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[zombie urist]

I said I was going to make a better post later. Anyways I weighed the points between NQT/Ottofar/Tiruin and here's my summary/conclusion.

Ottofar:
Being passive. Basically all his posts are him answering and responding to accusations.
Hasn't found anyone really suspicions besides than NQT/Lenglon. 1
Minimal scumhunting. There's a lot of posts on NQT but not much about anyone else.

NQT:
Heavy focus on flavor early game. I can kinda see what he's trying to do with this.
Panicky + desperate to stay alive.

Tiruin:
For the time being, I think I can believe what she's saying. But her case on Toaster is incoherent and reactionary. The ward thing looks fine so far and I think she can help town for the time being.

The biggest point that sets NQT/Ottofar apart is NQT is at least trying to find witches, while Ottofar really hasn't.

I'm setting aside all points based on the wincon claims because Lenglon claimed hers before anyone else and anyone could have seen it. 

So, that's the fourth vote on him, for a remarkably lazy-ass reason at that. Can you indeed say that the best case you've scrounged during the entire day is someone being passive? What happened to your utmost conviction that ONR is scum that you kept up from your very first post of the game?

Did Griffionday teach you how to count? Anyways the better case is above. I still think ONR is scummy, but no one else agrees and I've been wrong before so I'm going to put him on hold.

NQT: My ancestors might have been from there but I'm not.

There's a big post from ONR that's been sitting around and I'll get to that after I get some work done.

ppe: Ottofar

So, yeah, I'm pretty much a confirmed townie right now, so everyone should probably stop voting me.

You should explain too.

[Vector]

ToonyMan:

Okay, next time I'll just say I'm angry because they're unreasonable without explaining why I'm being angry in the face of stupid rather than calm, collected, and humble in the face of stupid as I usually am.

Thank you (sincerely) for actually providing a recommended course of action.  I shall behave as suggested in future.

[Leafsnail]

Responses, new stuff in next post

Are you sure about that?  I wasn't under the interpretation that things usually work that way.

Apparently not.  LNCP's previous answer certainly lead me to think that though.

(I'm very under the weather right now.  I snapped yesterday because I feel like I consistently am called "slimy" or just "off" in these games regardless of my alignment, with no other descriptor or claim, and there's no way to defend against that.  Yeah, your gut is pinging you!  It's pinging wrong, just like it did the last three times.  How am I to prove myself un-wishy-washy?  Your claims aren't specific enough for me to do anything about or even address.

I'm not sure what you mean at all.  I made specific allegations re: spending more time not scumhunting than scumhunting.  I'll talk more about in the post following this one.

I haven't trusted you Leafsnail this entire game, but damn, you're pushing a lynch on Ottofar hard and that is Scumsnail if I ever saw one.

I think I was perfectly justified in saying that given the answer LNCP gave me (he said that yes, quoting a single word from your PM would be modkillable).  He has since changed that answer though so it's not the case.

Leafsnail— You see now that your recent reason for voting doesn't really make sense. He mentioned elimination before anyone else. Frankly, I think you are the witch here. In a game where the setting is of paramount importance you alone have refused to engage in the most rudimentary of ways. You are afraid of incriminating yourself with your name and profession. Barring having to break a tie, my vote is not shifting off of you until I we hear what your name and profession is. Reread the OP or PM the mod: this game is about the setting.

He did mention elimination, which I was pretty sure would count as quoting his role PM if he were town (and would according to the rules written in the OP).  Apparently that isn't the case.

However, I believe your reasoning contains a fundamental flaw.  If you think this wincon stating is such iron proof of towniness, why are you voting me when I clearly demonstrated knowledge of the town wincon in my question to Ottofar?  Can you explain what I could've been asking with that question if I didn't know the wincon?  If wincon stating isn't proof of towniness, why did you mark yourself and Ottofar as confirmed town?

