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[Hapah]

Extend if it's not too late.

[Jim Groovester]

Votecount:

IronyOwl	- 3 -	Lenglon, ToonyMan, Shakerag
Hapah	- 1 -	notquitethere
Lenglon	- 0 -
notquitethere	- 0 -
birdy51	- 0 -
Toonyman	- 1 -	IronyOwl
Shakerag	- 0 -
-
Not Voting	- 4 -	birdy51, Hapah
No Lynch	- 0 -
-
Extend	- 2 -	IronyOwl, Hapah
Shorten	- 0 -

The Day will end Saturday, 21st of September, 7PM UTC, in 13 hours.

Three votes required to extend the day with two cast.

Though, shouldn't the day have ended already?

Technically, yes. So I'm going to mod-extend the day 24 hours to the time listed above. If a third vote appears I will only extend the day to Sunday, as if the day had been extended normally.

If a third vote does not appear by the time of the deadline (2:00 PM forum time, for reference), I will end the day at the listed time or at the earliest opportunity. I will not count extension requests after the deadline.

So if you want the game extended, be quick about it.

[Lenglon]

Extend
discussion is good as long as people will actually post something, and Irony did eventually post. which I wasn't expecting considering yesterday's disappearance.
I think the burn mark signified that the dark child was an arsonist. but also that the dark child isn't the same as the death shaman
I think the overkill shown in Leaf's death shows that it was intended for the Life Shaman - Kill and cannot be ressurected - and that it was used by the final witch.
Irony, I thought Leaf was anything but town because I found Leaf's actions to be hypocritical and demonstrating zero analysis. I appear to have been wrong.
Irony: why didn't you post at all throughout toaster's witch claim? and why did it take you so long to post today?

[notquitethere]

(Really sorry, there's a lot I want to respond to here but I've got a busy day ahead. Irony Owl for now, but extend and I'll try to get some decent analysis in by Sunday evening.)

[Jim Groovester]

The Day has been extended to Sunday, 22nd of September, 7PM UTC.

[ToonyMan]

@IronyOwl:

Your "who killed who" last night logic is dumb, remember how far ZU got by picking at my fucking grammar, nowhere.  More likely than not, my brain-damaged logic has erred in some way.  Stay calm and carry on.

However, now that I know you're not completely dodging, stop dodging. What was your thought process at the time, and why did it result in you saying what you said?

Uh, this is referring to who I thought killed Tiruin, correct?  I said if it would be anybody, the witches would make the most sense or something.  Dariush said they don't have a kill, but I have to place doubt on that.  Especially with tonight's events with two deaths.  I feel like I detailed my logic to this weeks ago.

Dariush never explicitly dismisses Leafsnail, that was Vector/whoever the fuck now.  He picked LS as his #2 Death Shaman.

Oh, so your "these people definitely can't be the DS" reasoning was based entirely on the public musings of someone you assumed was a witch? Do you still think they're a witch? You don't even know who they are, so...?

And I was completely right about Toaster (in an inverse way, but still completely right).  I also made my own opinions before Dariush said anything, read the log I posted.  Who do I still think is a witch?  There is only one left and it has to be either you (or Lenglon if it somehow isn't you).  And no, unfortunately I don't have concrete proof who the last witch is, but that would make it too easy anyway.

LNCP probably changed my history to throw suspicion on my character (the same way he "isn't fond of hunting witches").  If you want that as a vote reason than sure, NQT seems fine with it though.

NQT was also fine tying the vote to save his scummy hide. Why would I care what he thinks?

Because I think NQT is town and you think NQT is town.  If with both agree then his opinion should be completely valid.

Yes, that's a plausible explanation. But given how much importance LNCP places on flavor, doesn't it seem more likely that it wouldn't be a red herring, and that those are genuine clues about your true nature?

Which is why I said voting me over it is perfectly fine.  I have no counter-argument.  I'm not going to lie.

