Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Vector]

No, I mean by it being a generality. Anyone could use the reason of 'this is why we lynch scum'.

Fine.  Tiruin, I have no idea what you're saying here, it includes no questions, and I've made up my mind on you so I'm not particularly inspired to try and figure out what you're saying.


As for my scumhunting: I'm happy with my pick and I feel no particular need to do much more.  You should all vote Tiruin because she doesn't have the town's best interests at heart and is making emotional appeals like none other in her attempt to backpedal and explain "no, I'm REALLY pro-town!"

Tiruin, I don't care how many times you call me a slimy jerk.  My vote is parked here and it's not leaving until you're dead.

[Toaster]

Tiruin:

...You really are obstinate in failing to provide rational ideas here, aren't you.

Just because you don't like my case does not make it rational.

I really like the atmosphere in this game in how it doesn't have any role-ist bias (stereotypes are the worst thing you can defend against, and it really inspires a feeling of hatred towards the idea, because that's what I'm feeling. Weak case. Total BS. Categorization. Generalization.

I'm going off experience, here.  If you don't like it, sorry.

All because of your failures in the past)

This is somewhere between "What the hell are you talking about" and "making shit up."

-And feel like it's not leaking out of the ideas of concise logic and the spirit of Mafia.[/frickin'sarcasm - this is how pissed I am at certain people, but moreso when they commit utter scumtells and come off to most as..non-scum.]

Lenglon, ZU, NQT, ToonyMan, IronyOwl : You five out of the total audience have stated insight and/or interest towards this debate here, what is your read and view on this?

Oh, so it's okay when you for the opinion of others but not when I do it?

Vector:  Tiruin appears to be claiming third party.  What is your reaction to this?

Running up to Vector and asking for backup, I presume? Why Vector of all people?

Especially in Witches' Coven.

Actually, I'll throw one at you for now, since it sticks out so hard:

> He's using bad logic and metaknowledge to back up his vote.
> He's using spurious claims (that lie thing I pointed out? Yeah.) to back up his case on me.
> He's not being definite about his case on me, but rather use the fallacy of appealing to ignorance to prod at me.
> Wasting a vote on a third-party mainly because of said metaknowledge without explaining the context WHY he's doing so or why he's believing I claimed in the first place, but coming off from that tangent.

1.  Without metaknowledge, your claim becomes this:  "Hey guys I'm not town but you can totally trust me, okay?"  Answer: no, I don't.
2.  What lie?
3+4:  These are bullshit.  I have been loud and clear about why I am voting you.  I am voting you because you are claimed third party, and third party is very likely bad.  There's other details I've posted that I'm all done repeating myself over.

Oho. 'Especially in Witches' Coven'. Emphasis much? For what reason.

1. Yeah, sure. Prove it from your frickin' viewpoint enough to not go off as handwaving everything else I say. Especially in:
2. Read for once. You're really coming off as desperate to lynch a third-party based PURELY on previous events. IN OTHER GAMES. What I see there is more of a subtle push in the face of wasting a lynch than not.
3-4. Loud and clear in the notion of tooting your confabulous horn. Meaning: Spouting nothing but loud words and aggression without the essence of one who is scumhunting. The bolded portion plays truly to possibility and outguessing a moderator instead of doing anything rational, or even reasonable. The orange portion is a subtle diversion from instead of quoting the EXACT phrase or statement, and backs up my view of you quoting entire passages without even stating why or how they exactly matter. Which leads back to my initial case on you regarding NQT.

Why don't you respond to that first, Witch.

1.  There's honestly nothing else more I can say that isn't copy pasting at this point.
2.  Not pictured:  You pointing out this supposed lie of mine.
3-4.  Your response to this is essentially meaningless, since within that "loud words and aggression" is the case I've been saying over and over.

You are right on one point though- this is a waste of time.  I should just vote you, let everyone else who isn't deliberately misreading my case do so, and move on to other people.  I don't believe you have the town's interest at heart, and at this point, pretty much nothing you do or say will convince me otherwise.


Zombie U:

NQT:
Heavy focus on flavor early game. I can kinda see what he's trying to do with this.
Panicky + desperate to stay alive.

Are you saying he is scummy or not?  It's kind of vague.

