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[ToonyMan]

Lenglon and Birdy are probably town, I just got an intuition buzz for some reason.

@Leafsnail:
IronyOwl is being ridiculous I would peg them as the third witch and not Lenglon.

Looking at past WC games, I'm still inclined to think the witches are the "red herring" (scum)team. 

This has really been bugging me the most, but my wincon clearly states to eliminate all witches and while I will cooperate with game mechanics to an extend, to ask all the townies to kill themselves is crazy.

[ToonyMan]

extent*

Also, if Tiruin is telling the truth about two other third-parties (and not including the witches) then there's a missing slot.  I still think lynching Toaster today is a good idea.

[Lenglon]

Here's the thing.  Let's imagine that, against all probability and common sense, Toaster is actually telling the truth.  Let's say we go along with what he says and kills all the townies.

What incentive does he have to go for the difficult win condition that requires him to trust the shamans and risks having the game time out?  He would instead go for his standard mafia win condition.

because you are so purely focused on power-gaming sequences that you aren't even trying to read people.

Assertion 1: Toaster is telling the truth
just trust me here, toaster isn't lying.

Assertion 2: if the circumstances Toaster needs to perform the global wincon come to pass, Toaster will do it.
I'm less sure of this one, but i'm still pretty sure it'll happen... this time. i wouldn't count on it in another mafia game. but in this one... yes.

[Leafsnail]

so here's the plan you just proposed:
today: lynch me.

What?  No, today we lynch claimed witch Toaster.  Tomorrow we lynch obvious witch you.  Witch elimination complete, game won.  I don't understand how you keep reading the exact opposite of what I post.

The possible complication I can see is if your team has a once-per-day revive.  In that case we'd probably have to ask the Death Shaman to help kill you guys faster, and therefore try to make sure they can complete their wincon too.

because you are so purely focused on power-gaming sequences that you aren't even trying to read people.

I correctly read Toaster as a witch.  Even if this "secret win condition" does exist (it does not), his team was clearly gunning for their mafia win condition for the entire game.  Why should we trust them to suddenly change what they're aiming for now?

Assertion 1: Toaster is telling the truth
just trust me here, toaster isn't lying.

Hm, I wonder how you could know that...

[Leafsnail]

Like, this game is meant to be based on investigation and inference.  Give me a way in which a town player could infer that this secret win condition exists.

[Lenglon]

Leaf, how can you fail at perspective so hard?
your asserted the following:

You are probably the Witch Crone.  I suspect that Toaster is actually the one who has the revival (as Witch Mother), and you are trying to make sure he doesn't get lynched because he is the one who can bring other witches back to life.

this is the full version of what you said the "witch plan" was:

today: lynch me.
tonight: toaster revives either dariush or me, after our role has flipped
tomorrow: lynch either the claimed witch, or the roleflipped witch
tomorrow night: who cares?
day afterwards: lynch the final witch.

unless the revive wouldn't be used tonight? in which case the plan is:

today: lynch me
tonight: who cares?
tomorrow: lynch toaster

how can you possibly not see how incredibly insane that plan is? it is literally impossible for that plan to NOT fail.

[Leafsnail]

No.  The actual witch plan is "Lynch all townies, win, laugh at how stupid the townies were afterwards".  But the backup plan is "Lynch the guy who isn't the reviver so we can buy more time and keep reviving our own guys" (I already stated the witch revive may have unlimited uses).

Although actually you may just be trying to provoke me into voting you so that you can split the vote and make it less likely for Toaster to be lynched.

[Leafsnail]

In any case we can worry about this mindnumbingly stupid distraction after Toaster is dead.

[Lenglon]

ok, seriously leaf, what's your game here?
you can't possibly be this stupid.

[notquitethere]

Lenglon, insulting Leafsnail isn't a counterargument. Other than it being a neat of it were true, you've not offered much reason to go along with Toaster rather than trying to fulfil our actual wincons. You're starting to behave like a jester: you've literally asked us to lynch you.

[Lenglon]

*sigh*
yes I have, mostly because I still have some hope.
look, the hunting, the game, whatever else you want to call it, is essentially over

Toaster is the Witch Crone.
Irony is the Witch mother.

this isn't a game of mafia anymore, it's a prisoner's dilemma.

and I choose to vote for everyone winning. not just for my team to win.

if that requires my own temporary death, so be it.
if it'll make you feel better, we can have the DS nightkill me instead. it doesn't matter.

I know what I want.

Shakerag

I'm pretty sure I've made my opinion clear.

[Lenglon]

correction: who we pick to lynch today does matter, since not everyone is cooperative. nearly forgot about that.
unvote
Leafsnail
any objections?

[Leafsnail]

I guess Lenglon may actually be the unknown third-party person, IronyOwl as witch does make sense.  Whatever, I'm ignoring him from here on out since he doesn't have any actual reasons for me to believe Toaster.

[Leafsnail]

birdy51, Hapah, Solifuge: please come in here and vote for the claimed mafia member.  It would be stupid if the town allowed itself to be outvoted by the mafia and a flailing third-party.

[Lenglon]

I guess Lenglon may actually be the unknown third-party person, IronyOwl as witch does make sense.  Whatever, I'm ignoring him from here on out since he doesn't have any actual reasons for me to believe Toaster.

really? ok. what's your case for this madhouse theory?