Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Lenglon]

Ottofar: do you have an opinion on anyone that isn't NQT? do you have any questions about anything for anyone?

Lenglon: "Hello there!"

...So what's your take on Ottofar now, and if any nuances would be called into question, do you have any other suspicions on the huge list of players?

"Hiya!"
I'm seeing little change. The case he's pressing is by no means unique, and he isn't looking at anyone other than NQT for anything. I'm pretty sure this isn't a 1-scum game, no matter how certain someone is that their current target is scum I would expect them to be looking for the rest. In short, I still don't see scumhunting. I do agree with the points of his case, and his analysis of what NQT is doing, but I'm not by any means certain that acting that way makes him scum. I see it as a single minor scumtell, despite how many times he's shown it, and making entire cases out of it feels ridiculous to me.

now then, as for other players, Pup and Leafsnail are pretty null right now to me, I haven't seen them doing scummy stuff but they haven't been able to post as much as everyone else. unlike Ottofar, they've both been paying attention to their surroundings and looking for scum as best they can with the limits they're under, so I don't have any real issues with them... well, almost.
Leafsnail: why are you still voting pup? he cannot be pressured while he isn't here, and you can always switch back to voting him after he returns. is that a lynch vote or do you not have any other targets or suspicions? If it is a lynch vote, what is your case?

ONR bothers me some, his thought process makes sense to me and he feels quite townie, but ZU has a very good point about how he was backtracking earlier. In general I'm happy with him though.

Vector seems like frustrated town to me, although she's been accused of tunneling me I don't see it. and I've kinda been paying closer attention to her posts than most. She's been acting somewhat similar to how I often do, posting multiple times a day, each post small and often focused on a single subject, but over the course of the day questioning many and explaining complex thoughts clearly and honestly. I know she has issues with me, but I don't really have any with her.

Toaster...
Lenglon goes back and reviews Tiruin's case on Toaster
... That's actually a pretty darn good case, and I should have paid more attention to it when you made it. one moment...
Lenglon uses LurkerTracker to re-read all of Toaster's posts
Toaster: When I made my full flavor claim, I said that I was from Paris. do you think I am a third-party?
Toaster: I don't understand what made NQT's answer to your "are you a third-party" a deflection. could you please explain how that works when he said "I am not, as you say, a 'third party'"?
Toaster: If I ignore the third-party accusation from your post, then your case on NQT seems to be based entirely upon how he become upset when you continued to press him over his answer. Is this the entirety of your case?

Deathsword has been sticking to the shadows but, similar to Leaf and Pup, he has an excuse. I consider him more suspicious though because I remember him acting like this as scum. (BM XL, Toon Mafia VII). however he hasn't set me off the way he did in either of those games, so I'm unsure right now.

ZU, Toony, Dariush, and yourself are all null-lean-town to me. you're demonstrating awareness, thinking independently, asking questions, making cases, and so on.

did I miss anyone?

Tiruin:"So, what do you mean by confusing motivations anyway? If you know that you're motivated, then how do you not understand why? were you informed directly or did you have to think through how you'd react to what is happening here the way I did? Why not just explain the situation in full, and give us all a chance to understand the complexity? do you want to keep the information to yourself like Leafsnail is?"

[zombie urist]

NQT: I know this is going to sound crazy coming from someone who is already voting for Ottofar over pretty much the exact same reasons as you listed, but that's not a good case for why he is scum, it's merely a case for why he is a liability. You aren't pointing out anything he has done or said that is scummy, or an instance where he obviously should and could have done something and let the opportunity pass idly by. all Ottofar has to do to completely negate your case is a little basic scumhunting. I suspect that no matter what his alignment is, he's good enough at mafia to accomplish that. There's a reason I'm citing my vote on Ottofar as a pressure vote - as soon as he does enough to let me get a actual feel for what kind of person he is, my vote is going to shift to someone else.

So you admit your case is bad? That's not good. Also its getting kinda late for pressure votes.

...

Why did you devote an entire post defending NQT? (fakeedit: There's another post where you discuss Toaster's arguments against NQT)

Ottofar has made no contribution to this game.

That's a pretty strong statement.

Let's not be ignorant here. Women played a much larger role than you think, sir. Don't let the media get to you unless you do some research.
Also I've a history book stating such things as these but can't link it

This is pretty cool.

You got me, I have no idea how to respond to your line of questioning anymore.  If you have an answer you were looking for you can tell me.
I was assuming my character didn't have any knowledge of any misfortune striking his town (preposterous even), if I ctrl+f my role PM for the words "plague", "famine", "drought", and "miscarriage" I get zero hits.  So yes, he may know and I was just being an idiot.  This is the only thing I can think of.
This post from Tiruin responding to a Lenglon inquire is interesting.  Lenglon's character seems to have a motivation for witch-hunting, Tiruin is purposely withholding because it's "confusing", and my character does not want to witch-hunt (not that I'm going to listen to him).
You also accuse NQT and Dariush here, but one of your stated reasons for NQT is that they're "female".  I am not voting Vector because their character is female, but because I don't believe their intentions are sincere, Mr. Old-Clothes Salesman.
As a question towards you, how do you see Ottofar right now?

