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[zombie urist]

I just moved in to my college place and I left my mouse at home so I'm using a tablet which makes mafia more difficult.

Lenglon/LS - I don't really follow either of your arguments or cases.

@Toony - My cases weren't dumb. I already went over this, but I stopped thinking NQT was scummy after I realized what he was trying to do and Ottofar was scummier than NQT/LS and Tiruin was claimed 3rd party and I had strong town reads on NQT/LS who were then tied.

You still haven't created a case against LS. Or anyone else really.

Also you kinda dodged NQT's questions. Tiruin warded someone which protected them from dying. If what you say about the DS wanting to die why did she protect you?

@Dariush - Finding receipts for old clothes in my house would actually be wrong. 

[Lenglon]

Lenglon/LS - I don't really follow either of your arguments or cases.

Leafsnail is accusing me of being some ccrazy kind of flavor-cult-member (i'm not). He says that he thinks I was recruited last night, and that people claiming their flavor publicly is necessary for cult recruitment.

I think his accusation is crazy, and that he's just trying to throw up a smokescreen. Yesterday he said he would claim today, he has not. At first he had a valid excuse (checking NQT's claim), but NQT's claim has been checked now, and he's still refusing.

By refusing to claim anything, he is making it impossible for him to get caught out as lying scum regarding his flavor. Or in short, he is negating all benefit from him having been inspected last night, and he's doing it very much on purpose.

He is scum.

[lordnincompoop]

Tiruin has been resurrected!

Okami no Rei has been prodded for the third time; Anti-Lurk System activated.
IronyOwl has been prodded.
Griffinpup has been prodded.

[Tiruin]

NQT:

Everyone
The more information we have the better. If Tiruin had been more forthcoming and clearer sooner she might have avoided being lynched. Still, her death gives us useful intelligence: amongst us there is a death shaman. If anyone has anything they want to share, go ahead.

Clarify: If people actually read.

My death gave no useful intelligence, NQT. It's what I chose to give preceeding that. This is one part which really irks me--how you word this whole statement.

Cases:[...]
Tiruin said she was out to protect her opposite and she warded Toonyman. This would strongly imply that Toony is the Death Shaman.

And I preferred you to read and afterwards, conclude. See, that's the problem nowadays. People love doing it backwards.

I have no idea who my target is.

Query: What happened between you and Leafsnail? It's a hole in the fabric when seen by an onlooker.

Toonyman

I'm a spirit bound with only one goal. To search for my polar opposite. To bind him by keeping him alive. And to survive--my everything is directed at only benevolent intent, and as a side, I was geared to use it on any mislynch, ever.

Tiruin casts her ward at ToonyMan.

ToonyMan has been Warded!l

Are you Tiruin's opposite? Are you magical? Are you a death shaman? Why would Tiruin think you were?

And now I really don't like how you misinterpret me. Do you think I know who my target is? What's the purpose of the bolded statement?

Why do you assume my guess and throw it for someone else to answer? Why did you think that?
ToonyMan:

Unfortunately, no.  I was able to learn the Death Shaman wishes to die during the game, because of this, I have deemed you are very likely not the Death Shaman and more likely town if anything else.

Opposites happen. The longer the DS is kept from death, the weaker he becomes.

How did you deem NQT as such?

Recent posts:...Why is the notion of a cult being brought up here?

Leafsnail:

Leafsnail: Keep your word and claim please. NQT has proven himself, now it is time for you to prove yourself.

What word would that be?  I'll answer any questions NQT has, but if he doesn't think me claiming would be helpful then why would it be?

I've had an idea.  Let's imagine that there's a hidden coven of witches.  They aren't part of society.  They want to move in and take it over, but it would be difficult to do it as outsiders.  So they decide that they need to become insiders by replacing the townspeople.

To properly replace someone, you need to know enough information about them to act as a convincing replacement.  Otherwise someone may notice the difference in name and profession.

I put it to you that such a cult exists in this game.  It was made clear in the OP that witches can replace people, and it explains the lack of death in the night.  And your strange desire to extract as many details about my role as possible now that I've been inspected.