And sure, this game features some setting elements.  However, it's a mafia game first.  Getting obsessed with the setting when we don't actually have any useful information to go off with it is timewasting at best.  Today's lynch is not going to be based on flavour claiming at all, and if that's the case then I don't see any reason to claim.

Further, the game having setting elements doesn't necessarily mean that publically revealing aspects of ourselves would have a pro-town effect.  It could be that setting investigation would assist the mafia (eg, if investigation linked roles to professions).  The fact that every witch must have been willing to claim reinforces this view to me.

So, yeah, I'm pretty much a confirmed townie right now, so everyone should probably stop voting me. I don't exactly appreciate Leafsnail pushing me here, but eh.

Also, school started on tuesday. That involves shenanigans, apparently, so I'll proably read this properly on the weekend. If the shenanigans continue after that, I'll request a replacement. Terribly sorry about this.

I will say that this is a ridiculously weak basis for calling someone a confirmed townie.  The word "eliminate" is in the opening flavour post, and if the witch wincon involves the word "eliminate" it wouldn't be a difficult inference to make.  I think it's really suspicious than NQT is prepared to tout it as a proof that Ottofar is definitely town, before even asking questions about whether the mafia has access to the town wincon.

The thing about traps like that is that they can only really prove someone is scum (like Nerjin in VLR), a decently prepared mafia member can still avoid them.

[Leafsnail]

Fakeedit: missed one

Leafsnail, why do you think NQT is town?

I don't anymore because his championing of himself and Ottofar as town is really odd.  Previously I did because what he was doing seemed to match my previous experiences of him as town and I thought a bandwagon like that was unlikely to form against a mafia member.

[Lenglon]

If this were a standard game, except you wincon was "Eliminate the mafia and town wins" and there was a serial killer in the game, would you want to get rid of the serial killer?

not until the day before Mylo/Lylo, for the same reason as why you always lynch day 1, and why a vig always kills. random-kills are theoretically slightly pro-town. and the SK and vig both can automatically self-confirm as non-mafia, which doesn't happen with the lynch. the reason I'd want to kill the SK before Mylo/Lylo is because that's when their wincon will actively interfere with town activities, and they'll be motivated to cooperate with the scum (SK + scum @ mylo can force a tie vote, SK + scum @ lylo can force a mislynch).

Toaster:if you have some insight in how SK and Vig differ, or a better way to handle them, I'd like to hear it.

Unvote
-
Ottofar

This is one of those things you should explain.

same reason I had my vote on him before I shifted it to Vector for a moment to press her on her case. He isn't hunting. It's nothing new so I didn't think there was a need for me to comment on it.

[Vector]

Not talking about you, Leafsnail.  That was directed mostly at Lenglon.

[Leafsnail]

FE2: on rereading I see that I missed this one too

Also that's pretty clearly my wincon considering the trap I was trying to set up before you ruined it in return for a completely useless question.

Now that the trap is sprung, are you going to soft-claim?  Or are you holding out on that for a different trap?

No.  The reason I'm not softclaiming is more because I see no benefit to doing so today.  Nobody has any flavour based information that could help deduce alignments, and further I don't think it's likely that any of the roles would stand out as obviously scum since the witches can doppelgang.  Thus claiming today just gives the mafia better targets for tonight.  The case for flavour claiming day two is a lot stronger (it's more likely that someone will actually have some relevant info) so I'll claim then.

[Leafsnail]

Unvote.  Vote Tiruin.  Tell us your win condition.  Without knowing that it's best to lynch the confirmed non-townie.

Well, take this with skepticism. All third-parties I play that aren't SKs are pro-town because I want to side with the less-informed team.

I'd like to point out that you killed two townies in Toon Mafia, after lying about being a pro-town third party.  In other words, this statement is untrue.  Why are you lying?

NQT:

That's what I wanted to hear Ottofar! Exactement! Okay, you've just told me that you're a town player. My wincon also explicitly states elimination. I guess I was being a bit stupid because I see what you were saying in your earlier post. Unvote. I think you're a terrible tunneling player who has just wasted a lot of time, but at least you're a terrible tunneling town player.