Is anyone else scummy to you besides those three?  Why?



Ottofar:

So, yeah, I'm pretty much a confirmed townie right now, so everyone should probably stop voting me. I don't exactly appreciate Leafsnail pushing me here, but eh.

I do not agree with your confirmness.  You are leaning (useless) town in my book, so you should probably start really hunting.  Do you not think that the nature of Leaf's trap means he is just as town as you say you are?


Leafsnail:

I haven't trusted you Leafsnail this entire game, but damn, you're pushing a lynch on Ottofar hard and that is Scumsnail if I ever saw one.

I think I was perfectly justified in saying that given the answer LNCP gave me (he said that yes, quoting a single word from your PM would be modkillable).  He has since changed that answer though so it's not the case.

I note your vote hasn't moved.  Given LNCP's updated ruling, what is your current case on Ottofar?


Lenglon:

If this were a standard game, except you wincon was "Eliminate the mafia and town wins" and there was a serial killer in the game, would you want to get rid of the serial killer?

not until the day before Mylo/Lylo, for the same reason as why you always lynch day 1, and why a vig always kills. random-kills are theoretically slightly pro-town. and the SK and vig both can automatically self-confirm as non-mafia, which doesn't happen with the lynch. the reason I'd want to kill the SK before Mylo/Lylo is because that's when their wincon will actively interfere with town activities, and they'll be motivated to cooperate with the scum (SK + scum @ mylo can force a tie vote, SK + scum @ lylo can force a mislynch).

Toaster:if you have some insight in how SK and Vig differ, or a better way to handle them, I'd like to hear it.

I'm interested in your reasoning on the underlined bit.  As far as the self-identify, that's not strictly true, since a mafioso could fake it.  Also, the mafia is typically highly motivated to eliminate a SK, since losing one townie hurts the town much less than losing one mafioso hurts the mafia.

As far as how they differ, it's tricky to tell, since a SK that is tracked/watched killing someone will usually claim vig.  I've done it myself.  The way to tell them apart is to watch their vote and kill patterns, and see if they match up.  (Example- if a supposed vig is voting PlayerA and the day ends with PlayerB lynched, and the supposed vig kills PlayerC in the night, this is highly suspicious.)  They also need to justify their targets, and do so well.

If the number of scum is known, and they're all eliminated and the game isn't over, that gives a 99.9% chance that the player in question is really a SK and should be lynched post-haste.

Unvote
-
Ottofar

This is one of those things you should explain.

same reason I had my vote on him before I shifted it to Vector for a moment to press her on her case. He isn't hunting. It's nothing new so I didn't think there was a need for me to comment on it.

Do you have anything besides "he isn't hunting?"  Who else do you suspect?


Okami:

So, ZU, NQT, and Otto are my current picks for witches.

Vector is iffy.  Maybe scum.  Maybe IRL difficulties giving off play.

Dariush is Dariush.  Seems scum, but when does he not?

Irony/Deathsword and griffinpup - No read.

Lenglon, Leafsnail, and Toaster - Town.

Toonyman's claim seems like a scum/third-party red herring.  Town.

Tiruin - [humor]Clearly third-party.[/humor]

You don't really give any reasoning for any of this, especially your lynch vote on NQT.  Also, I don't understand what you're saying about Toony.




And we have a three way tie between Tiruin, NQT, and Leafsnail.  Nice.

[Jim Groovester]

Votecount:

Dariush	- 0 -
IronyOwl	- 0 -
griffinpup	- 0 -
Leafsnail	- 3 -	IronyOwl, notquitethere, ToonyMan
Lenglon	- 0 -
notquitethere	- 3 -	Ottofar, Dariush, Okami No Rei
Okami No Rei	- 0 -
Ottofar	- 2 -	Lenglon, zombie urist
Tiruin	- 3 -	Toaster, Vector, Leafsnail
Toaster	- 1 -	Tiruin
ToonyMan	- 0 -
Vector	- 0 -
zombie urist	- 0 -
-
Not Voting	- 1 -	griffinpup
No Lynch	- 0 -
-
Extend	- 0 -
Shorten	- 0 -

The Day ends on Friday, the 16th of August, 8PM GMT, in approximately 17 hours.