Arguably the following could also still be relevant even if you're insisting on trying to dodge/disown your prior statements thing entirely as well:

For that matter, do you think nobody being responsible is a valid possibility?

It's possible, but entirely unlikely in my opinion.  If that's the case then what would this responsibility be, the rift?

That's why I want to know why you don't think it's the DS and think it's probably the witches but probably not the witches.

I don't understand what you are saying.

IronyOwl, besides being my obvious choice carrying over from yesterday, Leafsnail gets murdered by a plant thing and flips town (I think that's town?) so my doubts I had with agreeing with him are pretty much cleared.

I think so, and what is this, appeal to authority from a confirmed townie who listed a brief, unexplained "yeah that might make sense?"

Nope.  I was suspicious of Toaster and voted him before Leafsnail even had an inkling of a clue.  In fact, his vote on me was what gave me the excuse to say what I had planning.  Don't get mad that your partner died and Dariush made a dumb move.

That's twice now you're talking about what other people think rather than why other people should think that.

Okay?  You're a dumb witch that can't figure a good reason to vote me but has been trying to for the last two days (and funny enough after I gave my spiel and voted Toaster yesterday, HMMMMMM).


@NQT:
Why did you get a result that I was sheltering Shakerag?  It seems Shakerag does work at my castle (which I didn't know), but well, I guess you were trying to "rile me up" and get a possibly incriminating piece of evidence or statement.


LNCP hasn't responded yet to my questions, but he hasn't posted yet either.

[ToonyMan]

@Lenglon, Shakerag:
Did you mention having kids?  I don't want to look back I'm busy...

[birdy51]

Shakerag:

birdy51:  Who's your pick for the last witch?

Not sure. So instead, I'll supply you with my own reads.

From what we know, we have a two players of ours who can be reasonably safe from suspect. NQT has proven his worth in reeling in the scum twice now, and has been diligent about looking into people's flavor. Toonyman had communication with the witches via Dariush. This in itself suggests that he is not a witch, as I doubt the idea of the witches using a creative trick to deceive us.

Then we have one who innocence has not been confirmed, but we can reasonably infer her innocence. Lenglon falls into cleanly into this category, having been the only one to actually claim being a crone. Now that the real crone, Toaster, is dead and gone, it's worth giving Lenglon the benefit of the doubt. (Again, barring creative tricks)

And of course, I am what I am. A townie with a dead little brother who may or may not have been in league with the devil >.>;


So… In my own mind, we only have three suspects, Ironyowl, Hapah, and you, Shakerag.

I am willing to stake both my life on the fact that one of you three are the last witch. It's just a matter of determining which one of you are the witch. So in turn, questions. I already gave you a few questions yesterday, so I shall refrain from asking you something right now.

Hapah:

I propose the same question to IronyOwl to you. What is your agenda for the day?

IronyOwl:

birdy:

IronyOwl: We have not interacted much in this game so far, which is a bit of a shame. How come? Also what is your agenda for the day?

That is a shame. Presumably we've just never gotten around to scumhunting each other. You're a replacement for someone, aren't you?

My agenda for the day is mainly to figure out ToonyMan. Other than that, the usual of figuring out everyone else and whether we have any wincon shenanigans.

Indeed! We have done very little scumhunting of one another since I replaced in for Ottofar. Better late than never I suppose.

First question. You have suspicions of Toonyman, so you voted against him. What I don't know however, is whether you suspect of him of being scum. Do you?


Now, on a less hunty, kill-kill note…

ToonyMan:

Lenglon and Birdy are probably town, I just got an intuition buzz for some reason.

This is a bit of an old quote, but I finally noticed it and now I am curious. What made you assume that both me and Lenglon are Town?

[Lenglon]

@Lenglon, Shakerag:
Did you mention having kids?  I don't want to look back I'm busy...

...a lovely wife who had given me a daughter and had a son on the way, but then the plague hit. first it took my customers, then my parents, then my daughter, and then my wife...

I used to have kids.

