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[notquitethere]

Solifuge

NQT, why do you need me to confirm this before you're able to explain how you came by this information? Am I to assume you have access to... family records or something?

I wanted to maximise the chance of catching you in a lie if you were going to lie. I found family records, yes.

Hapah

Anyone: Did Dar fit the profile for the Maiden? What was the deal with his shop?

I don't know how old he was but I saw no overt signs of marriage or children when I investigated his home. The shop had certain details, including signs that D had been away for a few days prior to the witch hunt. He lied about that stuff and was rightly lynched.

Shakerag

NQT:  So what's your case on Lenglon again?   Do you have reason to believe that whether a witch is a crone/mother/maiden would have an effect on who they chose to impersonate?

No case other than the fact she's the only Crone: I was prodding Lenglon into action here. You make a fine point that the witches are impersonators and this might not reflect there impersonation choice.

Toaster

No, I don't have children.  You get a vague answer because the solid answer is... none of the above.  Which of the three do you call a married man in his thirties with no children?  Too young for crone, no kids for mother, but married to strike out maiden.  I figured "none of them" wouldn't fly for an answer so I had to take some liberties.  I suppose if you want to call that old enough for crone, then crone fits better, but I don't.

The truth is more what I was looking for, yes.

NQT:  When I was inquisitor, my wincon was a bit different from the standard town wincon.  Is your wincon exactly the same as the town wincon?

Very good question, you'd like to know that wouldn't you Toaster? I've been looking back over the game and who was it that was most keen on getting Tiruin lynched just because she was a third-party? Someone that Dariush implicitly didn't rule out as being a witch in his communications? Someone who tunnelled the flavour cop incessantly day one until they were pressured off the case? You're a witch, Toaster.

[Shakerag]

birdy51:

Assuming? There is nothing to assume about the nature of our wincon.  The meaning of the word "eliminate"  seems rather clear cut. The Town wins when the witches are dead or otherwise permanently indisposed. I doubt that the Inquisition would simply allow them to go free.

It is my experience that moderators don't like to confirm certain bits of in-game information that may not be public knowledge.  Therefore I phrased the question as a hypothetical. 

Also, who's to say the inquisition would let the witches go free?  They're witches.  I have no doubt they could magically escape the town once their wincon is achieved. 

Forgive me, but isn't it a bit late in the game for RVS questions such as that one? It strikes me odd that you would ask such a question at a time so late in the game. Aside from the possibility of me flailing, what could you have possibly gained from that question?

That wasn't an RVS question.  It was a (possibly poor) attempt at evoking a reaction.  And there's no law against asking RVS-like questions late in the game if you feel that it could help build a case on someone. 

Much as it pains me, I, as co-mod, cannot answer your query.

Unacceptable!  Send him ... TO DETROIT!

[Hapah]

I could do with one more Extend too, as I'll be unavailable from tomorrow evening until late Saturday (after day-end time).

Much as it pains me, I, as co-mod, cannot answer your query.

Unacceptable!  Send him ... TO DETROIT!

This made my day, FYI.

Assuming he doesn't have a kill, anyway. Since he's a Death shaman it doesn't seem that far-fetched, yeah?

If he does the witches would need a way of shutting him down (eg a roleblock).

That makes sense. I guess they need the Life Shaman dead dead and the Death Shaman wrapped up with a bow.

Leng: Excellent find on the Tir quote. I can understand how the Life Shaman would know of the Death Shaman, but what could the other possibly be? What would be the nature of the role for the Life Shaman to be aware of it (with a great deal of certainty, apparently) on D1?

Anyone: Did Dar fit the profile for the Maiden? What was the deal with his shop?

I don't know how old he was but I saw no overt signs of marriage or children when I investigated his home. The shop had certain details, including signs that D had been away for a few days prior to the witch hunt. He lied about that stuff and was rightly lynched.

Alright, thanks. Did Dar live in the shop (I believe that would've been fairly common in that time period, though feel free to correct me), or elsewhere? If he was supposed to live there, any idea where he went?

birdy: Any idea how you and your long-lost brother happened to end up in this particular town at the same time? Did you track him here?

Anyone: How did the golem stay disguised in WC1?

More coming

[Hapah]

Leng: I must be missing regarding the last bit of your post, unless you've got a misquote happening. It looks like NQT did clarify first, right? I see his linked post on P26 and Tir's on P27.

NQT: I'm not sure I understand what you're driving at in the bit where you voted Toaster. Nobody knew you were the Inquis D1, did they?

Eh... I guess.

You're still not voting anyone, though.  Why?

The reasoning seemed plenty clear to me. I'm not voting at the moment because I'm trying to figure out the shape of the game (and I've got a couple of questions pending with LNCP to that end). You've got to know the rules if you want to win. Seems like half the town thinks you're a Witch, I'll have to read all your content when I find the time...I still feel like I'm trying to catch a moving train with the game, honestly.

[Leafsnail]

Toaster: If you, as a witch, seriously believe that your win condition is compatible with that of the town, then I suggest you claim now and give us any relevant information you have about the game's setting.  In the absence of other information we will just keep lynching witches.

also, a very important thing Tiruin said on day 1 that everyone has forgotten:

But for posterity's sake, I'm definitely sure that there are 2 other third-party alignments.