7 votes required to Shorten. No Extends left for the Day.

[Tiruin]

2.  Not pictured:  You pointing out this supposed lie of mine.

..Toaster for confirmed scum.

Read this and weep.

@1. I ask you to prove it, you don't and fail to quote proof. Not a townie move. Anyone would easily go and do such to seal it in stone.

You aren't dedicated to do that.

3-4. That's you declaiming it because you feel it's true, isn't it.

Tiruin:

...You really are obstinate in failing to provide rational ideas here, aren't you.

Just because you don't like my case does not make it rational.

I really like the atmosphere in this game in how it doesn't have any role-ist bias (stereotypes are the worst thing you can defend against, and it really inspires a feeling of hatred towards the idea, because that's what I'm feeling. Weak case. Total BS. Categorization. Generalization.

I'm going off experience, here.  If you don't like it, sorry.

All because of your failures in the past)

This is somewhere between "What the hell are you talking about" and "making shit up."

-And feel like it's not leaking out of the ideas of concise logic and the spirit of Mafia.[/frickin'sarcasm - this is how pissed I am at certain people, but moreso when they commit utter scumtells and come off to most as..non-scum.]

Lenglon, ZU, NQT, ToonyMan, IronyOwl : You five out of the total audience have stated insight and/or interest towards this debate here, what is your read and view on this?

Oh, so it's okay when you for the opinion of others but not when I do it?

Vector:  Tiruin appears to be claiming third party.  What is your reaction to this?

Running up to Vector and asking for backup, I presume? Why Vector of all people?

Especially in Witches' Coven.

Actually, I'll throw one at you for now, since it sticks out so hard:

> He's using bad logic and metaknowledge to back up his vote.
> He's using spurious claims (that lie thing I pointed out? Yeah.) to back up his case on me.
> He's not being definite about his case on me, but rather use the fallacy of appealing to ignorance to prod at me.
> Wasting a vote on a third-party mainly because of said metaknowledge without explaining the context WHY he's doing so or why he's believing I claimed in the first place, but coming off from that tangent.

1.  Without metaknowledge, your claim becomes this:  "Hey guys I'm not town but you can totally trust me, okay?"  Answer: no, I don't.
2.  What lie?
3+4:  These are bullshit.  I have been loud and clear about why I am voting you.  I am voting you because you are claimed third party, and third party is very likely bad.  There's other details I've posted that I'm all done repeating myself over.

Oho. 'Especially in Witches' Coven'. Emphasis much? For what reason.

1. Yeah, sure. Prove it from your frickin' viewpoint enough to not go off as handwaving everything else I say. Especially in:
2. Read for once. You're really coming off as desperate to lynch a third-party based PURELY on previous events. IN OTHER GAMES. What I see there is more of a subtle push in the face of wasting a lynch than not.
3-4. Loud and clear in the notion of tooting your confabulous horn. Meaning: Spouting nothing but loud words and aggression without the essence of one who is scumhunting. The bolded portion plays truly to possibility and outguessing a moderator instead of doing anything rational, or even reasonable. The orange portion is a subtle diversion from instead of quoting the EXACT phrase or statement, and backs up my view of you quoting entire passages without even stating why or how they exactly matter. Which leads back to my initial case on you regarding NQT.

Why don't you respond to that first, Witch.

1.  There's honestly nothing else more I can say that isn't copy pasting at this point.
2.  Not pictured:  You pointing out this supposed lie of mine.
3-4.  Your response to this is essentially meaningless, since within that "loud words and aggression" is the case I've been saying over and over.

You are right on one point though- this is a waste of time.  I should just vote you, let everyone else who isn't deliberately misreading my case do so, and move on to other people.  I don't believe you have the town's interest at heart, and at this point, pretty much nothing you do or say will convince me otherwise.

And most of your post is a compilation of 'No u' without wishing to explain it more. Going off by experience? What kind of stinking logic is that, in this case--your best weapon here was to clearly state where I claimed to being a third-party, then picking it apart. You DIDN'T.

You dodged, evaded and redirected points back and forth to end at this sour note.

But sure, go ahead and handwave everything, this disgusts me.

Oh, so it's okay when you for the opinion of others but not when I do it?