[Jim Groovester]

Votecount:

IronyOwl	- 4 -	Lenglon, ToonyMan, Shakerag, notquitethere
Hapah	- 0 -
Lenglon	- 0 -
notquitethere	- 0 -
birdy51	- 0 -
Toonyman	- 1 -	IronyOwl
Shakerag	- 0 -
-
Not Voting	- 4 -	birdy51, Hapah
No Lynch	- 0 -
-
Extend	- 0 -
Shorten	- 0 -

The Day will end Sunday, 22nd of September, 7PM UTC, in 15 hours.

Three votes required to extend. Three extensions remain.


I mean it this time! The day will end as scheduled, unless extended.

[Hapah]

Disclaimer: It's late-o-clock but I really owed this game a post. Also Extend. (PPE: LOL I saved this from the browser into Notepad, shut down, and went to brush my teeth before realizing I didn't post it!)

Apologies for the late post!

Leng

Irony: it appeared to me that yesterday you were co-operating with the witch before the witch proposed their plan. this indicates that you had a private communication channel with them, most likely from being one of them.

Could you link an example or two, or just around what post number this happened? I mostly just see IO being in about the same boat I am.

sure
notice:
1) the unexplained and unexplainable extend
2) where the vote is and why (hint: accusing Toony of hiding something that the mod had just explained wasn't supposed to be a problem.)
3) the fact that it is the final post made, with NO input or vote shifting throughout Toaster's claim

1.) It's hardly unexplainable. Maybe Irony just wanted more time? (PPE: Looks like he said as much himself)
2.) Where did LNCP say it wasn't supposed to be a problem? It may be very much relevant.
3.) I'll grant you that one. He might've just been busy, though: I'd expect some sort of post if he was the Witch or a townie.

Hapah:  Where are you going with those mod questions?

Just wanted to make sure I wasn't totally off-base speculating that we have to deal with the Shamans as well as the Witches. With those replies, I'm almost certain that's the case.

Yes, that's a plausible explanation. But given how much importance LNCP places on flavor, doesn't it seem more likely that it wouldn't be a red herring, and that those are genuine clues about your true nature?

What do you think that would entail?

I think the overkill shown in Leaf's death shows that it was intended for the Life Shaman - Kill and cannot be ressurected - and that it was used by the final witch.

That's interesting, but leaves the very relevant question of why the Life Shaman didn't catch it N2. Tir had the "peaceful" sort of death, and Witches would've had no reason to not use it with the Life Shaman exposed if it would've put her down for the count. (And if the Witches are telling the truth about their wincon, firing that thing off at Leafsnail without knowing who the DS is could lead to an insta-loss).

My money is on the gruesome death being the work of the Death Shaman (note the "overripe fruit and sodden vegetables" in the flavor: they were likely healthy when he went to bed and were rapidly decayed during the attack, since who sleeps next to/on top of a bunch of rotting produce)? The peaceful deaths are either the Dark Child (soul harvest?) or the Witches (no idea).

I propose the same question to IronyOwl to you. What is your agenda for the day?

My agenda for the day is, now that I know that the listed wincon might not be the only one, to work out who the Death Shaman is and figure out if they are (hopefully) among the living. To that end, here are a few things I've noticed:

-The gruesome killings did not begin until after ZU's death. This, while not bulletproof, is fairly compelling evidence that ZU is our Death Shaman.
-I believe both Shamans were recent (likely very recent) arrivals. Otherwise, this town would've been screwed if one of them was here for months or years beforehand.
-A great many of our listed professions aren't something you could pull out of hat: carpenters, stonemasons, these lines of work need tools, materials, and (most importantly) property. I don't think anyone's ever seen a stonemason working on a streetcorner, yeah?
     -(The initial flavor-claim compilation post is here, for those of you following along).
-Therefore, anyone that has property is likely not the Shaman. It's also worth noting that the one person who directly claimed outsider (Tiruin) turned out the be the Life Shaman. NQT, you're my go-to guy here: what can you add?
     -This can likely be extended to anyone whose residence in the town can be verified to date back for some time (i.e. the Count probably isn't the Shaman, and he may be able to vouch for those living in the castle/keep/whatever).
-This doesn't help find Witches, but they're not my concern at the moment.

