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[Vector]

I've been pressing you because I think you're scum of some sort.  Your hunting is apologetic and barely-there.

Since last way I felt like this you were scum, I'm pretty sure that you're scum this time, too, and you haven't made a single post that gave me any other impression.

[notquitethere]

Tiruin

"Alright, how is sharing one's identity even going to help here? Or possibly track who is a witch or not? If these things were such, then the inquisition would be easily finding them by now. Unless it is the inquisition, which I doubt[
[...]
Now, earlier I said I was suspicious about the claims, aye? Here's my suspicion. While this does avert the notion of people not knowing each other (and on the notion of being a common point given the idea that scum only know alignment difference and all that), this is strange in itself in asking the name and profession and connecting it with directly finding witches.

What would you hope to gain other than knowing our name and probable profession?

"Monseiur Doulze, we are aiding ze Inquisition. Zey are from out of town. Ze first thing we should do is explain to zem (and by extension, each other) who we are."

[Tiruin, if and when you read the thread you'll see that I've already explained several times why this information is imporant for the town. Rest assured, I'll explain again. The minutiae of the setting are integral to this set up. The chief point of this game is that each player embodies a unique and distinct role. Town ought to tell the truth about their name and profession, as if they are found to be lying about this simple information, then we have grounds for suspicion. The profession and name isn't useful enough to be helpful for witches but can (and hopefully will) be used to catch liars out. These particular kind of lies can be caught out through comparing end and beginning of day messages and the results of town-aligned player's night actions. I expect you've read the OP? So really you should know that this kind of play-style (paying attention to setting details, making inferences etc.) is encouraged.]

Toaster

In any case, I'm voting you because after I threw a question pertaining to "not from town = anti town" at you, you then deflected attention away from yourself.  Before I could even respond you throw it right back at me.  Basically, you flipped out over my simple question.  You then threaten me with said ridiculous statement, which is just laughable.

[No, I answered your question and followed up by indicating that if your logic was not from town = anti town" then you yourself would be out-of-town and so your continued vote made absolutely no sense. I fail to see how this is a lynchable offence. You've voted for me in the RVS and have kept your vote parked there since-- a typical scum manoeuvre.  You're fabricating the flimsiest of pretexts to get away from doing something productive with your vote. If you're town then you need to step up your game; if your not, then laugh all you like: you're rumbled.

What's your view on Zombie Urist?]

Lenglon

NQT: you have been more active here than you were in the revolution, and greatly changed your style and attitude, why?

[With Revolution, the game was in the bag and as a spy I wasn't really that bothered in making the effort to uncover spies. Here though I'm engaged with the game, I want to root out the witches and I know I have to pay attention if we have a hope of winning this thing.

I note that your vote (like mine) isn't going to get our target lynched at the moment. I'm voting Toaster because he has lazily kept his RVS vote on the prime lynch candidate without a convincing reason; why should we be voting Ottofar?]

Leafsnail
[Why is griffinpup the scummiest player right now?]

Vector
[Why is Lenglon the scummiest player right now?]

griffinpup
[Why is Deathsword the scummiest player right now?]

Zombie Urist
[Why is Okami No Rei the scummiest player right now?]

[Dariush]

Leafsnail
[Why is griffinpup the scummiest player right now?]

Vector
[Why is Lenglon the scummiest player right now?]

griffinpup
[Why is Deathsword the scummiest player right now?]

Zombie Urist
[Why is Okami No Rei the scummiest player right now?]

...Seriously? SERIOUSLY? Okay, this is officially the absolutely laziest attempt at imitating scumhunting I've ever seen here.

Toaster

Bahahaha.  Oh, NQT, you crack me up.

[You have the gall to accuse me of deflecting and then this is your response to my follow up? If you're going to keep your vote parked then make a real argument as to why I am a witch.]

And an OMGUS as the icing on the cake.

Dariush:  What makes ZU scummier than NQT in your mind?

Nothing anymore. NQT.

Lenglon:

Vector: re-read done, I'm tired, and I don't see enough to form a case on anyone, although I still dislike Ottofar the most. you've been pressing me since the very first post of the game, why? It feels like you're trying to manipulate me for some kind of agenda, but I haven't identified what that agenda is.

So basically you admit to not having any suspicions, and the reason for you current vote is that you dislike your target. Riiiight.