...Where have I ever said it's wrong for you to ask others' opinion? I never said that. You keep on misrepresenting me so much it's worse than disgusting.

Vector

No, I mean by it being a generality. Anyone could use the reason of 'this is why we lynch scum'.

Fine.  Tiruin, I have no idea what you're saying here, it includes no questions, and I've made up my mind on you so I'm not particularly inspired to try and figure out what you're saying.


As for my scumhunting: I'm happy with my pick and I feel no particular need to do much more.  You should all vote Tiruin because she doesn't have the town's best interests at heart and is making emotional appeals like none other in her attempt to backpedal and explain "no, I'm REALLY pro-town!"

Tiruin, I don't care how many times you call me a slimy jerk.  My vote is parked here and it's not leaving until you're dead.

Did I call you a slimy jerk? Look, i know you're stressed but wtf Vector. You can make better posts than this. It comes off as more than playing to ignorance.

Oh, and your misinterpretation? It's the best misinterpretation ever. But I understand.

If people work under the veil of ignorance, there's no telling what consequences they play to; playing only to their beliefs and sticking to what they only want to hear. That's ok.

I forgive you for your obstinance and for taking my personality and calling me as such, and I can see you're taking it on a personal level. Don't worry, I won't hold this against you despite how hurt I am right now. No, it's ok, I get your point.

But you'll learn nothing from my death if that's your only valid point other than who I am.

[Tiruin]

Vector: Just answer me this, personally. Why are you assuming I'd call you that?

[zombie urist]

I don't think Tiruin is a witch because it would be very stupid for a witch to claim third party before any suspicion was on her. She's probably panicking because she loses if she dies. I believe she can help the town, like with the ward thing. She might be kinda like the devil in Supernatural mafias.

Zombie U:

NQT:
Heavy focus on flavor early game. I can kinda see what he's trying to do with this.
Panicky + desperate to stay alive.

Are you saying he is scummy or not?  It's kind of vague.
Is anyone else scummy to you besides those three?  Why?

I don't think he's scum. I think he honestly believes that using flavor can help find scum, since he has a history of using unconventional scumhunting methods.
ONR for reasons I posted before. Mostly for inconsistency with the desire to claim flavor.
Dariush has been borderline active-lurking and ignoring people is what he does as scum, but he has raised some interesting points on Toonyman.

Zombie Urist - You've posted several times, and I've yet to see anything approaching a response to this post.  Why are you stalling, scum?

Because responding to it isn't interesting or fun. But here it is.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Rolefishing is one possible explanation for NQT's action.  Assuming he's scum, it's the most likely explanation.  That's why I picked rolefishing for the initial accusation. 
After that, I really don't care about the rolefishing, since what I wanted from NQT was not a justification for the specific charge of rolefishing, but rather an explanation of what he was actually doing and why he thinks it will help Town.
Simple possibilities are more likely to be right.  If he'd focused on the rolefishing accusation (as, I might add, you yourself are doing), that would be another indicator that he's scum, since he'd be demonstrably unable to get out of the scum mindset.  As for what he's actually doing, I didn't know.  That's why I questioned him about it.
I said "potentially" because his action could be interpreted as scum or town, and I hadn't decided what I was going to interpret it as.  I wanted to hear NQT's explanation before I made the decision.

If you didn't want a justification for rolefishing, then why did you accuse him of rolefishing? I don't see how he can respond to that other than "I'm not rolefishing".

I know how this game goes.  If I use first or second-person pronouns when referring to us as Town, you pin me as scum for buddying.  If I refer to the Town players in third person, you pin me as scum for not relating to Town.  Damned if I do, damned if I don't.  You're nitpicking now, and I can see my vote on you is well-earned.

Actually its just the word "we".

I did make that assumption from the start of the game, yes.

If you make that assumption, then why wouldn't all the town claim without discussion thus forcing scum to go along anyways?

It was both. I found it scummy, so I put a pressure vote and wanted the vote and accompanying post to push the game out of RVS.

Backpedaling again.  Let me show you what this looks like to me:

It was both, but it was really only the first thing I said.  I was lying through my teeth trying to downplay my scumminess with that second quote.

Meh. Believe what you want.