Unvote.  Lenglon, what do you think?

Where did this idea come from? What basis makes it reasonable here?

[Dariush]

vomit

Okay, let us assume you're telling the truth. (there is still the possibility that you're simply LS's scummate, or simply a witch flavorcop, but I'll let those possibilities slide for now) Now riddle me this: how the fuck do botched and unfinished clothes (none of which are mentioned in my flavour, by the way) show that the person has been replaced by a witch, as opposed to being in the process of finishing or repairing them? And if we have been here for a day, why would anything that happened several days before that matter?

Hey Tiruin, how about you full-claim, in addition to stating everything you know about the DS?

Hey LS, did anybody tell you that your asspull is stupid? (well, apart from Tiruin, who shamelessly PPE'd me) If we temporarily stupidify ourselves (for example, by reading the compilation of everything NQT has ever said, though that may have permanent effects...) and then somehow assume that lack of kill means there is a cult with unprecedented mechanics, then either witches clone themselves, procreate or leave behind them the corpses of their previous victims. Which of those theories do you support?

Mods: verify votes on me, please.

[Tiruin]

Hey Tiruin, how about you full-claim, in addition to stating everything you know about the DS?

...It's all back there. Nothing changed. If you read. How about you ask nicer for once?

Hey LS, did anybody tell you that your asspull is stupid? (well, apart from Tiruin, who shamelessly PPE'd me) If we temporarily stupidify ourselves (for example, by reading the compilation of everything NQT has ever said, though that may have permanent effects...) and then somehow assume that lack of kill means there is a cult with unprecedented mechanics, then either witches clone themselves, procreate or leave behind them the corpses of their previous victims. Which of those theories do you support?

Because 90% of this is all rhetorical insults, and the last 10% is on vague and nebulous thinking.
What pull? How is it definitively stupid?
Apart from me? What did I do?

[Dariush]

Hey Tiruin, how about you full-claim, in addition to stating everything you know about the DS?

...It's all back there. Nothing changed. If you read. How about you ask nicer for once?

I don't see you mentioning one small thing... uh, let me remember... it's on the tip of my tongue... oh yeah, your resurrection. It's so insignificant that I completely forgot about it. Did you auto-resurrect or did someone else do this? What abilities do you have? Is DS a jester, a martyr, a suicider, a combination of those or something else? What will happen if you successfully bind him and stay alive?

Hey LS, did anybody tell you that your asspull is stupid? (well, apart from Tiruin, who shamelessly PPE'd me) If we temporarily stupidify ourselves (for example, by reading the compilation of everything NQT has ever said, though that may have permanent effects...) and then somehow assume that lack of kill means there is a cult with unprecedented mechanics, then either witches clone themselves, procreate or leave behind them the corpses of their previous victims. Which of those theories do you support?

Because 90% of this is all rhetorical insults, and the last 10% is on vague and nebulous thinking.
What pull? How is it definitively stupid?
Apart from me? What did I do?

...what? You do realize this paragraph was addressed to LS (and whose asspull about cults I'm talking about) and not to you, right?

[lordnincompoop]

Votecount:

Dariush	- 2 -	notquitethere, zombie urist,
IronyOwl	- 0 -
Griffinpup	- 1 -	Toaster,
Leafsnail	- 2 -	Lenglon, Tiruin
Lenglon	- 1 -	Leafsnail,
notquitethere	- 0 -
Okami no Rei	- 0 -
Ottofar	- 0 -
Tiruin	- 1 -	Dariush,
Toaster	- 0 -
Toonyman	- 0 -
Vector	- 0 -
zombie urist	- 1 -	ToonyMan,
-
Not Voting	- 13 -	IronyOwl, Ottofar, griffinpup, Vector, Okami no Rei,
No Lynch	- 0 -
-
Extend	- 0 -
Shorten	- 0 -

[Tiruin]

Hey Tiruin, how about you full-claim, in addition to stating everything you know about the DS?

...It's all back there. Nothing changed. If you read. How about you ask nicer for once?

