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[schnobs]

Well, I think I'll just go ahead and ask.

There's been plenty of screenshots of beautiful fortresses recently. I have to admit that mine absolutely cannot compete. I tried to come up with a good layout... mind-warping work.

Then I wondered... why bother with an actual layout at all? Why not knock out all walls (which are mere obstacles) and doors (which are chokepoints at best). The main part of my fortresses, therefore, would become one huge hall filled with workshops and stockpiles.

Are there any known side effects to that approach? It certainly won't be especially beautiful, that's for sure.

[qwip]

The only thing that comes to mind is security.

You may not have enough doors/gates/chokepoints except for the front door. So if siegers get past your front door, it's dwarf v goblin one on one -- without having the advantages of chokepoints and fortifications for projectile attacks against melee siegers.

The same applies to the river, chasm and magma: if you mine it out fully without leaving a wall between your living/working area and those creature-spawning features, ratmen may ambush your favorite cook deep in your kitchen without walking through Trap Central.

Oh, and seasonal flooding could possibly sweep away more dwarves and animal..?

Other than that, I think it is mostly aesthetics.

Try it and tell us how it works for you!

[ March 13, 2007: Message edited by: qwip ]

[TakiJap]

quote:Originally posted by qwip:
<STRONG>The only thing that comes to mind is security.

You may not have enough doors/gates/chokepoints except for the front door. So if siegers get past your front door, it's dwarf v goblin one on one -- without having the advantages of chokepoints and fortifications for projectile attacks against melee siegers.

[ March 13, 2007: Message edited by: qwip ]</STRONG>

A while ago I was trying to come up with some really original fortress design and thought about knocking all walls out. Then I realized it's really dangerous considering sieges. I thought what do humans do? They have only outer wall and no choke points or traps. What I needed was houses, so I started carving out a fortress imitating a human town.

Unfortunately I haven't continued building this due to other intrests and duties. It's really fun and challenging to design.

[puke]

theres one more downside to this.  unless you have closed in rooms, the rooms them selves will have a lower value and will not count as "propper rooms".  Also, they will be more likely to overlap and be further devalued.

also also, you might get pathing problems if you have huge numbers of dwarfs trying to figure out which unenclosed area is the statue garden they are going to have a party at.  or maybe that wont be a big deal, depending on how you lay out the "rooms"

of course, the "houses" idea solves this.

[schnobs]

Well, I had no plan of having no wall anywhere.  Actual rooms (dining, private quarters &c will have a wall and doors). I was talking solely about the workshops and their stockpiles.

This bazaar / plaza / forum / market will be deep in the mountain, behind several drawbridges and plenty of traps. Actually, my river defense will consist solely of traps -- the military, if I ever have one, will be stationed more towards the magma. Or maybe not, but at any rate the archery targets will be near the magma.

I can seal off the river, but towards the magma there will be a wide open space and several metalworkers and the likes. I also think about deploying "decoy dogs" on ropes next to the magma, hoping that they'll catch the first fireball.

Coming to think of it... will a second and third line of defense be any good at all? I never experienced a siege myself, but from what I gather it's difficult enough to get the dwarves into the fortress. Gathering them behind a second line can't be any easier, besides, if the first moat and drawbridge didn't stop an invader I don't think the second would.

Edit: as I have no other place to put up screenshots, the current plan is up on the Wiki. The basic idea is to knock out the remaining walls between the seperate working areas.

[ March 13, 2007: Message edited by: schnobs ]

[Kylaer]

Knock out ALL the walls except for support columns every 7 spaces. Don't leave any private rooms; you can make them out of doors, just lock all the doors except for whichever one you want to be the "real" door. You can "seed" the doors off a statue. Then the sky's the limit! Or rather, the adamantine...

[Grek]

This is a great idea. It solves traffic problems while looking nice and is easy to expand.

There are few things I'd do differet:
A) Beds. Dwarfs like sleeping in beds and you don't have too many of them I suppose you could dig off to the north or south, but it would have been best to have it closer to the dining room sense dwarfs often get hungry and thirsty while asleep.

B) The smithy. I see that you are in a rocky wasteland. There are not enough trees to use wood as fuel. You'll need them for beds and charcoal for steelmaking. Instead, you can use magma forging and make that space into bedrooms(and use the waterfalls soothing mists to make your dwarfs even more happy).

C) I'd build almost completly east side of the river so:
-You would be close enough to the river to farm, but too far for anybody to get washed in.
-You are that much closer to the magma.
-You have the cave river and front gate to protect you.  If things get bad you can just raise the drawbridge.
-None of the dwarfs will be in side of the river away from the drink stockpile, get thirsty and drink cave water.

Also, Kylaer's suggestion is just silly.

[TakiJap]

If you're talking about my solution, which you seem to be, I've thought about all of that.

A) I don't have lots of beds yet because of wasteland, but few years and all those tower-caps around my riverside are ready to be fell. Until that I try to keep my carpenters busy in other jobs and dwarfes generally happy by other means. Also I'm not sure where would be the best place to carve next living houses, but that sounds good.

B) Rocky wasteland was chosen for extra challenge and I think I'll have enough trees for large scale furnacing in about four years since I have low population cap (70). FPS issues. Also I'm not sure if I want to dig to magma when I only have 70 dwarfes at max.

C)I've been planning to demolish that dining room in sometimes future and move it east of food stockpiles. East of that would become the inner wall and behind that would become the keep. Further east the city goes, everything becomes richer. Bigger houses, more nobles, better workshops and lot safer living enviroments.

[ March 15, 2007: Message edited by: TakiJap ]