Up until this point, you were calling Ottofar scum.  Yet you are prepared to completely change your tune once he mentions the word "elimination".  Several questions arise:
1. Why did you declare him to be confirmed town before even checking whether the mafia could access the town wincon, or thinking about whether it might be possible to guess it?  Did you not consider that quoting a word like that could be modkillable?
2. Why did you then switch to me, in spite of the fact that I demonstrated knowledge of the wincon before you came out and stated it?
3. If you rate wincon hunting so highly, why did you decide to scupper it by publically posting the general gist of the town win condition in return for a totally useless question?

Here is a story which I think explains your actions.

The scum wincon probably involves eliminating townies.  You saw my ominous question, and worked out the gist of it by referring to your own wincon and possibly Toon Mafia (which had something similar).  You then came up with a plan to "confirm" yourself and Ottofar.

Do you have an alternate version of events?

Ottofar: If you "don't like wincon hunting" then why did you use it to try and confirm yourself as town?  Why haven't you done anything except trying to confirm yourslf as town?  If you're town then "not getting lynched" isn't sufficient to win.  Further, why are you voting NQT?  If your mentioning of "elimination" is sufficient to prove that you're town, then surely NQT's question clears him too.

Vector:

I'm not sure who is, specifically, mafia members.  I'm convinced that Lenglon is town and Tiruin is scum of some sort.  Ottofar and NQT are looking bad, but I keep feeling like there's someone on the sidelines who I haven't caught onto yet.  Something just feels off.

I'm gathering intel, but I'll be arsed if I'm going to do this the high-energy way instead of the detail-focused way.  This group of players hasn't figured out yet just how important wording is so it's a valid hunting technique again, and I intend to save myself the emotional effort.  I can go through and make a big case with lots and lots of evidence, the way this subforum likes, when it's lynching time.  But right now I'm getting data my way.

If it's about levels of energy then I don't understand why you were putting so much energy into the non-scumhunting stuff I mentioned.  I'm still seeing this in spades, by the way - while I do agree with you voting Tiruin, you've also been making a bunch of off-topic posts and not really doing much scumhunting otherwise.  You also haven't commented on the NQT/Ottofar thing in spite of the fact that you listed them as suspects here, and the fact that there are a whole tonne of questions you could ask them.

It's not so much about needing to make a big case - I would accept reads with fairly short or subjective explanations, because if they seem genuine then they help demonstrate that a scumhunting process is occuring.

Lenglon:

Vector: Is your wincon to eliminate all witches? if not, why shouldn't we lynch you, using the same arguments you're using against Tiruin? if so, why are you voting and pushing for a lynch that will not forward your wincon?

This seems like a slip.  How do you know Tiruin isn't a witch?  Your defence of her is weird.

Dariush: You're voting NQT, someone who has claimed they are confirmed town.  Why haven't you addressed that claim in any way?  In fact you seem to have been ignoring him for a while.  Parking your vote on someone and then talking about other things until the day runs out doesn't seem like your usual playstyle at all.

Did I miss anything?

next post coming soonish.

Where is it?

Overall scumreads:
Tiruin: if her claimed win condition isn't pro-town then she should be lynched.  Lynching a neutral/bad third-party does no real harm, and since there's a chance she's scum lynching her would be best.  Not so sure about whether she's scum since third parties give off similar reads.

(from here on reads from strongest->weakest)

NQT: His recent actions are contradictory, and I can't think of a town explanation for them.  Scum.

Dariush: Really uncharacteristic active-lurking and not caring about his vote, or indeed the lynch.  Likely scum.

Vector: Has a strange focus on non-scumhunting over scumhunting, and seems to not really be doing much about her lack of reads.  Possible scum.

Ottofar: His actions seem weird, and NQT's attitude towards him implies he may be a teammate.  Reading back though, I'm seeing an NQT/Ottofar pairing as making less sense than I previously thought it did.  Possible scum.