I don't see you mentioning one small thing... uh, let me remember... it's on the tip of my tongue... oh yeah, your resurrection. It's so insignificant that I completely forgot about it. Did you auto-resurrect or did someone else do this? What abilities do you have? Is DS a jester, a martyr, a suicider, a combination of those or something else? What will happen if you successfully bind him and stay alive?

Hey LS, did anybody tell you that your asspull is stupid? (well, apart from Tiruin, who shamelessly PPE'd me) If we temporarily stupidify ourselves (for example, by reading the compilation of everything NQT has ever said, though that may have permanent effects...) and then somehow assume that lack of kill means there is a cult with unprecedented mechanics, then either witches clone themselves, procreate or leave behind them the corpses of their previous victims. Which of those theories do you support?

Because 90% of this is all rhetorical insults, and the last 10% is on vague and nebulous thinking.
What pull? How is it definitively stupid?
Apart from me? What did I do?

...what? You do realize this paragraph was addressed to LS (and whose asspull about cults I'm talking about) and not to you, right?

@first:...You really didn't read through D1, did you?

I have no darn idea on who the DS is, or his powers. I'm inferring that he wants to die, yea. Because he wins if I lose, and I lose if he wins. However my goal is to find him, and keep him alive. Oh, and survive, but people already are biased against that point.

What I've been musing over the night is on whether I really was pro-town or not. I mean, I wield the powers on life itself, but not ever wanting to take it. I mean, seeing my wincon is to protect someone from death, albeit willing to stop him gives contradiction.

Until I saw one crucial part. I'm his opposing force. Nothing else is greater than that--which is my top priority goal. The further away from death he is, the better. For everyone. He controls death, while I control life. Please don't tell me you don't get what I'm trying to tell you here in a vague way.

...Now why I said SK earlier? It was inferring. His goal is also to stop me from winning.

And that is by killing me.

Anyway, it wasn't stated how long I would wish to keep him alive, but that I should. What would happen is that I would remove his presence here, and banish him from this world...as far as I interpret it.



@second: I bolded the part where I thought it also included me in.


Mod: I look at the weather. What do I see?


Toaster: Give your read on me, along with telling me why you used every gesture on me, at day 1, as a way of undermining me and putting me in a bad light, please. It would be fairly hypocritical for you to state all your aggression on me as a third-party, so I ask you, what did you learn from last night?

[notquitethere]

LNCP— Vector, IronyOwl, Okami, Griffinpup all posted over 112 hours ago, can relevant action be taken in accordance to rule 11?


Leafsnail, Lenglon
Stop faffing about. Dariush is confirmed scum. If you're not witches then do your job and lynch him. By all means, speculate about flavour-cults and throw around suspicious fingers, but let's not cause a tie or potential mislynch when there is a dissembling witch openly in our midst.

Just Leafsnail — That's an interesting theory about the cult, but there are other things which explain the events. Everyone knew a name and profession, including Dariush who has confirmed himself a lying witch. But while we're at it, prove you're not a doppelganger cultist with a highly developed sense of irony: inside your wagon, what do you keep your vegetables in? One of the following is your name, which:

A: Martin Brouillart
B: Martin Bouillon
C: Martin Bronnaire
D: Martin Bourvil
E: Martin Brodeur
F: Martin Boyer
G: Martin Bronaparte

(In case I die or something, Leafsnail is one of the above, a farmer of modest means.)

Tiruin

My death gave no useful intelligence, NQT. It's what I chose to give preceeding that.

I think your death gave plenty of useful information. It proved you to be a life shaman. Did you resurrect yourself or did someone else do it? I presume the former.

I have no idea who my target is.

Okay, well that's good to know. Did you have any reason for thinking it was Toony or was that just a wild guess?

Query: What happened between you and Leafsnail? It's a hole in the fabric when seen by an onlooker.

That's an interesting metaphor. What happened is this: I'm the flavour cop, he refused to claim his name and profession, this is suspicious. I investigate him, and learn his name and profession, he now believes me, but he still hasn't claimed anything yet. This is suspicious. Especially since he's attacking Lenglon on some bizarre cult hypothetical instead of, you know, lynching confirmed scum.