Toony: your claim is very distinctive, are you a third-party?

What purpose does this question serve? Do you really expect him to claim third party?

Vector, are you aware that there are people other than Lenglon in here?

[notquitethere]

...Seriously? SERIOUSLY? Okay, this is officially the absolutely laziest attempt at imitating scumhunting I've ever seen here.

And an OMGUS as the icing on the cake.

Nothing anymore. NQT.

[Dariush, you wouldn't know scumhunting if it hit you in the face. We were almost by day's end if the extension hadn't passed, these people had votes that weren't lynching votes. We need to know whether people's cases make a lick of sense or whether they're coasting. How is questioning people's cases a lazy imitation of scumhunting, Mr Smoke & Mirrors? Also, here you go again throwing around mafia jargon like it's going out of fashion. Since when is voting someone for a hypocritical vote an 'OMGUS'? In case you didn't know, there are sometimes legitimate reasons to vote for someone who has also voted for you. Make a real case.]

[Toaster]

NQT:

Toaster

In any case, I'm voting you because after I threw a question pertaining to "not from town = anti town" at you, you then deflected attention away from yourself.  Before I could even respond you throw it right back at me.  Basically, you flipped out over my simple question.  You then threaten me with said ridiculous statement, which is just laughable.

[No, I answered your question and followed up by indicating that if your logic was not from town = anti town" then you yourself would be out-of-town and so your continued vote made absolutely no sense. I fail to see how this is a lynchable offence. You've voted for me in the RVS and have kept your vote parked there since-- a typical scum manoeuvre.  You're fabricating the flimsiest of pretexts to get away from doing something productive with your vote. If you're town then you need to step up your game; if your not, then laugh all you like: you're rumbled.

What's your view on Zombie Urist?]

The answering of the question wasn't the point- it was the fact you pointed fingers elsewhere on the out-of-town issue, and how it got you so riled up.  Also, the vote wasn't and has never been a random vote- it was specifically directed at you on the grounds of something you said.  It got a scummy reaction, so it stuck.  Finally, just because you call the vote flimsy doesn't actually make it so.

As far as ZU, I don't really see his case on Okami.  But it does cause me to wonder one other thing...


Zombie Urist:  Other than Okami, who is scummy and why?


Dariush:

Toaster

Bahahaha.  Oh, NQT, you crack me up.

[You have the gall to accuse me of deflecting and then this is your response to my follow up? If you're going to keep your vote parked then make a real argument as to why I am a witch.]

And an OMGUS as the icing on the cake.

Dariush:  What makes ZU scummier than NQT in your mind?

Nothing anymore. NQT.

You really think OMGUS is a good scum tell any more?  I thought that one was out of favor for good.

So what did make ZU scummier than NQT?


Vector:  What are your reads of ToonyMan and Tiruin?

[Teneb]

Deathsword:

For the second question, I believe Toaster's answer should suffice. But flavour tends to be important in LNCP games in general.

How would you react to someone who refused to flavor claim when pressed?

I'd grow somewhat suspicious of them, but the action in and of itself is not a guarantee of scuminess.

Dariush, Deathsword, Zombie Urist
"I could not help but notice zat you are all in the clothes trade. Do any of you work closely together? Also, are any of you new to Uzès?"

I'm from the city and I do not work with any of the others mentioned. Also, please drop the fake accent.

So, Deathsword, you have posted three times since this game started.  Your first post was to ask three RVS questions, one of which is apparently a joke.  Your second and third are merely answering RVS questions.

Why did you only ask two REAL RVS questions? 
What is your thorough opinion on RVS as a whole?
Why haven't you built a semblance of a case or voted yet?

I'll answer the first two question in one go: the point of RVS is to get the game going. The questions are asked with that intent. It does not matter if they are serious or not, if there is one or ten. What matters is getting the game going.

As for your other question, maybe because I was fucking busy. How can that fact be so hard to accept?

Deathsword

Tiruin, if you were in the scum team and part of your team claimed scum, would you do the same?

...Why should I, in the first place? (No.) Was this context derived from that one Mafia we both played a while ago? Why ask this type of question here?

There have been a few mafia mass-claims recently, and I am trying to figure out what would scum gain from doing that (other than a quick lynch).

DeathSword:

I will be extremely busy today and will only un-busy tomorrow afternoon. There won't be any trouble posting from that point.