[Lenglon]

Leafsnail: I don't understand your accusation, could you please explain further?

I am taking Tiruin at her word that she is a third party. I do not know that she is telling the truth, but I see no reason for her to lie about it. the amount of hostility that third parties draw, combined with the fact that she was under minimal pressure when she claimed, makes it unlikely in my eyes that she is a witch claiming third party.

[Lenglon]

oh, and Leafsnail: read my posts please, your case on NQT is weaker than it could be. specifically:

Like I mean christ, that wincon was basically a free mafia member dead and you just ruined it.

not really, I still don't fully understand how your plan worked, but the townie wincon was already given away waaaaay back here:

the word "witch" never shows itself directly in my past (beyond my win condition statement - eliminate all witches - and it is noteworthy that it says nothing about third parties at all in my win condition)

and on that subject, I do not favor a Tiruin-lynch for the simple and direct reason of Tiruin isn't a witch if she is third-party, and our wincon is to eliminate all witches, not to eliminate all non-town.

somehow you didn't read this one.

[Tiruin]

Vector: Please don't miss out what I'm still asking you and dropping everything you've had. You seemingly missed this, and don't wish to give a follow up based on a poor vote there.

I'm really feeling rejected on that matter and that you don't care as much as Toaster on it, but glad to just let the vote stick on dubious grounds.

Toaster

Tiruin:

Why should I insult others and try to aggravate them? That's never in my nature. The one above? Poking at your stupid reason of LYNCH ALL THIRD-PARTIES TROLOLOL.

I'll fully respond to you when I have more time (since your posts are longer and basically just rehashes) but the TL;DR is I'm still voting to see you lynched, and yes, largely because you're third party and third party is bad.

...You really are obstinate in failing to provide rational ideas here, aren't you. The bolded portion states your bias and incredulous thinking. Generalization that my posts are rehashes is a great way for passive-aggression on downplaying someone else.

I really like the atmosphere in this game in how it doesn't have any role-ist bias (stereotypes are the worst thing you can defend against, and it really inspires a feeling of hatred towards the idea, because that's what I'm feeling. Weak case. Total BS. Categorization. Generalization.

All because of your failures in the past)

-And feel like it's not leaking out of the ideas of concise logic and the spirit of Mafia.[/frickin'sarcasm - this is how pissed I am at certain people, but moreso when they commit utter scumtells and come off to most as..non-scum.]

Lenglon, ZU, NQT, ToonyMan, IronyOwl : You five out of the total audience have stated insight and/or interest towards this debate here, what is your read and view on this?

Especially in Witches' Coven.

Actually, I'll throw one at you for now, since it sticks out so hard:

> He's using bad logic and metaknowledge to back up his vote.
> He's using spurious claims (that lie thing I pointed out? Yeah.) to back up his case on me.
> He's not being definite about his case on me, but rather use the fallacy of appealing to ignorance to prod at me.
> Wasting a vote on a third-party mainly because of said metaknowledge without explaining the context WHY he's doing so or why he's believing I claimed in the first place, but coming off from that tangent.

1.  Without metaknowledge, your claim becomes this:  "Hey guys I'm not town but you can totally trust me, okay?"  Answer: no, I don't.
2.  What lie?
3+4:  These are bullshit.  I have been loud and clear about why I am voting you.  I am voting you because you are claimed third party, and third party is very likely bad.  There's other details I've posted that I'm all done repeating myself over.

Oho. 'Especially in Witches' Coven'. Emphasis much? For what reason.

1. Yeah, sure. Prove it from your frickin' viewpoint enough to not go off as handwaving everything else I say. Especially in:
2. Read for once. You're really coming off as desperate to lynch a third-party based PURELY on previous events. IN OTHER GAMES. What I see there is more of a subtle push in the face of wasting a lynch than not.
3-4. Loud and clear in the notion of tooting your confabulous horn. Meaning: Spouting nothing but loud words and aggression without the essence of one who is scumhunting. The bolded portion plays truly to possibility and outguessing a moderator instead of doing anything rational, or even reasonable. The orange portion is a subtle diversion from instead of quoting the EXACT phrase or statement, and backs up my view of you quoting entire passages without even stating why or how they exactly matter. Which leads back to my initial case on you regarding NQT.