I'd love to add some more, but it's 3:30 in the morning. I'll try to stay on top of this tomorrow.

[IronyOwl]

Extend. Day ends in, what, 8 hours?


Lenglon:

Irony: why didn't you post at all throughout toaster's witch claim? and why did it take you so long to post today?

Busy and distracted, and my posts tend to be fairly long. This also creates a bit of a snowball effect, in that the longer I wait the longer the posts need to be.


ToonyMan:

@IronyOwl:

Your "who killed who" last night logic is dumb, remember how far ZU got by picking at my fucking grammar, nowhere.  More likely than not, my brain-damaged logic has erred in some way.  Stay calm and carry on.

However, now that I know you're not completely dodging, stop dodging. What was your thought process at the time, and why did it result in you saying what you said?

Uh, this is referring to who I thought killed Tiruin, correct?  I said if it would be anybody, the witches would make the most sense or something.  Dariush said they don't have a kill, but I have to place doubt on that.  Especially with tonight's events with two deaths.  I feel like I detailed my logic to this weeks ago.

Let's start from the top, then:

Also, if the witches have no NK, who killed Tiruin and ZU?

I can't say I entirely trust their word.  So if anybody killed Tiruin it was the witches.  Don't know about ZU, might be some weird ability they have being the Death Shaman and all.  Either way somebody needs to revive them, unfortunately I don't have such capabilities.

Why so certain nobody but the witches have a kill, even though you say ZU might have killed himself?

Where do I say that?  I'm more confident the witches don't have a kill.  But the witches would want to see Tiruin dead so I listed it as the firmest possibility (though I admit the Death Shaman doing something as well is easily in the scope of things but the fact Tiruin went down last night too makes me think Zombie Urist killing himself and killing Tiruin as a bit OP, hence the witch claimed kill).  I don't know any other roles that would exist beyond witches, life shaman, death shaman, and townies (possibly vigs but why would a town vig kill Tiruin?)

-Toaster asks who you think killed Tiruin and ZU.
-You say "if anybody" killed Tiruin it was probably the witches. You're less sure about ZU, but suspect maybe they suicided.
-I ask you why somebody else killing Tiruin isn't valid, even though ZU killing himself might be.
-You say witches don't have a kill, but they do have a motive so they're the most likely anyway. You reiterate that the DS might have done something, but couldn't have killed both himself and Tiruin, hence it must have been witches again. You say you don't know of any other parties that would do that.

So, to recap:

-Somebody killed Tiruin
-Witches probably don't have a kill
-Witches probably killed Tiruin
-Third parties couldn't have killed Tiruin or ZU
-ZU might have killed himself, but not Tiruin


This seem right so far?

And I was completely right about Toaster (in an inverse way, but still completely right).  I also made my own opinions before Dariush said anything, read the log I posted.  Who do I still think is a witch?  There is only one left and it has to be either you (or Lenglon if it somehow isn't you).  And no, unfortunately I don't have concrete proof who the last witch is, but that would make it too easy anyway.

Do you have any proof? Near as I can tell your case on me is "Fuck you." I don't recall your case on Lenglon at all.

LNCP probably changed my history to throw suspicion on my character (the same way he "isn't fond of hunting witches").  If you want that as a vote reason than sure, NQT seems fine with it though.

NQT was also fine tying the vote to save his scummy hide. Why would I care what he thinks?

Because I think NQT is town and you think NQT is town.  If with both agree then his opinion should be completely valid.

Valid isn't the same as correct. Why bring this up if you're not going to do anything with it?

Yes, that's a plausible explanation. But given how much importance LNCP places on flavor, doesn't it seem more likely that it wouldn't be a red herring, and that those are genuine clues about your true nature?

Which is why I said voting me over it is perfectly fine.  I have no counter-argument.  I'm not going to lie.