Wait what?
First of all, you completely avoid my questions.  You do claim to be busy though, so this isn't scummy by itself.
But second, you are going to be gone for the rest of what might very well be day one and you didn't throw out an extend!?  Why not?    You still don't have a semblance of a case yet.  Were you comfortable with the current lynch target at the time of writing this or were you planning on getting back before the deadline with enough time to change something?

I was busy, busy enough that I did not have the time or mindset to sit down, search the thread for questions and answer them. I did not look at who was about to be lynched, or when the day ended. Because, let me say this again, busy. I had two tests today and I had to study for them. You seem incapable of grasping that someone might be too busy to post more than a single line of text.

Actual questions and case, if any, in my next post later this day.

[Lenglon]

I note that your vote (like mine) isn't going to get our target lynched at the moment. I'm voting Toaster because he has lazily kept his RVS vote on the prime lynch candidate without a convincing reason; why should we be voting Ottofar?]

right now it's a pressure vote, it'll become a lynch vote if he doesn't shape up and provide some more content though. When the time comes I'll present a lynch case, right now is not that time. I'm not voting for a prime lynch canidate because I don't find any of the lynch cases presented thus far compelling.

Lenglon:

Vector: re-read done, I'm tired, and I don't see enough to form a case on anyone, although I still dislike Ottofar the most. you've been pressing me since the very first post of the game, why? It feels like you're trying to manipulate me for some kind of agenda, but I haven't identified what that agenda is.

So basically you admit to not having any suspicions, and the reason for you current vote is that you dislike your target. Riiiight.

suspicions don't equal cases. I don't have cases, I do have suspicions. the reason for my current vote is that Ottofar hasn't provided enough content for me to get any feel for what kind of person he is.

Toony: your claim is very distinctive, are you a third-party?

What purpose does this question serve? Do you really expect him to claim third party?

probably not, but I see no reason not to ask. I'm actively inviting him to claim it if he is third-party, and I figure him claiming now, when there's little to no pressure, and when simply and directly asked about it, would be about as sympathetic of a time as he could reasonably ask for.

[ToonyMan]

Unvote Zombie Urist.  I'm feeling a bit muddled.

*ToonyMan shrugs greatly and crosses his arms, contemplating.*


@Okami:

On the flipside, by offering up NQT as a sacrificial lamb (who may happen to have the least significant flavour), they not only provide a reasonable smokescreen for not revealing their own flavour, they also encourage the rest of the town to claim, giving them more information.  (I'd like to note here that scum had a whole night to discuss their opening play, so I wouldn't put any gambits past them.)

This struck me as a key point of this game.  I feel if we were able to gleam NQT's alignment somehow it would be pivotal in our scum-hunting since people's reactions to him have been quite extreme.  Since he clearly came into this game at a full sprint with his opening post.  I wouldn't want to lynch him just to give a litmus test and I don't find him lynch-worthy right now.

Anyway, now that NQT's responded to the question, I'd say he's telling the truth.  "I didn't consider it." is a weak, yet honest, excuse, and I can't really do anything more with it than admonish him for not thinking before acting.

I suppose, if he's town.


@Tiruin:

Tiruin:

NQT

"Bonjour everyone! My name is Katherine Boulengier and I am a journeyman carpenter, new to this ville. Alors! It is most effroyable to be quarantined like so, and our best hope is to find zese mauvais witches as rapidly as possible. To facilitate zis, I suggest we all share our names and professions."

"Alright, how is sharing one's identity even going to help here? Or possibly track who is a witch or not? If these things were such, then the inquisition would be easily finding them by now. Unless it is the inquisition, which I doubt.
"Still. My name is Gillette Doulze, an aid to my father's inn. I am not from this town, but on errands from my father and sternly advised by my mother. Local marketplace groceries and such. This seems to be a very strange point you're making. Meaning that you didn't continue on this point you made from earlier."
Now, earlier I said I was suspicious about the claims, aye? Here's my suspicion. While this does avert the notion of people not knowing each other (and on the notion of being a common point given the idea that scum only know alignment difference and all that), this is strange in itself in asking the name and profession and connecting it with directly finding witches.
What would you hope to gain other than knowing our name and probable profession?

I find it odd that you vote NQT for asking for claims then immediately proceed to claiming yourself anyway.  Why is asking for it scummy when you're willing to do it anyway?

