Toony:@IronyOwl:
-Toaster asks who you think killed Tiruin and ZU.
-You say "if anybody" killed Tiruin it was probably the witches. You're less sure about ZU, but suspect maybe they suicided.
-I ask you why somebody else killing Tiruin isn't valid, even though ZU killing himself might be.
-You say witches don't have a kill, but they do have a motive so they're the most likely anyway. You reiterate that the DS might have done something, but couldn't have killed both himself and Tiruin, hence it must have been witches again. You say you don't know of any other parties that would do that.
So, to recap:
-Somebody killed Tiruin
-Witches probably don't have a kill
-Witches probably killed Tiruin
-Third parties couldn't have killed Tiruin or ZU
-ZU might have killed himself, but not Tiruin
This seem right so far?
Alright, following the logic train I create would turn into a wreck so let's correct this:
-Somebody killed Tiruin
-Witches probably killed Tiruin but not necessarily
-Third parties could have killed Tiruin or ZU
-ZU might have killed himself, but not Tiruin
-Tiruin has no reason to kill themselves
If the witches didn't kill Tiruin, somebody else did. If somebody else didn't kill Tiruin, the witches did.
Then why'd you say that instead of this?
And I was completely right about Toaster (in an inverse way, but still completely right). I also made my own opinions before Dariush said anything, read the log I posted. Who do I still think is a witch? There is only one left and it has to be either you (or Lenglon if it somehow isn't you). And no, unfortunately I don't have concrete proof who the last witch is, but that would make it too easy anyway.
Do you have any proof? Near as I can tell your case on me is "Fuck you." I don't recall your case on Lenglon at all.
A summary of my case is at the bottom here.
If it somehow isn't you then it must be Lenglon (or Shakerag now that I think about it), but it's not a possibility I can see ever unless you're dead and flip not-witch mother.
Against Toaster, yeah. What does your case against Toaster have to do with me?
And I thought you had good reason to believe Lenglon was town? What makes her more suspect than birdy, who you have similar assurances about, or Hapah, who you don't even have that much on?
Yes, that's a plausible explanation. But given how much importance LNCP places on flavor, doesn't it seem more likely that it wouldn't be a red herring, and that those are genuine clues about your true nature?
Which is why I said voting me over it is perfectly fine. I have no counter-argument. I'm not going to lie.
That's twice now you're talking about what other people think rather than why other people should think that.
Okay? You're a dumb witch that can't figure a good reason to vote me but has been trying to for the last two days (and funny enough after I gave my spiel and voted Toaster yesterday, HMMMMMM).
These two seem rather at odds with each other, in addition to being an angry dodge in the latter case.
Okay. How is letting you vote me over a stupid reason (which I can't stop you from doing) the same as locating exactly where you get so hostile on my ass?
So... my reason is stupid but valid, and you're calling me a witch over it because you don't have to stand for that?
Did you just admit to OMGUSing me?
IronyOwl, besides being my obvious choice carrying over from yesterday, Leafsnail gets murdered by a plant thing and flips town (I think that's town?) so my doubts I had with agreeing with him are pretty much cleared.
I think so, and what is this, appeal to authority from a confirmed townie who listed a brief, unexplained "yeah that might make sense?"
Nope. I was suspicious of Toaster and voted him before Leafsnail even had an inkling of a clue. In fact, his vote on me was what gave me the excuse to say what I had planning. Don't get mad that your partner died and Dariush made a dumb move.
Eh? What does voting Toaster have to do with agreeing with Leafsnail while voting me?
It means that while I agree with Leafsnail, I got first dibs and he came as like, a shock wave from my explosion. Capisce?
I get that you're claiming hipster rights on voting Toaster. I don't get what that has to do with the original quote up there.
-The gruesome killings did not begin until after ZU's death. This, while not bulletproof, is fairly compelling evidence that ZU is our Death Shaman.
They also didn't happen immediately after ZU's death, though. You could almost as convincingly argue Toaster's death triggered them somehow.
Do you not think ZU is the Death Shaman at this point? Who would they be?
Well, there's you. Shakerag is an option if the out-of-town thing holds, which I'm still dubious on (and ZU might hold fine as well). Gut says he's the last witch, though. Might explain Lenglon's Let's Do What Toaster Says And Kill Me plan, though I don't especially think so. Basically anyone, though you and ZU are the only real good options.
As for whether I think ZU is the Death Shaman... that's tricky. Everyone assumed it was him because he didn't flip, but not flipping isn't necessarily a DS thing. That explanation made more sense when we hadn't seen any other flips, because then it could be that non-town flips were obtuse. Turns out they aren't; every other town, scum, and third-party flip so far has supplied its name.
So his lack of flip is
uniquely due to his role. That might make sense for the DS, to protect him from being outed and rezzed when he did exactly what he needed to do. But it's definitely not a guarantee just because he's not acting like a standard town flip.
Other than that, and more recently, we've got the kills. I like the notion of the DS only being able to kill while dead, and supposedly the timing fits, but again, it's an assumption.
So I guess the short answer is that it seems likely, but I start to get nervous when people talk about it being 100% confirmed.