That's twice now you're talking about what other people think rather than why other people should think that.

Okay?  You're a dumb witch that can't figure a good reason to vote me but has been trying to for the last two days (and funny enough after I gave my spiel and voted Toaster yesterday, HMMMMMM).

These two seem rather at odds with each other, in addition to being an angry dodge in the latter case.

IronyOwl, besides being my obvious choice carrying over from yesterday, Leafsnail gets murdered by a plant thing and flips town (I think that's town?) so my doubts I had with agreeing with him are pretty much cleared.

I think so, and what is this, appeal to authority from a confirmed townie who listed a brief, unexplained "yeah that might make sense?"

Nope.  I was suspicious of Toaster and voted him before Leafsnail even had an inkling of a clue.  In fact, his vote on me was what gave me the excuse to say what I had planning.  Don't get mad that your partner died and Dariush made a dumb move.

Eh? What does voting Toaster have to do with agreeing with Leafsnail while voting me?


birdy:

First question. You have suspicions of Toonyman, so you voted against him. What I don't know however, is whether you suspect of him of being scum. Do you?

His whole being contacted by Dariush thing is probably something he and/or his partner could have fabricated, but it does seem strange that they'd have gone through so much effort. It's possible they attempted to use it as a method of setting up witches as not necessarily opposed to town (and providing [potentially false] information to town) without outing themselves, and then got caught by the "posting PMs is/would be permissible" thing and succeeded in making fairly lifelike forgeries.

All that being said, I'm leaning more towards the far simpler explanation of him being third party of some sort.


Hapah:

Yes, that's a plausible explanation. But given how much importance LNCP places on flavor, doesn't it seem more likely that it wouldn't be a red herring, and that those are genuine clues about your true nature?

What do you think that would entail?

That is a tough one.

The "not fond of hunting witches" part, to be honest, strikes me as not especially malicious. Mainly it'd just be way too straightforward for the not-enthusiastic witchunter to actually be in LEAGUE with the witches! or something like that. Strikes me as more of a neutral or swingy thing to have flavor like that.

The not having children part seems more ominous, however. Why would that be a noteworthy detail? Is his house barren under his sigil of death? Was it easier to replace the real Viscount if he didn't have any children to get in the way? Is his wife's infidelity or lack of intimacy relevant to something?

I dunno. But I don't like the combination, especially on our liege lord.

-The gruesome killings did not begin until after ZU's death. This, while not bulletproof, is fairly compelling evidence that ZU is our Death Shaman.

They also didn't happen immediately after ZU's death, though. You could almost as convincingly argue Toaster's death triggered them somehow.

-I believe both Shamans were recent (likely very recent) arrivals. Otherwise, this town would've been screwed if one of them was here for months or years beforehand.

I don't think that's necessarily true. Certainly Tiruin could have been here without any obvious problems, I'd think.

It might also make sense for the shamans to have similar backstories (that is, being foreign), but it could also make sense for them to be opposed. I especially like the irony of the Death Shaman being the one who's been here (and ideally respected and liked) all along, whereas the Life Shaman is a filthy outsider.

That said, it's true that our Life Shaman was foreign and at least one witch was foreign-replacing-native.

-A great many of our listed professions aren't something you could pull out of hat: carpenters, stonemasons, these lines of work need tools, materials, and (most importantly) property. I don't think anyone's ever seen a stonemason working on a streetcorner, yeah?
     -(The initial flavor-claim compilation post is here, for those of you following along).
-Therefore, anyone that has property is likely not the Shaman. It's also worth noting that the one person who directly claimed outsider (Tiruin) turned out the be the Life Shaman. NQT, you're my go-to guy here: what can you add?
     -This can likely be extended to anyone whose residence in the town can be verified to date back for some time (i.e. the Count probably isn't the Shaman, and he may be able to vouch for those living in the castle/keep/whatever).
-This doesn't help find Witches, but they're not my concern at the moment.