"I wish for a peaceful place, and do not want witch-trials ravaging the town.  This is purely for the good of the people."

What is "purely for the good of the people?"
a) A peaceful place
b) Witch Trials
c) Other
=====
My reason for NQT is being female and a carpenter, which I did not believe existed in this time period.
Ottofar is mostly null to slightly town. It would be nice if he posted more.

[Lenglon]

-snip-

So you admit your case is bad? That's not good. Also its getting kinda late for pressure votes.

I agree, it's rather late for a vote such as mine. I should have enough content by this point that it wouldn't be necessary.

I don't.

Ottofar might as well not be here, so I intend to see to it that either he makes his presence worth something, or that he stops being here. and unlike NQT's situation, where he needs Ottofar lynched or he's going to die, either result is perfectly fine with me.

I figured I'd warn NQT of this discrepency. If he wants to stick with it then I'm perfectly happy with it, but NQT needs to be aware that he needs to keep looking. What NQT has found thus far is not enough to save his skin.

[Vector]

My reason for NQT is being female and a carpenter, which I did not believe existed in this time period.

And now, being corrected, you're... leaving your vote there?

[Teneb]

unvote

Request replacement.

I'm sorry, but I just can't seem to muster the will to play this game properly.

[Lenglon]

...
annnnnnd despite me asking LNCP what Toonyman's character looks like, what  Jacques de Crussol looks like, and what the viscount looks like, I was unable to get an answer to any of those queries.
However, I did get my own description when I asked for it.

Toonyman: I full-flavor-claimed earlier, so me going ahead and adding my description to the lot seems lower-risk than having someone else do so. Do you think I should claim my description now that I have it?

Tiruin: same question.

[zombie urist]

My reason for NQT is being female and a carpenter, which I did not believe existed in this time period.

And now, being corrected, you're... leaving your vote there?

I wasn't voting NQT in the first place and the other points still stand. The flavor detail was only a minor part in my read on him anyways.

[Tiruin]

ZU

...

Why did you devote an entire post defending NQT? (fakeedit: There's another post where you discuss Toaster's arguments against NQT)

..Defending? I was poking at Ottofar's statements as they contradicted what I'm seeing.

What do you see in NQT's posts anyway?

My reason for NQT is being female and a carpenter, which I did not believe existed in this time period.

Yeah? What is this time period, then?

Tiruin darkly mumbles about sexist ignorant people.

Do you have proof about that, by the way?

Lenglon

Toonyman: I full-flavor-claimed earlier, so me going ahead and adding my description to the lot seems lower-risk than having someone else do so. Do you think I should claim my description now that I have it?

Tiruin: same question.

...Lower-risk? Claim description?

..I think you lost me there. Where is lower-risk pertaining to? What use are they?

...Why ask me?

But good idea, I'm curious how I look like in LNCP's eyes.

Tiruin:"So, what do you mean by confusing motivations anyway? If you know that you're motivated, then how do you not understand why? were you informed directly or did you have to think through how you'd react to what is happening here the way I did? Why not just explain the situation in full, and give us all a chance to understand the complexity? do you want to keep the information to yourself like Leafsnail is?"

Tiruin: I was wondering if everyone here had some form of motivation to be enthusiastic in the witch hunt, similar to my own. is that the case?

Oh you don't know how much I loathed RL stuff because of the delays I get to post in Mafia >_>

But..err, I believe it varies from person to person. Motivation is hardly sensed over the internet, but a common observation states that it usually reflects in how the person words their post, the context of where they're coming from, and how they proceed against or towards a conclusion.

...Or were you asking on flavor? I've my own motivation, in that manner, but I'm withholding it for now because it's quite...confusing if I said it, and I'm trying to piece it together myself. But I'm quite sure I'm pretty enthusiastic. Enthusiastic to get these bloody plagues and diseases and everything hurting the people all backed up and shooed away, that is.

What I expect are some minor deviations for town, stuff regarding special/unique stuff for third-parties (or some kind of malevolent intent for SKs, and stuff about 'I just want to get out' for survivors--which would be weird given the premise of 'Lockdown' by the papal forces and for the Witches to..kill or outnumber townies and third-party alignments against them.)

However I'm pretty sure that given the context of a Viscount being attacked, the whole city under a huge force of men, and points on witches numbering that few with the populace being corralled like animals (submission via torture..burning by the stake..), that there are other threats than witches out there.

"..Well, while my motivation is benevolent, it isn't in directly culling the witches from this town (...I'm implying it is such though, given my flavor context) but..err, this is where I'm confused. It's not confusion as in 'What is this and what shall I do', but confusion along the way of what others would do, per se.

"..Yes I know that sounds confusing, but what I do know is that, from the earliest visit here, that there are other forces than witches around.