Why don't you respond to that first, Witch.

ToonyMan

I do mind my own death, but am unsure on the repercussions. General repercussions, as it would affect everyone involved. The cases against me..aren't understandable, really. Voting people because they're third-party? That's a run-off cause, and needs expounding. Those who are doing such aren't expounding but bringing in a can of spoiled worms: metaknowledge. If you'd like a point, Toaster speaks about third-parties and if they're benevolent, why aren't they town. I answered to my best knowledge why, but the real answer is if you'd ask the mod what he's thinking.
What do you see about the cases against me, ToonyMan? I detect the presence of that 'Even if' which comes off to me as you subtly inserting your doubt on those cases.

Uh well, Toaster is being lazy (I seem to remember them voting NQT for "almost certainly being third-party" and Vector is being even worse.  Your ward on me could be seen as brownie points (buddying), but buddying one person wouldn't really save you.  Toaster has the best case on you with more facts, Vector has the "off-feeling" bit that she used against me in the opposite manner, heh...I think she also said because you're third-party which would make sense.

If 'lazy' is the best adjective you're applying to him, then perhaps I'm seeing him in a totally different view. I'm curious about that notion--what exactly is 'lazy' on him?

...Brownie points? New word to know. Anyway: buddying? How in the world could that be buddying? How does Toaster have the best case on me? What points convince you of it, and are there any points that don't?

NQT

Tiruin

Only, you said you were on an errand from our father AND you also said you were out to stop a non-witch thread. I'm trying to put 2 and 2 together here.

Why did you even claim this early? It's unfathomable. You really don't like me questioning you, and I'm not even voting you. Also you omitted the point about magic which makes me think you're something magical.

...

'Our'?

@Orange: ...You misinterpret my comment about your questioning and place an I don't like your questioning me, instead?

This is very strange, NQT.

I meant 'your'— it was a typo. Are you saying that you do like my questioning then? If so, then why didn't you answer my mention of magic for the second time running?

And now my cynical side is saying you're copying Toaster's stubbornness in getting ideas and making me really want to snark at you. Did you miss the point where I said the difference lies in how and not the matter that you're questioning me?

...I don't even get why you're now appealing to the 'like/dislike' my questioning, because it's all coming off as you twisting words and words without getting straight to a point.

Next: That wasn't a question, it was a statement. It came off as an opinion, and I didn't poke at it because I didn't think it was important to do so.

But I'm seeing a lapse of information now that I get to the root of it.

Also you omitted the point about magic which makes me think you're something magical.

Omitted what point about magic?

NQT: I'd really love it for YOU to address my questions now, at the moment. Every single one I asked you instead of you playing your own instead.

And on why in the world you're using current events to respond to others in OTHER GAMES, as another note.

As I explained in the other thread, I like to point to actual evidence from other games. I wasn't using the info in any way to build a case against anyone. You seem very touchy. Is there anything else you'd like to know?

[/quote]
...In the other thread.

Well, let me explain in this thread how I'm touchy ABOUT THAT MATTER. It's great enough for you to use as frickin' evidence to others as something to base upon. It hurt me, deeply. It hurt me as a player and as a person. Where I saw it, makes me think that you didn't care enough to read on what the person says and just generalize said person as a statement you could use.

If you think that's touchy, then try talking about people behind their back in public. I've faced more than enough of that and knew about it more than enough in my childhood, thanks. The emotional aspect is more due to trauma in my past than not, and I really hated you for that at the time.

So yeah, that's touchy. The cynicism. The assumption. The defensiveness. Yeah. Pretty much touchy in a personal way, but I discard that now that the nightmare has passed.