Toaster is right here, you did what Okami did a few days ago and it still bothers me to contradict yourself like that.  I think in Okami's case he said soft-claiming is the right way to go (as a bunch of people have agreed, like Dariush and Toaster and me), but NQT's action to claim and then tell everybody else that they should claim was a bit forceful and leads to suspicion.


@Lenglon:

Toony: your claim is very distinctive, are you a third-party?

No.


@Vector:
You are active-lurking and are not contributing to the game.

Your posts in the last two days:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm willing to let the series of people attacking each other for attacking each other (see: NQT, ONR, ZU, Leafsnail, Dariush, Toonyman, and as of your last post, you) resolve itself

Why on earth do you think I'm attacking you for attacking me?

Vector: what possible conclusions are you drawing from the similarity of Pup's name and a character in a book by H.G. Wells?

It's one of those Significant Names.  It's like having the last name "Hitler"; usually it means something.  I thought I'd toss it out there just in case.

also, did your flavor specifically name typhoid or did it describe the symptoms and you figured out which disease it was?

It specifically named typhoid.

Lenglon

Oh, sorry, I thought you would have read the wiki link you sent me.  Doctor Moreau was a butcher of a scientist (a vivisectionist, to be specific) who experimented with giving animals human intelligence.  That sort of role sounds like it would be appropriate for this game.

Why on earth do you think I'm attacking you for attacking me?

I don't, I think you're attacking Dariush for attacking ZU for attacking ONR for attacking NQT. (assuming i haven't mixed up someone in that paranoia dodecahedron.)

So... you think that I'm chainsawing, basically.
Otherwise your claim goes to "I decided to pay attention to those who haven't left RVS left because what they're doing might be more interesting."  Either way, this is absurd.

Vector: why would your flavor specifically name typhoid when mine simply says "the plague" when it plays a major role in my past?

Gee Lenglon, I don't know.  Maybe your character is less educated than mine.

Lenglon

Oh, right.  Maybe all three have the same master, then.

Lenglon

Lenglon, at this point you really seem deliberately obtuse.

Lenglon

I dunno, some kind of SK or something.  In any case the bloke was dead rotten.
What are you learning from pressing me?

Lenglon

...Please distinguish between 'you' and 'your character' in the future, especially since you're not Lenglon.

Good point.  I'll keep it in mind.

Vector

My husband died of typhoid.  Everyone knows that witches are responsible for the foul diseases.
I am town in alignment, but I'm not from here originally; I've been in for about a year.  I don't think that the "born-and-raised" distinction is meaningful, though there may be other, similar flavortext clues.
Wait, was there a carpenter here?  I may have apprenticed my sons to you.

"On what grounds do you dismiss the distinction, Madame? It seems to me zat the witches would most likely have been here a long time given the nature of the problem. It's potentially useful information."

Pfah, what I meant to say was "it seems unlikely that out of town => scum like previously."  That was obviously not what I said.

Accepting information and correcting themselves.

No.  I've just got a prolific oven.
Seriously, why are you looking into me?  None of your comments have been behaviorally based.  They're all about little flavortext things, like you've got no point of view on what I'm actually doing.  You've voted me twice and asked a bunch of questions, and pretty much tried to pass this off as your right to activelurk.  You haven't even pressed your supposed targets, scumbucket.  Not even "hey, come here and play or I'll lynch you."  You're just sitting here.

Lenglon

Extend.

Extend.

I've been pressing you because I think you're scum of some sort.  Your hunting is apologetic and barely-there.
Since last way I felt like this you were scum, I'm pretty sure that you're scum this time, too, and you haven't made a single post that gave me any other impression.

Lenglon, also criticizing Lenglon's scum-hunting which I have to say, is probably better than what you've been doing lately.

I'll echo Toaster a bit here, but who do you think are scum besides Lenglon?

[ToonyMan]

LNCP is also clearly not answering my Leafsnail question.  Even though I would think a person's appearance would be common knowledge to everybody in the room, heh...

[Vector]

Your argument is that I'm active-lurking because I'm attacking Lenglon, my main suspect out of the various people whom I initially questioned?  Are you serious?  Where is the lack of contribution?

