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Author Topic: Mmhmm...  (Read 1004 times)

Nekura

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Mmhmm...
« on: March 14, 2007, 12:00:00 am »

I keep getting dwarves that just stand around, the woodcutter won't cut the dang trees and the whatevers won't build the buildings(yes I designated trees, etc). Miners mine and engravers detail, and they all take stuff to the stores...but it's getting annoying seeing "No job" all the time.

And how do you make fortification?

And while I'm asking, do the different kinds of stone(chalk, sandstone, rhyolite, andesite, wetc) have any different effects when you use them?

How much does a support hold?

What kind of terrain can you build farms on? I've only had locations with trees and stuff so the X is always red, and I saw a picture of farms inside the cavern...so what's up.

That's all...for now =p Thanks in advance for not flaming my day 1 questions  ;)

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ColonelTEE3

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Re: Mmhmm...
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2007, 12:26:00 am »

Make sure your dwarves have the job available, make sure the equipment needed to do the jobs is available (e.g. picks for mining, battleaxes for woodcutting, etc.)

Fortifications are only made on 1X(any length) walls, and only after they have been smoothed over. First hollow out a wall so its only 1 space thick, smooth the wall over using (d)esignate, and then in that same command tab you designate those smoothed over walls to be fortified. Then your archers/ballistas/whatever can shoot from one side without being shot back at from the other.

As for stones, no i don't believe any normal stones have any difference except that you should avoid using light or dark stones since they are used for various other tasks (obsidian for obsidian swords, limestone for pig iron/steel)

Support holds exactly 7X7 areas, i suggest you instead leave one space open as a natural support, it's alot more efficient for farming and you don't have to think about caveins later if you do it right away.

Farms can ONLY be built on muddy terrain INSIDE the cave. You can force muddy terrain to appear with floodgate systems, or using seasonal floods and building the plots off those.

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Xeirxes

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Re: Mmhmm...
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2007, 12:29:00 am »

Can't answer your first question, but I can answer all your other ones.

Fortifications are made by first detailing a thin stone wall, and then designating it for fortification. Note that the wall must be only 1 square wide.

A support holds just the same amount of load as a regular wall holds, so if you carve out your caves with good planning, you don't even need supports; needless to say, cave-ins occur in a 7x7 area if it has no supports or any walls within it.
A popular digging pattern:

code:

X......X......X......
.....................
.....................
.....................
.....................
.....................
.....................


Notice how there are no isolated 7x7 blocks. If there ever are any 7x7 spaces, they collapse after a time and can kill/injure your dwarves.

Farms can ONLY be built in the cavern. The first step you must take is to dig a channel from a water source, and then end the channel with a floodgate. Then, attach that floodgate to a lever so that you can flood the farmland . Once it's muddy you can put a farm plot down.

You can also dig deeper into the mountain and find the river. The river floods the banks about 10 squares out every season, so you can just use the naturally made mud for your farms as well.

I highly suggest that you check out the wiki (click here), it's VERY useful.

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Nekura

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Re: Mmhmm...
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2007, 07:48:00 am »

Thanks tons, guys! I really liked the idea of leaving natural support, I never thought of that   :) I'm sure I'll be back with questions though, thanks!  :p
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ktrey

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Re: Mmhmm...
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2007, 11:44:00 am »

Leaving a natural support is also great should you ever encounter critters or tantrum-ing dwarves who destroy buildings. A support can be destroyed, causing a cave-in.
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Nekura

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Re: Mmhmm...
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2007, 01:30:00 pm »

Hehe, that's a plus   :D

Now why I'm here...aqueducts, channels, flood gates, levers. I've read some of the irrigation section on wiki,  but I'm lazy and slow. Thanks >_>

So channels are basically artificial controlled rivers?

Aqueducts...go over stuff...that channels can't? I haven't reached the chasm so I'm not sure what kind of stuff it would go over =p The opening is where water flows into the aqueduct, do the arrows point at the opening or the direction the water will flow?

Flood gates are used on the river or just channels? What do they do exactly? I can only guess youu...build a channel to a farm with the flood gate & stone floor at the exit, open it to 'flood' the farm or get muddy terrain. Which then makes me wonder how much area it floods and how big farms even need to be to support a typical fortress.

Levers control flood gates(Open/close)? Maybe traps too...hmm.

And wells! Do they need a channel, too?

If you read all that, sorry =p Could anyone post a picture of a fortress with channels and stuff and maybe describe it(I have trouble determining what's what in a big fortress' icons xD) ^_^

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Xeirxes

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Re: Mmhmm...
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2007, 03:01:00 pm »

Channels are KIND of like rivers, but a lot of the functions that work on the river simply don't work on channels (you can't have a mill running from a channel's water supply, nor a magma forge running from a lava channel's magma supply). They are usually used to get a flood started somewhere else, i.e. if you wanted to farm all the way in the mountain you could use a channel to get the water there.

Aqueducts are used to pass over different liquids that you DON'T want to touch; i.e. if you wanted a moat filled with lava, you'd have to aqueduct it over the chasm and the river before you could get it to the front gates. They're kind of buggy right now though, I haven't used them at all so I'm not too knowledgable on them. The openings on the aqueduct designate (I'm pretty sure about this) both ends of the duct, so if you want a aqueduct going right over the river and you were doing it in a left-right sort of fashion, you'd want the openings on both the left and the right.

