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[Vherid]

So I want to open this up and ask a few questions.

How do you feel about the current balance of weapons?
We're talking, prices, damage, the fact the AK and M4 are the same, what do you think about it all as it currently stands.

Would you like a few more weapons?
I'm not talking a huge addition of weapons, but maybe you'd like a TEC-9 and a MAC10 as much as just an MP5.

Do you like the vague names, or do you want real names?
Knife, Pistol, .45 Semiauto, etc. Do you like it like this, or would you want more real names?

Is there anything else here, that I have not listed you might want to mention?

What are your feelings on all of these subjects, because if possible, I would like to give the weapons in this game, a nice and accurate rehaul. In the mods I've worked on I've mostly tanked through a big spreadsheet of all the weapons so that I could balance them in every aspect, and turning in a revolver is not going to get you less money then turning in a shank, not that that was an issue, but that's an example.

[Jonathan S. Fox]

Do you like the vague names, or do you want real names?
Knife, Pistol, .45 Semiauto, etc. Do you like it like this, or would you want more real names?

The most important thing about the names, in my view, is that they're iconic and easy to understand. MP5 SMG says "SMG" in the name. "Pump Shotgun" makes it clear that it's a shotgun. If you renamed Pump Shotgun to Remington Model 870, most players wouldn't know what they were looking at, what skill it used, or why they'd want it.

In the last version of LCS that Tarn Adams touched, pistols were broken out into revolvers (.22 and .44 magnum) and semiautomatic pistols (9mm and .45), and rifles were broken out into shotgun, M16, and AK47. So the only actually named guns were the iconic infantry rifles of the US and USSR in the cold war. I try to keep this in mind while working with the range of weapons in the game -- it's important that the game bring the player with if it's going to increase in complexity. Detail and novelty is wasted if it leaves players in confusion.

[Cheedows]

Actually, instead of more guns more melee or other weapons would be LCS like.  Antique crossbows, machetes, etc.  Some DF easter-eggs would be hilarious, but that is up to Jonathan

[Vherid]

Do you like the vague names, or do you want real names?
Knife, Pistol, .45 Semiauto, etc. Do you like it like this, or would you want more real names?

The most important thing about the names, in my view, is that they're iconic and easy to understand. MP5 SMG says "SMG" in the name. "Pump Shotgun" makes it clear that it's a shotgun. If you renamed Pump Shotgun to Remington Model 870, most players wouldn't know what they were looking at, what skill it used, or why they'd want it.

In the last version of LCS that Tarn Adams touched, pistols were broken out into revolvers (.22 and .44 magnum) and semiautomatic pistols (9mm and .45), and rifles were broken out into shotgun, M16, and AK47. So the only actually named guns were the iconic infantry rifles of the US and USSR in the cold war. I try to keep this in mind while working with the range of weapons in the game -- it's important that the game bring the player with if it's going to increase in complexity. Detail and novelty is wasted if it leaves players in confusion.

Yes that's definitely one of the things I noticed and agreed with a bit.

Actually, instead of more guns more melee or other weapons would be LCS like.  Antique crossbows, machetes, etc.  Some DF easter-eggs would be hilarious, but that is up to Jonathan

More melee stuff is also viable, I think my mods have too much, but maybe throwing in something like a machete would be nice.

[ggamer]

I think different knives would be good, a combat/kitchen/butcher knife/dagger for normal combat, a shank for secret weapons, and a hidden blade that at >10 skill insta-kills an enemy.

[Jonathan S. Fox]

I have no objection to DF easter eggs. Catch: anything that doesn't exist in the LCS universe is fictional, even if implemented. For example, a sword can be useful, but so-called "adamantine" clothing is a Halloween costume, not awesome armor.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I shall restate my desire for the AA-12 fully automatic shotgun to be included as the weapon of Hardened Mercenaries/CCS Bosses. It fills a niche that is not filled (high-power shotgun). It should have a higher chance to blast organs than other weapons.

[Alpheus]

I'd like to see for weapons:

An anti tank weapon, eg RPG-7, etc
Another sub machine gun with lower accuracy than the MP5 but higher capacity mags, like a MAC-10/11
Also want to be able to buy machine guns (M249, maybe a new one) at gun control C++

[Leafsnail]

You can buy the M249 at C (I think?) or C+ gun control, although from the Department Store rather than the gun shop.

[tenmillimaster]

So I want to open this up and ask a few questions.

How do you feel about the current balance of weapons?
We're talking, prices, damage, the fact the AK and M4 are the same, what do you think about it all as it currently stands.

Would you like a few more weapons?
I'm not talking a huge addition of weapons, but maybe you'd like a TEC-9 and a MAC10 as much as just an MP5.

Do you like the vague names, or do you want real names?
Knife, Pistol, .45 Semiauto, etc. Do you like it like this, or would you want more real names?

Is there anything else here, that I have not listed you might want to mention?

What are your feelings on all of these subjects, because if possible, I would like to give the weapons in this game, a nice and accurate rehaul. In the mods I've worked on I've mostly tanked through a big spreadsheet of all the weapons so that I could balance them in every aspect, and turning in a revolver is not going to get you less money then turning in a shank, not that that was an issue, but that's an example.

oH oh! YES!

STATS BALANCE:


Barrel length shouldn't make as many points different damage as it does in the AR15 family. I modded my game so that EVERY 5.56 weapon (m4,ar15, m249, and m16) do about the same damage, with the M4 (14.5") and the m249 (18") doing slightly less damage than the m16/ar15, under ten points difference. Most importantly, bring the M249 in line to about (10+1d251). Or 1d246 if we think 2 inches of barrel is really significantly different.