Not prison, but you're on the right track.  Like I said, I'm holding off on that until it's time to roleclaim.

Ok I guess.

So, let me get this straight.  You had a few issues with one of my posts, and felt that that was sufficient justification to drop everything to attack me aggressively enough that you believed it would end RVS.  You somehow still think this doesn't qualify as tunneling.  Do I have that much, at least, correct?

It was enough to attack, but I wasn't tunneling since I was also looking into others.

Are you not satisfied with the explanations I provided?  Looks to me like you're insisting you have a valid point with no solid ground to stand on.

No not really.

And why not?  Have you ever thought about preparing for a zombie apocalypse?  What if you're abducted by aliens?  How would you react if someone sitting at a table across from you in a restaurant started choking on a fishbone?  Do you keep a first aid kit and/or a fire extinguisher in your house?

Almost no chance of happening. No, don't know, call for help, yes. I don't understand these questions.

None, at the moment.  Meta-reads based on prior gameplay are only one aspect of the art.  At this point I'm attempting to predict how she will adjust her meta for this game specifically.  Yes, it's speculative.  No, there's no way in hell I'd try to use any results in an argument.  They're intended use is to shortcut scumhunting so I know where to focus my energy.

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhh..... I think thats a bad idea because of confirmation bias.

Questions -> Reads == Questions -> Content -> Reads
Are you capable of making intuitive leaps of your own, or do we have to go over every single step of every single train of logic?

RVS ends after getting content.

[Tiruin]

No, I mean by it being a generality. Anyone could use the reason of 'this is why we lynch scum'.

Fine.  Tiruin, I have no idea what you're saying here, it includes no questions, and I've made up my mind on you so I'm not particularly inspired to try and figure out what you're saying.

PS: Please don't try obvious diversion.

It's connected to the question, if you used semantics to check.

However, that's your only basis, Vector? Perceived danger?

In that case, I'd like to know your thought process on that point.

I don't think Tiruin is a witch because it would be very stupid for a witch to claim third party before any suspicion was on her. She's probably panicking because she loses if she dies.[...]

You don't know how worse it'll get.

She might be kinda like the devil in Supernatural mafias.

...Err, wat. Explain?

[zombie urist]

The devil offered powers to people, but once 3 ppl accepted, they all left with the devil.
I'm saying that short-term, the devil (and maybe your role) is beneficial to town but long term, not really.

I don't think Tiruin is a witch because it would be very stupid for a witch to claim third party before any suspicion was on her. She's probably panicking because she loses if she dies.[...]

You don't know how worse it'll get.

Seems like you don't know either cause you haven't said anything specific about it. 

[Tiruin]

Nay, I'm basing that from the information I received :/ Or, y'know, lack of information. But the case being that people just stereotype and hate third-parties? That's nothing to panic about, but something that just..hits me wrong. Very very very wrong.

It's like they're ego-hurt because of the past WCs, something a newbie to Witches' Coven won't understand, and in any context, isn't a valid reason to stand on. I mean, heck. I expected scumhunting to come out of it, but their votes stick for irrational reasons.

All of said people not even poking at the reason on why the third-party claimed. The implications of one claiming...

It's just wrong and I'm disgusted, to repeat that point. Vector wants me out because of the possibility of a threat (the most superficial reason anyone would want to lynch.) Toaster is..well, he's obfuscating me for a blunt reason on him as well as poor logic. I've no idea what Leafsnail is doing other than 'Lynch the non-townie!'

...What is wrong with you people.[/stressed]

[Vector]

I want you out because you didn't claim information that town needed immediately.  It should have been, like, your first post, but you didn't claim until the fire went on.  This makes you anti-town, and therefore I want you dead.  This is very simple.

You used "jerk" a lot in your posts, but you may have been talking to Toaster.  Lenglon has said a couple times that I come off slimy.  This is not why I want you dead, however.  It just makes me mildly irritated.

[Tiruin]

You used "jerk" a lot in your posts, but you may have been talking to Toaster.  Lenglon has said a couple times that I come off slimy.  This is not why I want you dead, however.  It just makes me mildly irritated.