I'd love to add some more, but it's 3:30 in the morning. I'll try to stay on top of this tomorrow.

This might be true if the aforementioned was true. Let me see if I can round up everyone's early claims; this wouldn't really help us outside NQT's inspections otherwise.

...

By "round up" I mean "quote Toony":

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Soft-claims:
Toaster

I am Jean Petit, a farmer of moderate means.  I have come into town with a wagonload of vegetables to sell this summer in the market.  Said wagon is still sitting in the stables at the inn where I'm staying.

Dariush

I am Michiel Verdomme, a tailor catering to the wealthy customers.

Deathsword

I am Pierre Guiot, merchant of fine cloth.

zombie urist

I'm Denis Le Breton, an old-clothes salesman. Not an old, clothes salesman.

Ottofar

I'm Mathieu Gendre, a journeyman stonemason

griffinpup

I'm  Estienne Moreau, a taverner in town.

Vector

"I'm Marie Bouvet, kitchen maid and widow."

ToonyMan

"I am Jacques de Crussol, 8th Viscount of Uzès!"

notquitethere

My name is Katherine Boulengier and I am a journeyman carpenter, new to this vile.

Lenglon

"I am Regnault Coullart, and I make a living making shoes."

Okami no Rei

I am Colin Fleury, Apprentice Cooper.

As a bonus I should mention Okami is withholding where he grew up.

Does the flavor mention where you grew up in?

Yes.

If so where does it say you grew up in?

I choose not to answer this question at this time.

Tiruin has been busy and Leafsnail is refusing.

Heh. Naturally our flavorcop is one of the primary suspects by this method.

Vector would also be a good one, but as I recall her replacement was murdered in the night and showed up town.

Okami was the Dark Child, wasn't he?

Mph. Nothing useful for me, unless I'm misremembering some replacements or NQT can confirm somebody as a traveler or something.

[ToonyMan]

Extend.  I was wondering why the extension was so short until I realized Jim was just gracing us with his marvellousness.

@Birdy:

ToonyMan:

Lenglon and Birdy are probably town, I just got an intuition buzz for some reason.

This is a bit of an old quote, but I finally noticed it and now I am curious. What made you assume that both me and Lenglon are Town?

Hehehe, I have reason to believe your claims and take no benefit from doubting them.  I'm pretty sure both of you are town but I probably shouldn't say why unless I was like, on the lynch rope.


@Hapah:

-The gruesome killings did not begin until after ZU's death. This, while not bulletproof, is fairly compelling evidence that ZU is our Death Shaman.

Exactly!  Come on, last witch, or anybody with a res.  Please resurrect Zombie Urist.

-I believe both Shamans were recent (likely very recent) arrivals. Otherwise, this town would've been screwed if one of them was here for months or years beforehand.
-A great many of our listed professions aren't something you could pull out of hat: carpenters, stonemasons, these lines of work need tools, materials, and (most importantly) property. I don't think anyone's ever seen a stonemason working on a streetcorner, yeah?
     -(The initial flavor-claim compilation post is here, for those of you following along).
-Therefore, anyone that has property is likely not the Shaman. It's also worth noting that the one person who directly claimed outsider (Tiruin) turned out the be the Life Shaman. NQT, you're my go-to guy here: what can you add?

This sounds good.

     -This can likely be extended to anyone whose residence in the town can be verified to date back for some time (i.e. the Count probably isn't the Shaman, and he may be able to vouch for those living in the castle/keep/whatever).

I can't vouch for Shakerag.

-This doesn't help find Witches, but they're not my concern at the moment.

And why is that?  I guess ZU is a threat right now.


@IronyOwl:

ToonyMan:

@IronyOwl:

Your "who killed who" last night logic is dumb, remember how far ZU got by picking at my fucking grammar, nowhere.  More likely than not, my brain-damaged logic has erred in some way.  Stay calm and carry on.

However, now that I know you're not completely dodging, stop dodging. What was your thought process at the time, and why did it result in you saying what you said?

