rid of her. Her last vestiges of power rest on it, because MUH PROPHECIES SON

I didn't actually "book spoilers" there, I didn't know that ever happened. I mean, it's obvious it wasn't Cersei that did it, but I honestly thought

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That that was Littlefinger as well, what with the Assassin conveniently carrying enough he could identify and conveniently use to pick a target.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Littlefinger is just a lying shit. Robert was drunk and said someone should try and put Bran out of his misery. Joffrey heard this, and being ever to please his father sent the assassin.

[zombat]

Also, do people still hate Cersei, and other than the recent Tyrion stuff, what did she ever do that was actually... bad, you know?

Fucked her brother, produced a hell spawn, pulled the strings that killed the king, didn't do anything but encourage her King Hell Spawn to be anything but a little shit, plunged the entirety of Westeros into a bloody civil war via her hell spawn executing Sean Bean, they only one that could prevent the two Baratheon brothers rutting that actually cared to do so.

Being a bitch to Stansa
Ordering babies to be killed...yeah, this one

[Xantalos]

Actually that was Joffrey who killed babies.

[10ebbor10]

Anyway, I wonder where the show is at the moment.

Can anyone tell me who was the last character to be killed, it's one of the easiest ways to keep track of where the plot is at the moment.

[Xantalos]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Oberyn

[Sheb]

But wouldn't talk about his mother, and didn't prevent him from signing in the Night's Watch. Also never even talked of legitimizing him.

[Loud Whispers]

But wouldn't talk about his mother, and didn't prevent him from signing in the Night's Watch. Also never even talked of legitimizing him.

The answer to all three lies in the equations and WAS going to be revealed when Ned Stark was supposed to come back.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And only after Jon Snow joined the night's watch for a reason. THE EQUATIONS TELL ALL

[Loud Whispers]

But wouldn't talk about his mother, and didn't prevent him from signing in the Night's Watch. Also never even talked of legitimizing him.

Oh yeah, and you need the King's permission to legitimise a bastard. It's a big deal.

We are also missing that the viper of dorn3, indeed all the dornish treat their bastards as they do legitimate children.

[Xantalos]

But wouldn't talk about his mother, and didn't prevent him from signing in the Night's Watch. Also never even talked of legitimizing him.

If we believe R+L=J, then that was too dangerous. Plus he said he would the next time they met, he just succumbed to Sean Bean syndrome.
The Night's Watch is seen as a thing of honor and stuff in the North. His own brother went there, and it's a Stark tradition to have a family member go to the Wall every generation.
And if he legitimized him, he would've been a threat to Robb in the succession thing, Catelyn would've knifed him in his sleep or something ridiculous, plus he'd piss off the Tully family.

[Sheb]

What are the argument for R+J=L?