Hapah:The not having children part seems more ominous, however. Why would that be a noteworthy detail? Is his house barren under his sigil of death? Was it easier to replace the real Viscount if he didn't have any children to get in the way? Is his wife's infidelity or lack of intimacy relevant to something?
It's funny how a night's sleep can give you new perspective. I just thought of something that would explain why it was added quite easily, though I'm hesitant to go any further down that road as I fear it would be a distraction. Suffice it to say I think I have a handle on what it means, and it's not overly malicious (and might not be malicious at all). There are bigger fish at the moment.
Well what am I supposed to do with this then? You've got reason to believe Toony's not necessarily suspect but can't share it?
They also didn't happen immediately after ZU's death, though. You could almost as convincingly argue Toaster's death triggered them somehow.
They happened the first night that ZU was dead. I'm guessing he has a night-phase kill that he can only use when he's dead, and since he wasn't dead when N2 started he couldn't use it then.
Ah. I misremembered the timing, then.
Heh. Naturally our flavorcop is one of the primary suspects by this method.
NQT being the Death Shaman would be amazing, though there's the small problem of "I don't know why he'd drag an entire Inquisition along with him".
That'd actually be pretty damned poetic. The greater concern, I think, is why a Death Shaman would also be a Flavor Cop.
NQT:Irony Owl
NQT was also fine tying the vote to save his scummy hide. Why would I care what he thinks?
Hah, okay, now you have to hang. I'm a proven flavour cop. It was my investigations that got the first witch hung. Both known witches were out to kill me at one time or another. Deathsword also tried to have me lynched on the most bullshit of pretexts (addressing the town as 'town'). You've actively stated you're ambivalent about hunting witches. I can't honestly believe that you're pro-town.
Oh? So you've got role-related reasons for suspecting me?
That's a funny way to spell "scumhunted," and Deathsword's case on you was underdeveloped but entirely valid.
What was my stated reason for being ambivalent to hunting witches, again?
And then you say this:
No opinions on anyone else, save NQT who seems town because of his willingness to tie the vote to save himself. My gut didn't like him, he did that, I went "OH! That's why I don't like him, he's naturally scummy!" Ironic and strange, but that's my take.
So, I seem town but nevertheless you shouldn't care what I think? Well, what is it?
Perhaps that was a bit harsh. What I meant was that you're probably town, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't suspect anybody you don't suspect.
On travellers
Mph. Nothing useful for me, unless I'm misremembering some replacements or NQT can confirm somebody as a traveler or something.
According to my notes: Vector's and Lenglon are from out of town but been here long enough to become established, Toonyman and Griffinpup are unconfirmed natives, Birdy and Solifuge are confirmed native, I'm not sure about Irony Owl or Zombie Urist for that matter. I'm from out of town. Being native isn't an indicator of towniness, as the Dark Child was a local.
Well, the theory was on Shamans specifically, not town. I don't think it's useful regardless, though.
Lenglon:Just reviewed day one, and my opinion that Irony is the final witch has solidified further. Irony in retrospect was quite clearly out for Tiruin's blood, as was Toaster. Since I think the Witches were honest about their wincon being to have the DS alive and unable to die, and the LS dead and unable to rez - such an attitude clearly forwards their wincon.
Why is this a vague public service announcement and not a case directed at me using quotes?
Also I don't know about Deathsword, but for me specifically the out for Tiruin's blood part is
clearly bullshit.birdy:If he is a third party… Then why bother with him? All we need to do is lynch the final witch to win, so why bother with the Third Party games?
Well, in part because I'm actually suspicious of him for concrete reasons. I'm going on far less trying to figure out the last witch.
Other than that, I'm worried about the shaman state thing and the rift and so on. Will we actually win once we kill all the witches, or do we need the shamans in some state like LS theorized?
I mean, if I was relatively certain of who the last witch was I'd probably lynch them, but I'm not as optimistic as I'd like to be that that'll really be the end of it. As an example, Dark Child. Not listed anywhere in our wincons, quite possible a serial killer. Would we have won anyway if he'd still been alive when we gutted the last witch, or would the game have kept going? LNCP said he'd never lie to us, but he did say omitting information didn't count. I really don't want to find out that applies to our wincon the hard way.
Finally, third parties are relevant to who's the last witch. Obviously not so much in Toony's case, but consider, say, Lenglon. If ZU's the DS and Lenglon is really scummy, we can just call her a witch and be done with it. If it turns out ZU's not the DS... well, that might be an error.
Shakerag:IronyOwl: I'm not going to quote your whole thing about ToonyMan, but I would like to note that according to my flavor, I was heading to this town to appeal to the viscountess for some kind of financial mercy, and that there was news that she was soon to marry. Apparently, the viscountess was out of town for about a year and then came home with her new husband. Worth noting and adding to the ongoing flavor investigation.
That's interesting. How long ago was it you were heading here? Toony's supposed to have been married for three years or so, wasn't it?
Unrelated: Do you think we should have chain No-Lynched like you suggested after Tiruin's claim?
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Topic: Witches' Coven: In the Heart of Darkness [GAME OVER: 4/13] (Read 203396 times)