And now I really don't like how you misinterpret me. Do you think I know who my target is? What's the purpose of the bolded statement?

Why do you assume my guess and throw it for someone else to answer? Why did you think that?

You said you wanted to protect the Death Shaman and you protected Toony (to ward = to protect), thus you thought Toony was the Death Shaman. Is my reasoning incorrect here? I was asking Toony why you might think that, which in the circumstances is, I feel, a reasonable question.

Why did you lie about being magical? You have shaman in your name— there could have been no doubt!

Dariush

Now riddle me this: how the fuck do botched and unfinished clothes (none of which are mentioned in my flavour, by the way) show that the person has been replaced by a witch, as opposed to being in the process of finishing or repairing them? And if we have been here for a day, why would anything that happened several days before that matter?

Oh ho ho, the backpedalling begins! Your general strategy is to try and discredit and poor scorn on everything I say, painting me as an unreliable player. This isn't going to wash.

First thing, you can't read: botched clothes were a sign of apprentices, not you going away. I never said that you'd been replaced by a witch— that was Leafsnail's supposition, I just said that there was evidence (from unfinished clothes that were explicitly stated to have been untouched for several days) that you'd not been working for a few days before the witch hunt began. Instead of deflecting by asking why it would matter what you were up to before the witchhunt, why don't you just answer my question? What were you up to? Any of these details (like the apprentices thing) could have been confirmed for you by a PM to LNCP if you were a town player, but no, you automatically jumped to accusing me of being some kind of scum implementing an insane fakeclaim ploy.

The jig is up buster, do you want to incriminate yourself anymore? Try explaining why you ignored me for the whole second half of Day 1? Your so-called case is still indefensible. And tell us while, you're at it, why you're voting the confirmed life shaman?

[Tiruin]

I think your death gave plenty of useful information. It proved you to be a life shaman. Did you resurrect yourself or did someone else do it? I presume the former.

I took it upon myself to fix all this mayhem. And by that I mean I was pissed off at how the information is being interpreted and decided to revive myself, yes. This is my face :I Look at my laconic nature.

Chiding aside, yes. Your presumptions are correct.

Okay, well that's good to know. Did you have any reason for thinking it was Toony or was that just a wild guess?

Let me quote this as it seems you too only skim the superficial Day-Lynch-Note and not delve deeper into reading my posts.
This is the Iron Owl's post. It contains all the context and more, including proceeding answers.

You said you wanted to protect the Death Shaman and you protected Toony (to ward = to protect), thus you thought Toony was the Death Shaman. Is my reasoning incorrect here? I was asking Toony why you might think that, which in the circumstances is, I feel, a reasonable question.

It is wholly incorrect. I thought Toony was a prominent figure of importance.

In said circumstances, you're asking others how you think they think the warden feels like. See the reason there? It only gains you their opinion.

Hey, you didn't ask me that before though. Why didn't you?

Tiruin

Why did you lie about being magical? You have shaman in your name— there could have been no doubt!

See, this is what I'm talking about. Concluding before thinking.

I am a shaman, yet am also human. Is a human magical? You may have seen what gruesome act happened yesterday, am I right?

 I am not being magical, but possess it innately. Like a dream-gift thing. I possess 'magical' abilities which pertain to the concept of not affecting things in the mundane of physical nature. However, according to the archaic definition of magic, it isn't magic, but spiritualism. Utilizing the natural force of nature. But take it as you will.

Ugh. >_>

I really feel like you don't care enough to get information right and depend more on your role than not, in this game. You = scummy.

Anyway, if you want more information, I only have one eye now. No, I've no idea how that happened other than it occurred when I made my act, and my father would be very distressed at what just happened but I can describe how I look like to you-...

...

Lenglon: Why was physical description so important again that you had to ask for it?