"No, I've no idea whom or who, but that there is. I'm open to information and not withholding it like Leafsnail, but that I just can't get it is the point in this matter."

[Lenglon]

lower risk meaning lower risk of giving the scum information they can use. Since I've already full-flavor-claimed, if they need flavor-information from me for them to be fully effective then they probably already have what they need from me.

[Tiruin]

...I lost you there.

You'd claim how you look to give scum less information they can use?

...I'm really confused on that notion. How is knowing others' flavor effective, in that case?

[Dariush]

Dariush: Upon reviewing your linked posts, it looks like they all boil down too: "he is growing desperate and flailing as he becomes the main lynch target, ergo scum." that's not many minor scumtells Dar, that's one minor scumtell done repeatedly. I agree fully that he's been doing exactly that, but I find it odd that you're basing your entire case on it.

No they don't boil down 'too' that. They only read like that if you didn't bother opening any of the links I provided and only read what I added in plain text. Besides, using your own arguments - if he doesn't do anything useful, why keep him alive? (I actually think he's scum, but he ought to be lynched even if I discard common sense and the necessity to lynch scum for a bit and use your twisted logic)

I agree, it's rather late for a vote such as mine. I should have enough content by this point that it wouldn't be necessary.

I don't.

Do you really, honestly think that by openly admitting that you're being a sack of uselessness that only votes the easiest targets possible, whose defining characteristic (lurking) doesn't even correlate with being scum, we'll just go 'Oh, okay, you admitted that, so carry on, we won't suspect or lynch you'? I mean, really. Your every post breaches new borders of naivety. (note that this won't prevent me from voting you either)

[Lenglon]

Dariush, you're twisting words again. stop that. for example that last quote, where you carefully cut off the last part of the statement to make it look like I was calling my own actions weak instead of Ottofar's. Keep your accusations in context if you want to be taken seriously.

now then, lets take the links and see what you're saying then:

Link 1: includes Dariush's vote shifting to NQT, so these were the final deciding factors.
1) lazy scumhunting - context shows that NQT is trying to get the people with scattered votes to focus on one person that isn't NQT. - meaning NQT is panicking (but your accusation is that he isn't scumhunting, so I'll count this as both)
2) OMGUS - really? you are counting an OMGUS? ok.
Link 2: timestamp shows that this was before link 1
3) "Soooo first you spewed a bunch of WIFOM about fakeclaims and now you're shamelessly blackmailing the town, while continuing to desperately paint yourself as town since the beginning and annoy everyone with your roleplaying. You're such a worthless shitstain, NQT." - looks like NQT is panicing.
Unlinked: I'm willing to assume that these would be timestamped after your vote, meaning they weren't the deciding factor, but they do still count as part of your case.
4) "desperately trying to shift the attention from himself and onto lurkers without actually presenting any even half-valid arguments" - NQT is panicking
5) "since accusing lurkers requires zero effort" - NQT isn't scumhunting.
6) "painting the lurkers as guaranteed scum, thus forgoing any scumhunting at all" - NQT isn't scumhunting

ok, so it boils down to: NQT is panicking, isn't scumhunting, and made an OMGUS vote. (and it seems pretty clear to me the the first one of those three is what triggered the second and third, hence why I counted it as just the one tell)

all three of those are simple facts, and completely true. now then, knowing what you know of NQT, do those make him scum? I would have expected different behavior from scum-NQT than this, does this behavior match up with scum-NQT to you? or does it match up with panicked-and-frustrated-but-not-scum-NQT's behavior Mr. Person-who-has-played-with-NQT-several-times-and-doesn't-respect-his-playstyle-and-skill-level?

I agree, NQT needs to get back to proper scumhunting. However, unlike Ottofar, he previous was doing a decent job at it, and he has provided an ample amount of material to get a read of him from. I'm far more willing to give someone who was actively hunting earlier a chance to get started again than someone who has never been hunting in the first place.

[Lenglon]

Tiruin, I think you've answered my question with a "no, don't claim your description" based on your confusion as to why someone would choose to do it in the first place. is this correct?
Seriously, you're twisting around my question to you and asking me to tell you my answer and reasoning without telling me your own.

[Tiruin]

Searchword: Don't claim.
> No exact result or my answering being a 'no, don't claim your description'.

...Because I can't be your sole choice for doing that. It's solely your choice for doing that >__>

My memory's fuzzy from personal stuff IRL, but what I recall my answer is on that note (please quote next time thanks) is

...I lost you there.

You'd claim how you look to give scum less information they can use?

...I'm really confused on that notion. How is knowing others' flavor effective, in that case?

...And I'm twisting your question? Um.

Where did I do

asking me to tell you my answer and reasoning without telling me your own.

?

[Lenglon]

"It's in your last two posts silly!"
you've been asking me questions poking at the reason I would consider such an action an option. the problem is, answering such questions would be the same as telling you what I think the answer to my own question would be. of course it's my choice, and you're going to see what I decide on, but I want to hear your answer, and why your answer, first.