I really wish Tiruin wasn't so damn vague when it comes to claims.  Do we have any leads as to what the other third-party does?  Maybe they're the one who wants Life Shaman alive/Death Shaman dead.

[Toaster]

Lenglon:

Toaster: ok, here's the problem regarding the NQT thing. you called it scummy well after your vote had changed from pressure to lynch.

What?  This is simply false.  Let's make a list of the times I pointed it out before your linked post:

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=125287.msg4470347#msg4470347
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=125287.msg4473933#msg4473933
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=125287.msg4475359#msg4475359
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=125287.msg4480619#msg4480619

Four times I call out that incident before then.  So basically, what you're saying isn't based in reality.

The read you got was "this stuck in his mind". and keep in mind that what he asked you, the trigger for it, was pointing out that you were acting hypocritically. He had perfectly reasonable grounds to do so, and yet you included this action in your case on him as scum, and listed it as a major, and in fact the main reason you wanted him lynched.

why would you do that?

Are you saying I was being hypocritical because he thinks I'm from out of town?  [A point I disagree with.  I don't call an outlying farm out of town.]  Again, it's all context.  His reaction was floundering with a light panic sauce.  If that's not a scummy reaction to a question like that, please, tell me what is.

Toaster: now then, for the lie bit. that part is confusing, because it's from Tiruin talking about Toaster talking about Tiruin talking about Toaster talking about NQT.
however, it really was a baldfaced lie, and pretty incredibly scummy.

I'm going to have to de-nest quotes to make this clear for you, so please keep in mind that these quotes i'm about to post used to quote each other. there is ZERO chance of them referencing anything but each other. I'll keep the links as intact as I can, so you should be able to reference them to find the quote pyramid in full if you want to backcheck my work.

-snip quotes-

Okay.  I don't care- AT ALL- what Tiruin says about what NQT says.  I don't give two left shits about her defense of him.  I only care about NQT's own defense.  Also, please, clarify this:

The timestamp on your quote of NQT, the quote that you use to call Tiruin a liar, is this:

The timestamp on Tiruin's post, the one that you're replying too, is this:

The issue should be clear now. You're calling her a liar by quoting a post from AFTER her own. and using that post as an explanation for behavior from BEFORE HER POST WAS POSTED.

Are you trying to tell me that 12:48 AM is *after* 11:42 PM on the same day?  NQT is reply 386 and Tiruin's was 402.  How was NQT's post AFTER Tiruin's post?


NQT:

NQT:  When I was inquisitor, my wincon was a bit different from the standard town wincon.  Is your wincon exactly the same as the town wincon?

Very good question, you'd like to know that wouldn't you Toaster? I've been looking back over the game and who was it that was most keen on getting Tiruin lynched just because she was a third-party? Someone that Dariush implicitly didn't rule out as being a witch in his communications? Someone who tunnelled the flavour cop incessantly day one until they were pressured off the case? You're a witch, Toaster.

*facepalm*

NQT, man, really?  I think you're about the worst person to lynch now.  I completely buy your claim.  I have zero interest in building a case on you at all.  That doesn't mean I still don't want to know if your wincon is a bit different.  Even if it is, I seriously, seriously, doubt it'd be any reason to lynch you.  Don't jump to conclusions, and just answer the question.



Extend.

[Lenglon]

Lenglon:

Toaster: ok, here's the problem regarding the NQT thing. you called it scummy well after your vote had changed from pressure to lynch.

What?  This is simply false.  Let's make a list of the times I pointed it out before your linked post:

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=125287.msg4470347#msg4470347
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=125287.msg4473933#msg4473933
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=125287.msg4475359#msg4475359
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=125287.msg4480619#msg4480619

Four times I call out that incident before then.  So basically, what you're saying isn't based in reality.

The problem isn't from when you first called it out. it's from the fact that you continued to use it as your main point in a lynch case. That makes as much sense as using a null-tell answer to an RVS question as the main point in a lynch case... and in fact, it WAS using a null-tell answer to an RVS question as the main point in a lynch case.

The read you got was "this stuck in his mind". and keep in mind that what he asked you, the trigger for it, was pointing out that you were acting hypocritically. He had perfectly reasonable grounds to do so, and yet you included this action in your case on him as scum, and listed it as a major, and in fact the main reason you wanted him lynched.

why would you do that?

Are you saying I was being hypocritical because he thinks I'm from out of town?  [A point I disagree with.  I don't call an outlying farm out of town.]  Again, it's all context.  His reaction was floundering with a light panic sauce.  If that's not a scummy reaction to a question like that, please, tell me what is.

I'm saying he had just cause to accuse you of hypocricy. not that you actually were being hypocritical, but that he had a very good reason to accuse you of it. stop squirming.

Toaster: now then, for the lie bit. that part is confusing, because it's from Tiruin talking about Toaster talking about Tiruin talking about Toaster talking about NQT.
however, it really was a baldfaced lie, and pretty incredibly scummy.