Just Leafsnail — That's an interesting theory about the cult, but there are other things which explain the events. Everyone knew a name and profession, including Dariush who has confirmed himself a lying witch. But while we're at it, prove you're not a doppelganger cultist with a highly developed sense of irony: inside your wagon, what do you keep your vegetables in? One of the following is your name, which:

A: Martin Brouillart
B: Martin Bouillon
C: Martin Bronnaire
D: Martin Bourvil
E: Martin Brodeur
F: Martin Boyer
G: Martin Bronaparte

(In case I die or something, Leafsnail is one of the above, a farmer of modest means.)

...One of the following? What in the world is that kind of reasoning?


Other than those questions, I'd like to ask you one thing pertaining to the first general note you announced to everyone:

NQT:

Everyone
The more information we have the better. If Tiruin had been more forthcoming and clearer sooner she might have avoided being lynched. Still, her death gives us useful intelligence: amongst us there is a death shaman. If anyone has anything they want to share, go ahead.

Clarify: If people actually read.

My death gave no useful intelligence, NQT. It's what I chose to give preceeding that. This is one part which really irks me--how you word this whole statement.

It seems like you considered role names useful. Why? If I had announced my general profession as what the people see me as, how would that help at all?

[notquitethere]

Tiruin

This is my face :I Look at my laconic nature.

Hah! You can be quite funny sometimes Tiruin. You're many things but never laconic!

Let me quote this as it seems you too only skim the superficial Day-Lynch-Note and not delve deeper into reading my posts.
This is the Iron Owl's post. It contains all the context and more, including proceeding answers.

It is wholly incorrect. I thought Toony was a prominent figure of importance.

In said circumstances, you're asking others how you think they think the warden feels like. See the reason there? It only gains you their opinion.

Oh no, I read that but I figured you were lying to IronyOwl about your true reasons. Your reasons show that you thought Toony had town's interests in heart etc. but then you later said you wanted to protect the Death Shaman. I didn't think you'd think the Death Shaman had town's interests in heart so what's the truth here? I'm not really getting your reasoning.

Hey, you didn't ask me that before though. Why didn't you?

What, about why you warded Toony? I only today connected your earlier action to what you later said about wanting to protect the Death Shaman. Precisely, what is the effect of the warding? Are you going to do it again?

I am a shaman, yet am also human. Is a human magical? You may have seen what gruesome act happened yesterday, am I right?

You're obfuscating here: a human can be magical. That's what a shaman or a witch is: a magical human.

I am not being magical, but possess it innately. Like a dream-gift thing. I possess 'magical' abilities which pertain to the concept of not affecting things in the mundane of physical nature. However, according to the archaic definition of magic, it isn't magic, but spiritualism. Utilizing the natural force of nature. But take it as you will.

You're bringing in magical-metaphysics that doesn't necessarily have a bearing on the metaphysics of this game.

I really feel like you don't care enough to get information right and depend more on your role than not, in this game. You = scummy.

I care very much about whether I get things right. You're weirdly hostile when I'm not even attacking you. What do you mean I depend more on my role? Given that my role is confirmed as town now, how can I be scummy? You're not making much sense.

Anyway, if you want more information, I only have one eye now. No, I've no idea how that happened other than it occurred when I made my act, and my father would be very distressed at what just happened but I can describe how I look like to you-...

Well, please do.

Lenglon: Why was physical description so important again that you had to ask for it?

It's really off-putting when you address someone else in the middle of asking me questions. It'd be nice if you ordered your thoughts into a clearer structure.

One of the following is your name, which:[names]

...One of the following? What in the world is that kind of reasoning?

I wanted to show to a town-Leafsnail that I knew his name, while also trapping a possible scum-Leafsnail that didn't know his own name.

It seems like you considered role names useful. Why? If I had announced my general profession as what the people see me as, how would that help at all?

I'm not sure what's so unclear here. When you died, we learned in the mod's post that you were a life shaman. That you'd been telling the truth. That you weren't completely lying. That's learning something. Also, 'life shaman' isn't a very hostile sounding role. It gave us reasons to trust you, reasons which you seem strangely intent on undermining.

Question: will you die/leave town if the Death Shaman is lynched?

