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[Lenglon]

Lenglon: Hi! How familiar are you with LNCP games? You seem fairly opposed to the notion of third party automatically being dangerous, right?

I am not familiar with them, however I have been paying attention to what has been said about the past games, and I've consistently seen a pattern of patterns from past games being broken. as a result I am wary of assuming that facts from past games carry over into this one. I have yet to see a commonality from a past game proven to be true in this one.
Vector: now that I'm no longer recoiling, I'm really quite suspicious of your response to my vote. I will not be beaten into submission, and you failed to raise any new points. Seriously, what's up with you?
Irony: why did you vote someone with no votes on them, without extending, with only 13 hours left before day end?

[Tiruin]

Tiruin, when and what have you claimed (as part of your role) and why?

:/ Great.

I'd have to apologize and poke you at the lurkertracker for a fuller read, but this is as far as I've scrounged up. Rushing off to work.

Why? For while people would say I didn't warn y'all, I did. Only that I lack information on it. I claimed because I see nothing wrong with claiming it out.

..And probably to make myself a threat for those third-parties and such. Watching for reactions.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.

And I guess the recent posts.

Most of what was stated there is continued, I just caught up those where I claimed.

Vector, what the fuck is going on?

It's a...personal moment.

On the wording of her reaction, that is..Well, as far as I can glean from it.

PPE Lenglon.

[IronyOwl]

Lenglon:

Lenglon: Hi! How familiar are you with LNCP games? You seem fairly opposed to the notion of third party automatically being dangerous, right?

I am not familiar with them, however I have been paying attention to what has been said about the past games, and I've consistently seen a pattern of patterns from past games being broken. as a result I am wary of assuming that facts from past games carry over into this one. I have yet to see a commonality from a past game proven to be true in this one.

Well, like what? I'm a little outdated, but I think Jim Groovester summed up my current assumptions about LNCP games here:

Jim:  What lessons can you take from WC1 and 2 to apply to this game?

That being scum is hard.

Let's go back to a time before we knew how bastardly LNCP actually was. I am, of course, referring to the signups to Witches' Coven I. Bright-eyed with the chance for a flavor-heavy, flavor-relevant game of immense detail, we all signed up, clueless of the perils we were to face, especially those who were to have the misfortune of rolling a witch, like me.

Witches were the scum team. They had abilities of various use, but no kill. Who did? Why, none other than a vigilante lumberjack, a sociopath wizard who sought his rogue golem, and the rogue golem who was powered by lynches. In a game of roughly twelve.

We did not stand a chance.

Let us then move forward to a time when we thought there was no way LNCP could be that bastardly again. I am, of course, referring to the signups to Witches' Coven II. Slightly unsettled about the difficulties imposed on the roles, but still greatly entertained by the flavor and detail, we all signed up, confident in our assumption that there was no way LNCP could be even more bastardly than before.

How wrong we were. Especially for those of us who had the misfortune of being scum. I was on the Elf team. The Elf team was a cult. A cult with a mole. A mole who was also a member of the Witch team.

That was fucking bullshit.

Point being, I am going to confidently assert that the scum team is most likely not the biggest threat to the town. I don't know what the composition of the rest of the threats to the town will be, but I think they're going to be significantly more threatening than the formal scum team.

This being mentioned in a game where scum didn't stand a chance, mind you. Granted, there were no third parties that time, but the premise holds.

Irony: why did you vote someone with no votes on them, without extending, with only 13 hours left before day end?

I guess I should extend, but I'll be honest here. There's no way I'm going to be able to meaningfully sift through a game this large and come up with a satisfactory lynch candidate just on that.

Unless somebody explains to me what Ottofar's been doing other than lurking I'd probably be willing to help push a Tiruin lynch through if it comes to that. Otherwise, I think I'd rather just write this lynch off as something I'm not prepared for and start working on tomorrow.


Speaking of which, why did you unvote Ottofar, tying the vote?



Tiruin:

Tiruin, when and what have you claimed (as part of your role) and why?

:/ Great.

I'd have to apologize and poke you at the lurkertracker for a fuller read, but this is as far as I've scrounged up. Rushing off to work.

Why? For while people would say I didn't warn y'all, I did. Only that I lack information on it. I claimed because I see nothing wrong with claiming it out.

..And probably to make myself a threat for those third-parties and such. Watching for reactions.

Alright, so you're not town but witches are a threat to you indirectly somehow. Interesting.

Pardon if you've gone over this already (it's a rather long thread :x), but from town's perspective, why would you say they shouldn't lynch you? It's not uncommon for third parties to butt heads with the scumteam, and this is a game from a mod who's known for having third parties or "other scum" more dangerous than the scumteams themselves.