Ending note: Actual evidence--now that speaks more of you than not--especially when you're lacking information about the person.

But my intuition disagrees. It feels like you've something else against me that you aren't saying in public.

What are you hiding, NQT?

Leafsnail

Leafsnail— You see now that your recent reason for voting doesn't really make sense. He mentioned elimination before anyone else. Frankly, I think you are the witch here. In a game where the setting is of paramount importance you alone have refused to engage in the most rudimentary of ways. You are afraid of incriminating yourself with your name and profession. Barring having to break a tie, my vote is not shifting off of you until I we hear what your name and profession is. Reread the OP or PM the mod: this game is about the setting.

He did mention elimination, which I was pretty sure would count as quoting his role PM if he were town (and would according to the rules written in the OP).  Apparently that isn't the case.

Hm, I detect a weird bit of inconsistency here. Your point on elimination being an exact seems pretty much a case to build on, why? Pre-LNCP clarification, that is.

PPE:

Unvote.  Vote Tiruin.  Tell us your win condition.  Without knowing that it's best to lynch the confirmed non-townie.

I prefer you read first.

Why is it 'best' to lynch the confirmed non-townie? Emphasis on the term 'townie' due to the idea you're subtly pushing there.

Well, take this with skepticism. All third-parties I play that aren't SKs are pro-town because I want to side with the less-informed team.

I'd like to point out that you killed two townies in Toon Mafia, after lying about being a pro-town third party.  In other words, this statement is untrue.  Why are you lying?

I love how you label people without reading the context they provide.

I said, before, that while I was an SK, I was UNABLE TO KILL ANYONE before completing my quota of RITUALS performed at the time. I was pro-town there, both in the notion of 'I'd like scum killed' and helping the town is a more of a reasonable application of my playstyle than not. Before that time, I was more of a vanilla RangerCado in the way that I could only fulfill my wincon if I stayed at home and did nothing.

...And the context here is really something I see you misunderstand, but prod at in a falsely accusatory way. But I get what you're trying to do.

Something else I would add on the matter would ease clarification but I would need to ask the Mod to tell it, which is ToonyMan. But I'm under the impression that in doing so, would breaches his rules on the point.

GAH PPE.

[Leafsnail]

@Lenglon: Huh.  I'd suggest putting spacing between separate responses, I thought that was all addressed to Tiruin (the fact that your username looks similar to mine at a glance didn't help).  That does change everything.

Hm, I detect a weird bit of inconsistency here. Your point on elimination being an exact seems pretty much a case to build on, why? Pre-LNCP clarification, that is.

I'm not sure what the bolded sentence means.  Could you clarify?

I prefer you read first.

Why is it 'best' to lynch the confirmed non-townie? Emphasis on the term 'townie' due to the idea you're subtly pushing there.

I don't think you've explicitly stated your win con yet.  And the reason why it's best is because day one lynches usually hit townies.  This is a bad thing.  Therefore if you can guarantee a lynch won't do that then that's a good thing, and means that lynch will likely be better than other options.

I love how you label people without reading the context they provide.

I said, before, that while I was an SK, I was UNABLE TO KILL ANYONE before completing my quota of RITUALS performed at the time. I was pro-town there, both in the notion of 'I'd like scum killed' and helping the town is a more of a reasonable application of my playstyle than not. Before that time, I was more of a vanilla RangerCado in the way that I could only fulfill my wincon if I stayed at home and did nothing.

...And the context here is really something I see you misunderstand, but prod at in a falsely accusatory way. But I get what you're trying to do.

I think you're missing my point.  I'm saying that if what you're saying is true ("As third party, I always help town if I can, even if that's not part of my wincon") then you wouldn't have acted as you did in Toon Mafia.  In Toon Mafia you waited until you had a chance to win and took it.  Which is fair enough, but if you were truly acting in the most townie way possible you could've tried to arrange to hit mafia with it rather than random people.