Flood gates can be used on both channels and the river. When they're activated, they basically become a different kind of tile. It's important to note that gates attached to the river will become channels when you open them, but gates attached to channels will become flood spawn points when you open them. So if you wanted to flood a plot right next to the river, you would put two floodgates next to eachother like so:

code:

....~~~
.....~~
....~~~
..XX~~~
.....~~
......~
......~

That way, the first floodgate, when opened, becomes a channel; the next floodgate causes the flood to happen. If you want a plot to flood that's some distance away from the river, you might do it this way:

code:

###################...~~~
#.....##############...~~
#.....#############...~~~
#.....X______________X~~~
#.....#############...~~~
#.....############.....~~
####################....~


Where X are floodgates, # is walls, . is floor, _ is channel and ~ is river spaces.

The floods are infinitely large. Yes, INFINITELY large. If you flood an unclosed area it WILL flood the entire map and you'll all die. Something very important: if the floodwater from a channel EVER touches the outside river, it will permanently flood the entire map and you'll either have to give up or find some way of causing an unflood event, but I don't know much about this.

To support a fledgling fortress, 30-40 squares of farm plots dedicated to growing Plump Helmets should be sufficient. This number will definitely grow as you get more farmers and of course more people.

Levers open and close floodgates, but traps (I think) are mostly activated by themselves, on their own square. But you can set up pressure pads and link up floodgates, bridges, etc. to them. It opens the way for a lot of ingenious player-designed traps.

Wells don't need a channel, all they need is an architect, a miner, some stone blocks and a bucket. I assume the miner needs a pick too.

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Poil

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Re: Mmhmm...
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2007, 05:21:00 pm »

When building aqueducts over the river, make sure you build it in one big piece with no openings touching the water or the water will flood up on the aqueduct causing a flood.

You can unflood the world by flooding it with lava and then closing the floodgate which let out the lava. I don't know what happens if the lava flood reaches the lava river, but it can't be pleasant.

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qwip

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Re: Mmhmm...
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2007, 07:31:00 pm »

Nekura,

Some friendly advice while you're still figuring the game out:
1) skip the aqueducts for now
2) check out irrigation and farming on the wiki
3) create back-ups of your entire save file before pulling ANY levers attached to floodgates or doors until you understand perma-floods
4) "losing is fun", expect to abandon a few fortresses in the beginning...

good luck!

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qwip

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puke

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Re: Mmhmm...
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2007, 02:14:00 am »

back to the first batch of questions, light and dark stone actually have higher market value than grey, when made into stuff.
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Nekura

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Re: Mmhmm...
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2007, 08:35:00 am »

Is the only way to have fortifications at the main entrance by carving it out like that in the first place and putting doors where you had to go through? Cause if that's not the case then I still haven't figured it out...

I had the two flood gate system but the lever I attached to the flood gate wouldn't do its task. It stayed there for a while just saying "Attach to a building" or whatever. And when you have two flood gates do you need two levers or could I just link them both to the same one.

p.s. 4) I've already restarted alot so I don't really need to expect it anymore ;p I flooded myself a few times, oh and do I need to use fortifications/doors to block off the farm area?

I obviously haven't built any yet so what do door and fort tiles look like? I have a picture and I've been assuming the big + things are doors or something.

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schnobs

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Re: Mmhmm...
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2007, 09:17:00 am »

Depends on what +'s you're talking about. Grey rectangulars with an actual plus sign are doors. (they may also be white or black when made of white/dark stone). Doors, when closed, will stop water.

Fortifications, too, somehow resemble a plus sign but actually are something ANSI. Four right angles in the cornes leaving a cross-shaped section clear. Fortifications will NOT stop water.

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Bas Cost Budde

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Re: Mmhmm...
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2007, 05:38:00 pm »

You can link up a lever to as many buildings as you like. I use that often, flooding a channel with one lever, and flooding several separate farming areas from another lever.

Being a control freak, I often have one coarse lever (opening floodgates to all farms simultaneously) and fine levers in high-traffic areas (that open one area at a time). It is perfectly possible for one floodgate to respond to more than one lever.

And, since you can only link one building to the same trigger once, you can find out what is linked already by walking the list of options. Those missing are the ones linked.

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Nekura

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Re: Mmhmm...
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2007, 06:20:00 pm »

Thanks for the replies everyone, another question, what do you tend to do about all the stone lying around? I can't really find a way to use it fast enough and I'm tired of having only partial stockpiles, farms, and detailed floors =/ Is it just easier to wait til you get alot more immigrants to clean it up?
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Bas Cost Budde

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Re: Mmhmm...
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2007, 06:53:00 pm »

It's a matter of balance, IMO. To 'clean up' all this stone could mean either moving it to a pile (which takes time and keeps your personnel away from other tasks) or eating it by making blocks and crafts out of it.

You may want to consider using a moving mason workshop. Let your mason clear out one area--I recommend a pile for the finished objects nevertheless, clutter is far worse on your production than delayed hauling--and then remove the workshop and place it somewhere else.

You are aware of removing hauling tasks from dwarfs you need elsewhere, are you? The fewer dwarfs may haul stone, the less stones get locked by a hauling task and hence cannot be used/moved on the spot.

Just left alone, stone doesn't seem to block or impair movement.

[ March 16, 2007: Message edited by: Bas Cost Budde ]

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