Also I forgot about this:

Anyway:

Tiruin: What did you just do?

A Guardian Angel is watching over him tonight. Anyone try to hit him or declaim my work as malevolent or WIFOM, you will burn.

Wait what? Are you saying anyone who impugns you will burn tonight?

[Tiruin]

Wait what? Are you saying anyone who impugns you will burn tonight?

No, I'm saying the notion of declaring such as something to burn. But no, unless anyone does something to me, I'm all free.

...I need to work on my wording.

Pardon if you've gone over this already (it's a rather long thread :x), but from town's perspective, why would you say they shouldn't lynch you? It's not uncommon for third parties to butt heads with the scumteam, and this is a game from a mod who's known for having third parties or "other scum" more dangerous than the scumteams themselves.

Well, take this with skepticism. All third-parties I play that aren't SKs are pro-town because I want to side with the less-informed team.

I don't mind town lynching me, but what I did state I'll mind is that those who are anathema to my goal will gain a rather significant advantage from the knowledge of my death. I do mind those who are voting me however, and what their reasons are just as I mind people on the policy lynch road without reasonable cases.

Also I really appreciate that tone..thanks.

[notquitethere]

Irony Owl— I'm voting Ottofar because he has parked a vote on a single player for the entire game and has been completely incapable of justifying his vote, with his reasons constantly shifting. His latest reasons is that he believes me to be a third-party, yet his vote has remained on me even after Tiruin has explictly claimed third-party. Dariush is also acting similarly with the added bonus of the fact that unlike Ottofar who responds but gives no reasonable justifications, Dariush doesn't even respond. The chances of them both being clueless townies approaches zero.

What do you think of Deathsword's play? Also can you answer this please:

Is your wincon to kill all witches?

Unless I missed your responses, I'm still waiting on Dariush, griffinpup, Vector and zombie urist. Yes Dariush, I'm actually asking that you respond to me for once if you can spare a moment in between your dazzling scumhunts.

Tiruin— if you become lynch target will you full claim? Can you tell us anything more before resorting to that that will help us trust you? Is your task related to the 'errand' you're running for your father?

Oppose extension: Ottofar's play has repeatedly confirmed him as anti-town, while Tiruin has claimed benevolent 3rd party without giving compelling reasons why we should believe her. If there's a tie at day's end, I'll be around to break it.

Ottofar— actually I've just realised something (perhaps the reason Leafsnail was so upset). Specifically, why does it matter whether I said kill or eliminate?

[Dariush]

A more apt observation would be what are you going to do about it?  How is placing my vote on Ottofar the same as him putting a vote on NQT a week ago?

Have anything else to say about the situation or are you disappointed your mislynch got fucked?

NQT is town because that's the impression I get off him.  I don't see how his concerns are anything but benevolent, if awkward.  He's participating far more than you are too.  PPE: He also seems to be aware of the town wincon which Leafsnail is cursing at.

Why are you sticking with Ottofar so much?  Why would you buddy your own scummate...

I was... of rather higher opinion of you before this post. Apparently, you're just another stupid self-important cretin.

1. It is completely identical: a vote on a lurker without any explanation other than to save NQT's ass.
2. Mislynch. So despite NQT being the embodiment of scumminess for the entire game and you not lifting a finger to dispute any part of my case you simply declare him a mislynch. Did he promise you a fu hug? Or maybe a win for your team?
3. His concerns? Like the part where he declared that Toaster would be guaranteed scum if NQT is lynched? Or maybe the part where he actually asked in huge bold font why we aren't voting Ottofar? Yep, totally benevolent and not intended to save his ass in no way whatsoever.
4. Sticking? Er, no. I don't give a fuck about Ottofar. What I do give a fuck about, however, is that the three scum have voted him for the laziest reason ever ('ermahgard hers luhkin') merely so one of them won't get lynched.

Also, I love how you jumped off Ottofar bandwagon (on which you still jumped for no reason) the moment NQT lost a vote. Deeefinitely a behaviour of someone who wishes to see scum dead.

[Jim Groovester]

Votecount:

Dariush	- 0 -
IronyOwl	- 1 -	griffinpup
griffinpup	- 0 -
Leafsnail	- 1 -	IronyOwl
Lenglon	- 0 -
notquitethere	- 2 -	Ottofar, Dariush
Okami No Rei	- 1 -	zombie urist
Ottofar	- 2 -	notquitethere, Leafsnail
Tiruin	- 2 -	Toaster, Vector
Toaster	- 1 -	Tiruin
ToonyMan	- 0 -
Vector	- 2 -	ToonyMan, Lenglon
zombie urist	- 1 -	Okami No Rei
-
Not Voting	- 0 -
No Lynch	- 0 -
-
Extend	- 2 -	Lenglon, IronyOwl
Oppose Extend	- 1 -	notquitethere
Shorten	- 0 -

The Day will end in 11 hours, on the 14th of August, 8PM GMT.