I'm going to have to de-nest quotes to make this clear for you, so please keep in mind that these quotes i'm about to post used to quote each other. there is ZERO chance of them referencing anything but each other. I'll keep the links as intact as I can, so you should be able to reference them to find the quote pyramid in full if you want to backcheck my work.

-snip quotes-

Okay.  I don't care- AT ALL- what Tiruin says about what NQT says.  I don't give two left shits about her defense of him.  I only care about NQT's own defense.  Also, please, clarify this:

You were making a case on Tiruin at the time. Tiruin wasn't saying stuff about what NQT said, she was saying stuff about what YOU said about what NQT said.

The timestamp on your quote of NQT, the quote that you use to call Tiruin a liar, is this:

The timestamp on Tiruin's post, the one that you're replying too, is this:

The issue should be clear now. You're calling her a liar by quoting a post from AFTER her own. and using that post as an explanation for behavior from BEFORE HER POST WAS POSTED.

Are you trying to tell me that 12:48 AM is *after* 11:42 PM on the same day?  NQT is reply 386 and Tiruin's was 402.  How was NQT's post AFTER Tiruin's post?

Leng: I must be missing regarding the last bit of your post, unless you've got a misquote happening. It looks like NQT did clarify first, right? I see his linked post on P26 and Tir's on P27.

...
I hate 12-hour time.
yes, I was saying that 12:48 is later than 11:42
sorry, lie accusation retracted.

[Jim Groovester]

Votecount:

IronyOwl	- 0 -
Hapah	- 1 -	Toaster
Leafsnail	- 0 -
Lenglon	- 0 -
notquitethere	- 0 -
Solifuge	- 0 -
birdy51	- 0 -
Toaster	- 4 -	Lenglon, ToonyMan, Leafsnail, notquitethere
Toonyman	- 0 -
Shakerag	- 0 -
-
Not Voting	- 4 -	birdy51, Hapah, Solifuge, IronyOwl
No Lynch	- 1 -	Shakerag
-
Extend	- 0 -
Shorten	- 0 -

The Day has been extended to Monday, the 9th of September, 8PM GMT.

Four votes required to extend. Six votes required to shorten. Two extensions remain for the day.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Much as it pains me, I, as co-mod, cannot answer your query.

Unacceptable!  Send him ... TO DETROIT!

No not Detroit please anything but that.

[Toaster]

Lenglon:  Okay, I see the problem.  I say NQT had a scummy reaction to the test.  You say his reaction was null.  At some point, we just have to agree to disagree, because if you aren't convinced by now, I don't think you'll ever be.

[Leafsnail]

I don't see much point in dragging the day out further if people don't have any new points to make.  Why are a bunch of you not voting at all?

[Lenglon]

Unvote
Solifuge: "Comon kitty, please come out and play!"
Toaster: what is your current project/activity beyond self-defense?
Leafsnail: stop applauding death so blatantly please.
Hapah and Leafsnail: I haven't noticed anything else regarding third-parties since that Tir quote, I'm still digging.
NQT: What on earth are you voting Toaster for?
Irony: same as solifuge, though too a lesser degree, I don't see enough from you. please, come out and play.
LurkerTracker is sending up some warning flags to me

[lordnincompoop]

Solifuge has been prodded a second time.
IronyOwl has been prodded a second time.
ToonyMan has been prodded.

[Leafsnail]

Why are you unvoting Toaster?  You're the Witch Crone, right?

[birdy51]

Leafsnail:

I don't see much point in dragging the day out further if people don't have any new points to make.  Why are a bunch of you not voting at all?

Uncertainty is what stays my hand for now. I'm less worried about the killing the Death Shaman though, as opposed to accidentally killing the other Third party that Tiruin briefly alluded to.

We are definitely lacking some kind of information. We just don't know what that information is.

Hapah:

b]birdy:[/b] Any idea how you and your long-lost brother happened to end up in this particular town at the same time? Did you track him here?

I believe the monastery where I left him is closer than you might imagine. I probably could have visited him quite easily one day, except I didn't have the heart to. The death of my parents hit me hard, and I was trying to get on with my life. I was hesitant to visit him. As years passed, I grew to regret my folly. But by the time I was willing to do something about it, my brother left the monastery and I lost track of him. The last I heard was that he had found work apprenticing as a Cooper.

The fact that I have been reunited with him is remarkable, but I don't think it actually changes anything. At least, that's what the case is on my end.

Shakerag:

A quick question for you my good man.

Do your children still live with you?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Why are you unvoting Toaster?  You're the Witch Crone, right?

Obviously, Lenglon is simply fishing for a new cat. She is the Lonely Cat Lady.

[Shakerag]

birdy51

Shakerag:

A quick question for you my good man.

Do your children still live with you?

No.  I don't think so.  Let me check.  Well, I've apprenticed them both as carpenters, so maybe?  I guess that depends on whether apprentices live at home or with their teacher.


Guys: Seriously.  Why are we not all a little more concerned about the death shaman thing?  Can everyone who is voting Toaster guarantee that he isn't the death shaman? 


And, seeing as how we're all dragging ass, I'm going to call for massclaim time.  I'm vanilla town, so I've done fuckall for night actions.