...You do realize that I quote a person's post, and then any text below it talks about that post, right? :/ Yes, I do use jerk, but because how their posting style reflects such that they aren't willing to listen (or at least downplay) to the person they're voting on and discarding the notion of rational gameplay in favor of..

...A perceived threat.

I want you out because you didn't claim information that town needed immediately.  It should have been, like, your first post, but you didn't claim until the fire went on.

Uh huh. I claimed when asked--I didn't claim information because I'm unsure of it. Where unsure = incomplete. But alright, I got that point. Give everyone information without being asked, that's fine. Scum or town, if I don't give info, it'd not help town but it won't help the more informed party--the mafia, either. The information I have is in its general terms, and like I said, would prefer less if people made up their minds on more pressing matters.

That is also simple.

[Lenglon]

sorry about that, power went out on me, let me see what happened while I was out...
...
...
"what? WHAT?
I appear to be running out of votes, this is a problem."
Unvote: my vote is needed elsewhere, Otto still deserves a lynch.
Ottofar:"Please, please oh please oh please oh please, DO SOMETHING."

As for my scumhunting: I'm happy with my pick and I feel no particular need to do much more.  You should all vote Tiruin because she doesn't have the town's best interests at heart and is making emotional appeals like none other in her attempt to backpedal and explain "no, I'm REALLY pro-town!"

Tiruin, I don't care how many times you call me a slimy jerk.  My vote is parked here and it's not leaving until you're dead.

...
Vector: why are you being so hypocritical? You're making far more emotional appeals than Tiruin is, and right after I gave you leeway based on my emotional read of you. Do you not realize that blatant manipulation is blatant? I still think you were honestly angry back there, but as I said when I unvoted you, that's not direct proof of your case being real. now you're pulling this? Vector, you need to rethink your strategy.

Lenglon, ZU, NQT, ToonyMan, IronyOwl : You five out of the total audience have stated insight and/or interest towards this debate here, what is your read and view on this?

Toaster seemed decently townie to me, up until I followed your link regarding his lie. even then I didn't understand it on the first read-through. one moment while I pick out the important quote from the text:
first of all, the lie itself:

Toaster

Lastly, what your remark to NQT is, is my point on you.

Okay, I'll grant you this one.  You said "I'm not a witch" within the context of your previous claim of not being third party, when I read it separately.  Consider my complaint on that post dropped.  [...]

A very nice startup until you found something actually suspicious about him. The bolded portion contradicts whatever you posted towards me, however, as only now after I shown you the error, you backtrack.

This is a lie.  NQT clarified this for me, not you.

Toaster
I explicitly said I wasn't 3rd party, you even quoted where I said it. I'm going to give you one last chance as it's still possible that you're being as dense as your namesake. Unless you have a crumb tray where your rational faculties ought be you'll know exactly what I was saying when I told you to think back to your previous witches games and reflect on what I was doing early on this game. I'm calling you out as confirmed scum if you don't see what I'm saying. You're allowed to disbelieve me but you should at least stop misrepresenting what I'm telling you.

August 12, 2013, 12:48:52 am

Yes he clarified it. I did that before he stated this.

next, proof that it was no accident or a simple failure to read:

You quoted it before. You read it, presumably.

Let me link it. I thoroughly believe you commented on this.

Number 1. Parenthesized sentence.

(yet it is strange seeing how he doesn't address it explicitly, he does [prior to bad semantics] say  I am not, as you say, a "third party". I am a journeyman carpenter." The second sentence throws it off.)

The punctuation.

I make this clearer.
4 hours post-NQT above there.

Accuse less, think more.

That right there makes toaster pretty darn scummy.
next, there's toaster's actions towards NQT, where he repeatedly accuses him of deflection when NQT gave an explicit, direct, and perfectly clear answer. When he got pressed on it, he said that returning a variation of a questioner's question back to the questioner, even after answering the question themselves, is scummy. that is nonsense.
then there's toaster's whole "behavior pattern change" section of his case on Tiruin, which makes zero sense.
The reason the lie was so damning is because it shifts the way I've been viewing his case on Tiruin. previously I thought he was being honest and direct, if misguided. Now I have explicit evidence of him being dishonest and indirect. I already had evidence of him doing such to NQT, but wasn't certain he was scum over it. him doing it twice, especially since he picked as his target someone who was focusing him and had a bullseye on her due to having made an abnormal (but not scummy) claim, makes a clear pattern of unacceptable behavior. Like I said earlier, I try to look at people's actions over time, and Toaster has established a pattern of misrepresentation of facts and picking on targets of opportunity.
Unvote

Toaster's scum.