4 votes required to Extend, with 2 votes cast and 1 vote opposed. 7 votes required to Shorten. 1 Extend left for the Day.


The rules as listed in the OP do not clarify whether extensions can be opposed, so I await a higher ruling.

I will say, to be really sure that extension goes through, three more votes for extend are required.

[notquitethere]

Dariush, I'll take your repeated silence as an admittance of witchdom, Not only have you ignored my previous posts directed at you, you completely misrepresent my case on your scumbuddy Ottofar. I am not voting him for lurking. You'd only think that if you'd omitted to read almost everything I've posted. I have disputed every element of the 'case' you have against me and as you are completely incapable of responding you have resorted to ignoring, perhaps safe in the knowledge that you'll NK me anyway. Either you're a witch or you're playing out your bizzare personal vendetta against me.

Jim
Consider it a Shorten if it functionally achieves the same thing.

[lordnincompoop]

Oppose extends are allowed.

[Tiruin]

Tiruin— if you become lynch target will you full claim? Can you tell us anything more before resorting to that that will help us trust you? Is your task related to the 'errand' you're running for your father?

No, I won't full claim. I have told as much as I am comfortable with regarding everything--it is in your (plural) discernment to trust or not to trust.

...And yes I'm running this errand for my father. Why do you ask?

The first time I read this, and until now, I'm still confused. Why the first question?

..Oh wait, re-reading it up, the gist of your message has the anti-third-party note again, huh.

Irony Owl— I'm voting Ottofar because he has parked a vote on a single player for the entire game and has been completely incapable of justifying his vote, with his reasons constantly shifting. His latest reasons is that he believes me to be a third-party, yet his vote has remained on me even after Tiruin has explictly claimed third-party. Dariush is also acting similarly with the added bonus of the fact that unlike Ottofar who responds but gives no reasonable justifications, Dariush doesn't even respond. The chances of them both being clueless townies approaches zero.

What do you think of Deathsword's play? Also can you answer this please:

Is your wincon to kill all witches?

Oppose extension: Ottofar's play has repeatedly confirmed him as anti-town, while Tiruin has claimed benevolent 3rd party without giving compelling reasons why we should believe her. If there's a tie at day's end, I'll be around to break it.

And why should you believe me? 'Compelling' in any case is one proven by exacts; tangible evidence which I cannot procure myself.

Could you expound on your reasoning including what you think regarding all those at 2 votes-Jim's list? It seems you're only focused on two people--the former (which in the first place should be attributed to bad time organization IRL..but it's too common now) which I'd like to know your reasons, and the latter being third party.

[notquitethere]

Tiruin

No, I won't full claim. I have told as much as I am comfortable with regarding everything--it is in your (plural) discernment to trust or not to trust.

...And yes I'm running this errand for my father. Why do you ask?

The first time I read this, and until now, I'm still confused. Why the first question?

So you're saying that even in the hour before a certain lynch you wouldn't claim. Why not? What's to lose? The OP mentions the possibility of magic keywords; how do you feel about magic? Also, specifically, is your wincon the errand for your father? Has he asked you to kill someone? The way you're acting now, you're not giving the town much reason not to lynch you.

..Oh wait, re-reading it up, the gist of your message has the anti-third-party note again, huh.

And why should you believe me? 'Compelling' in any case is one proven by exacts; tangible evidence which I cannot procure myself.

Could you expound on your reasoning including what you think regarding all those at 2 votes-Jim's list? It seems you're only focused on two people--the former (which in the first place should be attributed to bad time organization IRL..but it's too common now) which I'd like to know your reasons, and the latter being third party.

I'm not taking an automatic hardline against third-parties but the burden of proof is on you to prove your benevolence. I'm voting Ottofar because he has been completely and utterly unable to defend his case, especially in the light of new information. His vote reeks of lazy scumplay. If I had two votes I'd also be lynching Dariush for doing the same thing and ignoring me completely (refusal to engage is a scum trait par excellence). That's not bad organization: they're posting, they're just incapable of responding. Contrast with Toaster, who actually made an effort to defend his position.

[Tiruin]

Tiruin

No, I won't full claim. I have told as much as I am comfortable with regarding everything--it is in your (plural) discernment to trust or not to trust.

...And yes I'm running this errand for my father. Why do you ask?

The first time I read this, and until now, I'm still confused. Why the first question?