Uh, this is referring to who I thought killed Tiruin, correct?  I said if it would be anybody, the witches would make the most sense or something.  Dariush said they don't have a kill, but I have to place doubt on that.  Especially with tonight's events with two deaths.  I feel like I detailed my logic to this weeks ago.

Let's start from the top, then:

Also, if the witches have no NK, who killed Tiruin and ZU?

I can't say I entirely trust their word.  So if anybody killed Tiruin it was the witches.  Don't know about ZU, might be some weird ability they have being the Death Shaman and all.  Either way somebody needs to revive them, unfortunately I don't have such capabilities.

Why so certain nobody but the witches have a kill, even though you say ZU might have killed himself?

Where do I say that?  I'm more confident the witches don't have a kill.  But the witches would want to see Tiruin dead so I listed it as the firmest possibility (though I admit the Death Shaman doing something as well is easily in the scope of things but the fact Tiruin went down last night too makes me think Zombie Urist killing himself and killing Tiruin as a bit OP, hence the witch claimed kill).  I don't know any other roles that would exist beyond witches, life shaman, death shaman, and townies (possibly vigs but why would a town vig kill Tiruin?)

-Toaster asks who you think killed Tiruin and ZU.
-You say "if anybody" killed Tiruin it was probably the witches. You're less sure about ZU, but suspect maybe they suicided.
-I ask you why somebody else killing Tiruin isn't valid, even though ZU killing himself might be.
-You say witches don't have a kill, but they do have a motive so they're the most likely anyway. You reiterate that the DS might have done something, but couldn't have killed both himself and Tiruin, hence it must have been witches again. You say you don't know of any other parties that would do that.

So, to recap:

-Somebody killed Tiruin
-Witches probably don't have a kill
-Witches probably killed Tiruin
-Third parties couldn't have killed Tiruin or ZU
-ZU might have killed himself, but not Tiruin

This seem right so far?

Alright, following the logic train I create would turn into a wreck so let's correct this:

-Somebody killed Tiruin
-Witches probably killed Tiruin but not necessarily
-Third parties could have killed Tiruin or ZU
-ZU might have killed himself, but not Tiruin
-Tiruin has no reason to kill themselves

If the witches didn't kill Tiruin, somebody else did.  If somebody else didn't kill Tiruin, the witches did.

And I was completely right about Toaster (in an inverse way, but still completely right).  I also made my own opinions before Dariush said anything, read the log I posted.  Who do I still think is a witch?  There is only one left and it has to be either you (or Lenglon if it somehow isn't you).  And no, unfortunately I don't have concrete proof who the last witch is, but that would make it too easy anyway.

Do you have any proof? Near as I can tell your case on me is "Fuck you." I don't recall your case on Lenglon at all.

A summary of my case is at the bottom here.

If it somehow isn't you then it must be Lenglon (or Shakerag now that I think about it), but it's not a possibility I can see ever unless you're dead and flip not-witch mother.

LNCP probably changed my history to throw suspicion on my character (the same way he "isn't fond of hunting witches").  If you want that as a vote reason than sure, NQT seems fine with it though.

NQT was also fine tying the vote to save his scummy hide. Why would I care what he thinks?

Because I think NQT is town and you think NQT is town.  If with both agree then his opinion should be completely valid.

Valid isn't the same as correct. Why bring this up if you're not going to do anything with it?

Because it's a slush fund!  No seriously I probably brought it up because it probably isn't a very good vote reason as in nobody else cares, and NQT shares a common ground since we both think he's town and that makes his opinion less doubtful!

Yes, that's a plausible explanation. But given how much importance LNCP places on flavor, doesn't it seem more likely that it wouldn't be a red herring, and that those are genuine clues about your true nature?

Which is why I said voting me over it is perfectly fine.  I have no counter-argument.  I'm not going to lie.

That's twice now you're talking about what other people think rather than why other people should think that.

Okay?  You're a dumb witch that can't figure a good reason to vote me but has been trying to for the last two days (and funny enough after I gave my spiel and voted Toaster yesterday, HMMMMMM).