[lordnincompoop]

LNCP— Vector, IronyOwl, Okami, Griffinpup all posted over 112 hours ago, can relevant action be taken in accordance to rule 11?

I am already taking relevant action.

Mod: I look at the weather. What do I see?

The rain from yesterday has let up, but it's still fairly cloudy and grey.

[Toaster]

Oh, it's going to be one of those games.

[Tiruin]

Oh no, I read that but I figured you were lying to IronyOwl about your true reasons. Your reasons show that you thought Toony had town's interests in heart etc. but then you later said you wanted to protect the Death Shaman. I didn't think you'd think the Death Shaman had town's interests in heart so what's the truth here? I'm not really getting your reasoning.

This is where me saying it's unconventional and pretty much confusing kicks in, back from D1. Because at first glance, it's totally against what we all know as the conventional rules of Mafia. Why would someone want to die?

Like I'd know that. But I do know, his will aims to eradicate all life, that he must be stopped.

Yet then here comes the confusion. Why would I want to let him live, if in my own purpose is to stop him? I asked myself that until I rethought about it.

His power lies in death, either of himself and of others. My objective is to keep him alive, because my very presence keeps him from committing to his own. In killing everyone.

You're obfuscating here: a human can be magical. That's what a shaman or a witch is: a magical human.

...Err, ok? It's different from where I see it though. I mean, I didn't originally possess this..like a prophecy sort of thing.

You're bringing in magical-metaphysics that doesn't necessarily have a bearing on the metaphysics of this game.

It's the metaphysics which govern how I see it as opposed to how you see it, so in context it's reasonable to bring. Because it explains my viewpoint.

Precisely, what is the effect of the warding? Are you going to do it again?

When I say like a Guardian Angel, I don't lie. Nothing can kill anyone with a ward. I can say it out loud, or discreetly send it via prayer to the governing god above. Yea, this is all metaphorical to the Mod and the PM.

And <profanity> yeah I am. Fear me scumbags. Kill me.[/goad]

I care very much about whether I get things right. You're weirdly hostile when I'm not even attacking you. What do you mean I depend more on my role? Given that my role is confirmed as town now, how can I be scummy? You're not making much sense.

I'm hostile in the way that I suspect you. Depend more on your role being that...well, look at the last D1 push-effort. Claim to save thy skin.

...And I'm unsure on that matter of confirmed town. You're a flavor role cop, right? How does that fall into the context of town, unless I'm missing something?

Scummy = suspicious. It's usually the term townies use. I've already made it plaintively obvious that I'm a third-party to appease those who love labeling, so hence my point.

That's learning something. Also, 'life shaman' isn't a very hostile sounding role. It gave us reasons to trust you, reasons which you seem strangely intent on undermining.

Err, undermining? The reason why I'm against that sort was primarily because...well, it deviates from the essence of the game. You claim something special given to you, and suspicion drops...Meh. That's just me and technicalities.

Question: will you die/leave town if the Death Shaman is lynched?

Nope on the first. Preferably yes on the second. I have no idea what my wincon would continue on as, but that I should keep him alive for as long as possible. Possibly pertaining to the ol' town vs scum fight. Our duel only finishes when either side wins, but that's just my speculation. I'm watching the weather for a reason.

...Why in the world would you want to lynch the DS?!

However I'll be panicking if you lynch the Death Shaman, as his power lies in death. General death, hence my apathy towards me losing. I've drawn a heck lot of conclusions from that knowledge like:
> Him gaining power from every lynch.
> His shifting powers and/or abilities
> ...Some other things related to death which go into the 'totally creative' factor.
> That his will is in death, and I doubt it's in stopping me--if anyone dies, only their identity is uncovered and nothing else. I have powers which can reverse that, however you'd know who that person is. That's why I said my inference was as an SK earlier.
As you can see, my drawing board is a where I got my thoughts from. Mostly seen D1.

Oh, it's going to be one of those games.

Here you go again...

"Those" games?

Never newbie friendly, are you. We haven't experienced the tribulations you have in those past games, so it would be nice to enlighten us of your meta.