So you're saying that even in the hour before a certain lynch you wouldn't claim. Why not? What's to lose? The OP mentions the possibility of magic keywords; how do you feel about magic? Also, specifically, is your wincon the errand for your father? Has he asked you to kill someone? The way you're acting now, you're not giving the town much reason not to lynch you.

...My cynical side believes you're just setting this up for a vote.

Or I'm really looking at that paragraph with a flat face. Why would a father ask his daughter to kill people, exactly? Straightly, no. I am in no way going to, or believing my character will, kill. Ever. Searching for people yes. Protecting people, yes. Ensuring they survive, yes. My wincon is not my errand for my father [or..it can be, metaphorically.. It's my mother's advice which does, and that's what I omit]. Why do you ask about this errand?

I already told you why I'm not giving extra information and you're prodding me for more when I can't even say myself 100% about that matter myself. Trust me on this, if I was to have such and such like this which would benefit the town, I'd say it, but this is too early to tell.

Besides that: I've two votes on me and their crux is me being a third-party. Why did I claim in the first place? Oh no, how foolish. Details on why and the cause? Non-existant.

But really, if that's the cause of me being lynched..well, me being upset shall forever be placed IC on stupid peasants who'd rather policy vote than not and use the slimy case of metaknowledge to get a lynch in favor. Purely in metaknowledge.

The way you're acting now, you're not giving the town much reason not to lynch you.

And I don't have to. People's opinions and viewpoints differ, and by the 'you're not giving much reason' reflects your own, in a subtle manner. 'Much reason' is as much relative as how you see me in correlation to what is defined as scummy.

You people will have to decide a case on the matter. I cannot say anything else, sir. I've already given my case, pointed my posts. If they'll lynch me based on the illogical notion of metaknowledge..well, that's just disgusting, really. It's like playing the mod's game and getting puzzles from that point. If the lynch goes because 'O NO U OMIT INFO', well try to think DEEPER than the superficial idea of 'why does she want to deny us information? She's a third-party. The only answer would be malevolence D:<' for while I do understand that concept, I've given enough already on that matter. Even more, for those with astute eyes.

Now don't take me wrong, that is an understandable (albeit a poor) way to discuss and debate matters such as these, but I've looked back into those mafias and I could say that other methods of reasoning could readily take the place on this notion and it would all be the better.

Unless you like being lazy and making it a policy in LNCP's games.

Why not? What's to lose?

Everything; no, not for me. Many others will lose more than what I've to lose because if I give out the information I'm omitting, it's like giving the piece of cake you have to the cake they have. Which is significantly bigger than your sugary slice. The reason I'm omitting this is purely because it would give the enemy an advantage (alright, it would give everyone information, but information which can be manipulated by malevolent factions.)

Ugh.

What are you leaning on NQT? You give the idea of me being a benevolent third party, then put that idea to the test and compare it with what I've to give as a summary. I have already done that. See the case to Irony? See my case on Toaster?

What exactly are you looking for.

[Tiruin]

Now can you answer my questions, interrogator?

[Ottofar]

Ottofar— actually I've just realised something (perhaps the reason Leafsnail was so upset). Specifically, why does it matter whether I said kill or eliminate?

With this, you confirm your stupidity, or that you are not town. Probably both. Because the town has that as a wincon. Not kill, but eliminate. It is, most likely the same for everyone on town's side.

Irony Owl— I'm voting Ottofar because he has parked a vote on a single player for the entire game and has been completely incapable of justifying his vote, with his reasons constantly shifting.

Lies. I've been listing the reasons, they don't shift, they grow. The vote is perfectly justified. Word-twisiting will now be added.
Also, I do not think that Tiruin is harmful to the town. I'm voting you, because I believe you to be harmful to the town.

Oppose extension

Why would anyone oppose an extend? There's still discussion happening, why cut it short. No townie should oppose an extend.

Ottofar: Assuming nobody shifts their vote between now and day end, and you have an opportunity to shift your vote to Tiruin at the last minute to force a tie and save your skin, will you do it?

No. Not lynching is harmful to the town, especially on day 1.

Extend.

[Tiruin]

Extend.

Oh, and NQT, I've something for you.

PFP will address Vector and hypocritical Toaster later on and argh timezones.

(Just a quick post before I go to bed- anything outstanding I'll address on the morrow)

Lenglon, 'eliminate' and 'kill' are synonyms. What do to think lynching does to the witches? Once again Ottofar is making a complete non-point. Also, he says win-con-based scumhunting isn't fun, but that's not an argument against its effectiveness.

Explicitly 'kill'?

Somehow, you missed that.

Somehow.