[Okami No Rei]

notquitethere - Tonight is my last chance to post before the day ends, so this is my vote to lynch (I won't be home from work tomorrow until 2300 GMT).  I agree that NQT and Ottofar are probable scumbuddies.

I don't think we should kill Tiruin just yet.  This game wouldn't be nearly as interesting if we didn't expect LNCP to try something new, and (semi?)benevolent third-parties would be a good way to shake things up.

Zombie Urist - You've posted several times, and I've yet to see anything approaching a response to this post.  Why are you stalling, scum?

Current Reads:

So, ZU, NQT, and Otto are my current picks for witches.

Vector is iffy.  Maybe scum.  Maybe IRL difficulties giving off play.

Dariush is Dariush.  Seems scum, but when does he not?

Irony/Deathsword and griffinpup - No read.

Lenglon, Leafsnail, and Toaster - Town.

Toonyman's claim seems like a scum/third-party red herring.  Town.

Tiruin - [humor]Clearly third-party.[/humor]

[Tiruin]

Hm, I detect a weird bit of inconsistency here. Your point on elimination being an exact seems pretty much a case to build on, why? Pre-LNCP clarification, that is.

I'm not sure what the bolded sentence means.  Could you clarify?

I prefer you read first.

Why is it 'best' to lynch the confirmed non-townie? Emphasis on the term 'townie' due to the idea you're subtly pushing there.

I don't think you've explicitly stated your win con yet.  And the reason why it's best is because day one lynches usually hit townies.  This is a bad thing.  Therefore if you can guarantee a lynch won't do that then that's a good thing, and means that lynch will likely be better than other options.

"Usually."

Bolded part: That query towards LNCP..and the modkill point. It seems much more of a matter to you than to most. And I'm restating this: the notion of a guarantee'd lynch here on the basis of the superficial notion of being a third-party is what I'm poking at. I get it that while you are acting only on role-basis, there should be more than what you're touting right now for it to be a substantial basis.

Because hey, as a speaker for third-partyness here, it's pretty much annoying how this is devolving now. I already told you my wincon. The fact that you're pushing for it gives space for suspicion as I can see that you can't help with it, clearly. The part there where you're against it also leads me to forwarding my idea in the first sentence in this paragraph here.

I think you're missing my point.  I'm saying that if what you're saying is true ("As third party, I always help town if I can, even if that's not part of my wincon") then you wouldn't have acted as you did in Toon Mafia.  In Toon Mafia you waited until you had a chance to win and took it.  Which is fair enough, but if you were truly acting in the most townie way possible you could've tried to arrange to hit mafia with it rather than random people.

..>__>
Mate, if you really knew what happened behind the lines, the whole thing would be different, but I can't give it out at the moment unless I've due word from the person directly connected to the matter you're poking at here. Hence why I'm pushing it away and/or discarding the point in lieu of your other points.

The orange part: I don't even know who was in the other houses. And..I don't get how 'truly acting' refers to town in that context as 'hitting mafia' is more like a blindshot there. Hopefully this clarifies more than what I said in the statement before this.

Okami

Tiruin - [humor]Clearly third-party.[/humor]

"I'm not laughing. But I'd love you to expound on those reads rather than state labels."

notquitethere - Tonight is my last chance to post before the day ends, so this is my vote to lynch (I won't be home from work tomorrow until 2300 GMT).  I agree that NQT and Ottofar are probable scumbuddies.

Why and how.

I don't think we should kill Tiruin just yet.  This game wouldn't be nearly as interesting if we didn't expect LNCP to try something new, and (semi?)benevolent third-parties would be a good way to shake things up.

Why not?

Also, are we now trying to outguess the mod judging by your wording here? That just..ugh. That's just horrible.

[Tiruin]

..Also, I really find it weird that your basis of comparison is 'D1 usually ends in a townie' lynch.

How do you know that the others choices are unfeasible than to do such? The majority of cases against me are not purely laid on rational basis, and I'm surprised that you're following the same course of thought Leafsnail.