.44 magnum is a little over powered, but no ridiculously so. 44 out of a 7.5" barrel gets about 1600 J of energy. 5.56 gets about 1600 to 1700 J of energy out of a 20" barrel.  The damages (10+1d276, 44 mag) vs (10+1d251 556) should be closer in my opinion.

7.62x39 ought to do a little more damage than 5.56, but also have it's multiple hit difficulty increased. It also ought to have a bit more armor penetration. To play it safe, my game is modded so that 556 actually has its Armor pen value DECREASED by one, and the AK stays the same.

Seeing 45 peforming worse than 9mm in armor pen values would also be satisfying, and 45 outperforming 9mm in damage by about 5-15 points would be satisfying as well.

The AA12 needs to have it's successive hits chance increased significantly, to about 5 is where I have mine. Shotguns kick.


.45's really ought to have their capacity or something - the iconic all american favorite M1911 (what everyone should think of when they hear .45ACP) hold 7+1 rounds, but some of them have magazines that hold 14+1 rounds. Personally I'd go with the gun in LCS being an 1911- and rename it something like .45 1911 pistol. It's an iconic american weapon that CCS backers, high and mighty CIA agents and evil conservative Concealed Carriers would adore.

.45's are usually all about tradition. So therefore the lovely .45 pistol ought to have its capacity docked to 7+1 rounds.

9mm's need a modernization. 15 rounds of 9mm is kind of a thing of the past. The glock 17 (which has been a favorite of law enforcement and lots of conservative wrong thinkers) is pretty much now iconic for 9mm, but not really. Standard capacity for it is 17+1 rounds.
The massive beretta 92FS, issued to our troops, loved by movie makers but not as much by the public compared to the glock, is the other poster child for 9mm. IT holds 15+1 rounds, which is low for how large the damn thing is. 17 rounders are now sold by Beretta, and 18 round aftermarket magazines exist flush fit. (Larger mags exist, but don't fit totally inside the gun. CONSIDER ALL MAGS HERE FLUSH FIT). The largest 9mm I know of is the Xd-M in 9mm, which holds 19+1 rounds, with flush fit mags.

15 rounds of 9mm is a thing of the past. The 9mm pistol needs to go up to 17 rounds.

TEXT AND FLAVOR: Doing just fine the way we are, but pistol names would be nice.
.50AE Desert Eagle sounds nice, and the caliber is a distinction I feel the LCS would make. "50 caliber! Those gun shoot like, plane killing bullets man!"

.45 1911 Pistol also helps add the iconic-ness to the .45 semiauto. Plus it helps clarify just what the .45 semiauto is. (semiautomatic rifle? semiautomatic carbine? I like that the names are quick and easy, but .45 Semi auto needs pistol in the name.)
9mm Beretta Pistol, or 9mm 92FS pistol instantly brings to mind the right image. I would suggest glocks as they're more popular, but then the military would have the wrong gun on base.


Other than that, I think the game is fine. I'd like to see sniper rifles in 308 get added (the sanitized hunting friendly rifles that the LCS loves), but they'd be useless unless we add more features like assassinations.

[Markus]

Hm. . . I wonder how weapon variety might fit in if we have foreign ultra-nationalist groups form their own crime squads -

The news files already mention the stalinist crime squad, and of course you could always throw in a Nazi crime squad that might bring with themselves iconic german weapons. . . and, well, maybe a not so iconic german super weapon. . .
I mean a Maus MK. II high power secret military project backed by german extremists to damage America from the inside out. Basically, I want an excuse for a stronger tank as a boss. One that can take on "Liberal Armored Vehicles."
Then again, I don't really know how much the "average" person knows about guns-I was raised with them, had many weapons-especially German weapons-names and origin were recited to me as though they were the greatest, for all intents and purposes, raised alongside them and the military. 
At least the Maus is somewhat more well known now, thanks to World of Tanks. The only Maus was half finished anyways.
Other than that, perhaps some iconic weapons from movies? I'm sure any bond fan would recognize the Walter PPK (If they saw it.), though I don't see how it could possibly fill in any niche in the weapon variety we already have-it's no special pistol by most marks. Perhaps make it special in that it could be hidden from view with ANY clothing/armor besides naked. Probably.

I wouldn't mind some low grade explosives besides molotovs, but how to fit them into the laws is another question. Especially if somebody sees the newest LCS and screams about us "Promoting and Training terrorism" by including the ability to manufacture your own home-made bombs. Sometimes its better to wait a while. . .



And don't mind us. We're just a bunch of white text. >_>

[RenoFox]

I agree that more weapons is not really any better -  I'm going to use the best ones available anyway, and I hate having to check a wiki for whether a <series of letters and numbers> is more or less powerful than <another series of letters and numbers>.

Anti-vehicle weapons would be a great addition, but that would require liberals to be able to carry more than one item with them so they won't expend bazookas on common enemies. It would also be nice to be able to have both a spray can and a weapon, but the whole inventory reworking required would be too much I suppose.

[ed boy]

It would also be nice to be able to have both a spray can and a weapon, but the whole inventory reworking required would be too much I suppose.

I would support this. Giving the squad that ability to bring equipment along with them would open up a lot of possibilities (for example, spare disguises).

[Teh Barple]

ITT: dumb foreigners who don't know what guns are

[usr_share]

Probably allow squad members to keep secondary items (spray cans, Molotovs, crowbars), which would totally eliminate any disguise, and switch between the weapon and the item during a raid.