These two seem rather at odds with each other, in addition to being an angry dodge in the latter case.

Okay.  How is letting you vote me over a stupid reason (which I can't stop you from doing) the same as locating exactly where you get so hostile on my ass?

IronyOwl, besides being my obvious choice carrying over from yesterday, Leafsnail gets murdered by a plant thing and flips town (I think that's town?) so my doubts I had with agreeing with him are pretty much cleared.

I think so, and what is this, appeal to authority from a confirmed townie who listed a brief, unexplained "yeah that might make sense?"

Nope.  I was suspicious of Toaster and voted him before Leafsnail even had an inkling of a clue.  In fact, his vote on me was what gave me the excuse to say what I had planning.  Don't get mad that your partner died and Dariush made a dumb move.

Eh? What does voting Toaster have to do with agreeing with Leafsnail while voting me?

It means that while I agree with Leafsnail, I got first dibs and he came as like, a shock wave from my explosion.  Capisce?

-The gruesome killings did not begin until after ZU's death. This, while not bulletproof, is fairly compelling evidence that ZU is our Death Shaman.

They also didn't happen immediately after ZU's death, though. You could almost as convincingly argue Toaster's death triggered them somehow.

Do you not think ZU is the Death Shaman at this point?  Who would they be?

Vector would also be a good one, but as I recall her replacement was murdered in the night and showed up town.

Vector is Shakerag so they're still alive and well at the moment.

Okami was the Dark Child, wasn't he?

Yep, turns out.

[lordnincompoop]

Votecount:

IronyOwl	- 4 -	Lenglon, ToonyMan, Shakerag, notquitethere
Hapah	- 0 -
Lenglon	- 0 -
notquitethere	- 0 -
birdy51	- 0 -
Toonyman	- 1 -	IronyOwl
Shakerag	- 0 -
-
Not Voting	- 4 -	birdy51, Hapah
No Lynch	- 0 -
-
Extend	- 0 -
Shorten	- 0 -

The Day has been extended to Tuesday, 24th of September, 7PM UTC.

Three votes to an extend. Two extensions remain.

LNCP:  Do I have any messengers I could send anywhere?

No. They were all killed D1.

[Hapah]

The not having children part seems more ominous, however. Why would that be a noteworthy detail? Is his house barren under his sigil of death? Was it easier to replace the real Viscount if he didn't have any children to get in the way? Is his wife's infidelity or lack of intimacy relevant to something?

It's funny how a night's sleep can give you new perspective. I just thought of something that would explain why it was added quite easily, though I'm hesitant to go any further down that road as I fear it would be a distraction. Suffice it to say I think I have a handle on what it means, and it's not overly malicious (and might not be malicious at all). There are bigger fish at the moment.

They also didn't happen immediately after ZU's death, though. You could almost as convincingly argue Toaster's death triggered them somehow.

They happened the first night that ZU was dead. I'm guessing he has a night-phase kill that he can only use when he's dead, and since he wasn't dead when N2 started he couldn't use it then.

That said, it's true that our Life Shaman was foreign and at least one witch was foreign-replacing-native.

It's my understanding that Witches just possess people, so they could be anyone.

Heh. Naturally our flavorcop is one of the primary suspects by this method.

NQT being the Death Shaman would be amazing, though there's the small problem of "I don't know why he'd drag an entire Inquisition along with him".

@Birdy:

ToonyMan:

Lenglon and Birdy are probably town, I just got an intuition buzz for some reason.

This is a bit of an old quote, but I finally noticed it and now I am curious. What made you assume that both me and Lenglon are Town?

Hehehe, I have reason to believe your claims and take no benefit from doubting them.  I'm pretty sure both of you are town but I probably shouldn't say why unless I was like, on the lynch rope.

I think I might see. You had some very adventurous teenage years, didn't you, Toony? How old were you when you were wed, and how old are Leng and Birdy? And you're, what, 32 years old now?