-snip-

They can self-confirm for their personal nightkills. a SK will not suicide with his kill, so that is one less non-mafia for the SK to target. this makes SK random-kills more likely to kill mafia than a random-lynch.
As for why random-kills are technically slightly pro-town, that is because that being the case is mandatory for a day 1 lynch to make sense at all. if a random-kills aren't pro-town, then a day 1 no-lynch is actually a perfectly viable option for the town to choose.
ZU and ONR: why is your argument inside spoilers?

-snip-

Unvote
I need to shift my vote to one of the prime lynch targets, we're low on time before day end and I don't know if I'll be available again in time. my options are Tiruin, NQT, and Leafsnail. I don't see how lynching Tiruin helps us, and I don't undestand why people are voting Leafsnail.
NQT: the case you've been pushing at Leafsnail is would have been very flimsy even if I hadn't claimed the townie wincon three days before Leafsnail's question. your current pressure upon him is borderline crazy. I'm not certain you're scum, but you seem far likelier to be scum than Tiruin or Leafsnail. You were blatently panicing earlier, and although you eventually calmed down, you really should have kept your cool much better as a townie.

[Tiruin]

Err, I'm still in PFP though but just noting that you've got 3 votes right there in one post. [Working]

[Lenglon]

Err, I'm still in PFP though but just noting that you've got 3 votes right there in one post. [Working]

"Yep, sure do. Got three unvotes in it too. I end up moving my vote from Ottofar to NQT"

[Dariush]

Toony... are you going for the record of maximum number of ties caused in a single game?

To be fair, you ignored NQT purposely.  I'm not sure I need to bring into question what I'm contributing, it's self-evident.

This is one bullshit evasion. It is not self-evident. I want to see your answer to the question and an explanation of why you think NQT is town.

ZU:

Ottofar:
Being passive. Basically all his posts are him answering and responding to accusations.
Hasn't found anyone really suspicions besides than NQT/Lenglon. 1
Minimal scumhunting. There's a lot of posts on NQT but not much about anyone else.

zombie urist:
Being passive. Basically all his posts are him answering and responding to accusations.
Hasn't found anyone really suspicions besides than Ottofar/ONR.
Minimal scumhunting. There's a lot of posts on ONR but not much about anyone else.

Did you notice how after changing the names the quote remained totally valid, you little lazy hypocrite?

LS:

Unvote.  Vote Tiruin.  Tell us your win condition.  Without knowing that it's best to lynch the confirmed non-townie.

Way to discard any scumhunting and go for the laziest choice possible that can both backfire by having Tiruin be town-aligned and prvent future town-aligned third parties from claiming for fear of being lynched. Did I mention that she is almost certainly not scum due to having a benevolent power and that she has no way to defend from your accusation? Because that is also there.

Dariush: You're voting NQT, someone who has claimed they are confirmed town.  Why haven't you addressed that claim in any way?

Oh, NQT claimed confirmed town?

Seriously, how does that matter at all? Since when it is possible for someone to simply announce they are confirmed town, especially when they are extremely likely scum?

In fact you seem to have been ignoring him for a while.  Parking your vote on someone and then talking about other things until the day runs out doesn't seem like your usual playstyle at all.

I don't see any point in answering his puny imitations of scumhunting. He is a lazy fuck who won't change his vote because that would leave him exposed to a lynch. In fact, most of his 'scumhunting' so far was merely intended to draw away attention from himself on people, concluding in such brilliant and highly complex cases as 'lurking' (towards Ottofar) and 'oh hey, it looks like public attention is shifting towards LS, I should probably vote him' towards you.

Dariush: Really uncharacteristic active-lurking and not caring about his vote, or indeed the lynch.  Likely scum.

Active-lurking? Quotes. Not caring about my vote? Oh, you mean like when I switched my vote about a dozen times over the course of the day? That is not caring about my vote.