I'm criticizing Lenglon's scum-hunting because Lenglon has been waffly, passive, demonstrating zero analysis in her posts, and playing "ooh, little old me?" games.  She was advertised to me as an expert scum-hunter and I'm not going to let her get away with this twice.  I don't give a fuck what you think of my skills--Lenglon is scum, and if you've got anything more specific than "Lenglon is playing better than you" then bring it out in full and make a case.  Right now it just looks like you're white-knighting.  I'll make a full case this evening but at the moment I have more important things to do.

Also...

Wait, was there a carpenter here?  I may have apprenticed my sons to you.

NQT claimed journeyman carpenter, but "a journeyman could not employ others." I'm assuming "employ" also extends to apprenticeships since its not explicitly stated.

Oh, right.  Maybe all three have the same master, then.

Why is this listed under "Lenglon" in your list?  If you're going to chainsaw, at least get it right.  I realize this is only one point, but on the other hand it demonstrates that you were writing your case on autopilot.


List of suspects... Lenglon.

Ottofar, Deathsword and Zombie Urist are on my watchlist but they can wait for now.  Ottofar is the one I'm most worried about.  Something feels genuinely off about him.

Toony and Dariush feel a bit strange, especially Toony's defense of Lenglon and the general tone of his posts, but I'm willing to let it pass for now--I think that ToonyMan's grown up a lot since last we played together, which would explain a different sort of feeling from him.

I'm not sure about Tiruin, but she's usually way more apologetic for other people's behavior and into buddying as town, which makes me think that something's up.

[Lenglon]

um, Tiruin has been very busy with RL issues for the past couple weeks. I wouldn't read too much into her not being as active as normal. this isn't the only game I play that she's in, and she's been sporadic in all of them for quite a while now.

and Vector, I look forward to your case, and I guess I'll shift to handling your posts from a combative stance instead of a casual one if that's what you want.

Vector: I am not an expert scum-hunter, and I don't recall claiming to be such. where was I advertized like that?

Lenglon

NQT: you have been more active here than you were in the revolution, and greatly changed your style and attitude, why?

[With Revolution, the game was in the bag and as a spy I wasn't really that bothered in making the effort to uncover spies. Here though I'm engaged with the game, I want to root out the witches and I know I have to pay attention if we have a hope of winning this thing.

NQT: your explanation doesn't match up with what I remember. In the revolution, your last game, and one in which you were scum, you made very minimalistic posts, and generally was very reactive and not very proactive. During that game I called you out on this, and it was a key aspect of why I could identify that you were scum, and a key part of how I identified one of your scumbuddies. Your actions and posting style this game seem strongly like a counter-reaction to what happened there, and I find it odd that your explanation of this could be summed up as "I always act like this as town." As town I would have expected some kind of proper explanation, and quite likely a reference to what happened there. As scum your goal is to make yourself look as townie as possible, and that being the case, an explanation where you call your own actions a towntell benefits you. do you have an explanation for what I'm seeing here?

Ottofar: are you here or not?

[Vector]

Good idea.

I can't remember all the specific names, but one of them was Shinigami-King (who I seem to remember rating you highly to the point of thinking you were more valuable to the town than the IC), and I remember hearing things from some of the older subforum players, too.

[Okami No Rei]

Lenglon

ONR: you said that you don't know ZU or GriffPup because you haven't played with them, and as a result questioned them with the goal of figuring out how they think. why aren't you questioning me? do you understand how I think?

No, I don't understand how you think.  However, unlike zombie urist and griffinpup, you've been posting prolifically, offering ample material for investigation.  Material that it now seems I must review in light of Vector's claim.

Could you please point me to one or two recent games you've played as town?  I'd like to see some of this expert scumhunting for myself.

Vector
This is a rather serious accusation, which puts all of Lenglon's play thus far in an entirely new light.  Please provide more evidence than "I remember hearing things".

[Vector]

For the degree of Shinigami_King's fervor, which I think is pretty fucking indicative, please read the first day of the most recent BM, in which Lenglon was scum and Shinigami_King town.

Here is Deathsword backing Lenglon in this thread:

That said I'll back Lenglon is needed, she did quite well, especially for a late replacement, in BM XL.

(She was town in that game)

Here is Dariush reflecting on Lenglon, who managed to lynch both ICs (myself and Leafsnail) and the cop and nightkill the jailer in BM XLI (actually, I need to go put that in the Notable Games Archive):

I really didn't expect you to end your (and Lenglon's) fairly stellar play on such a note. :-/

Also, I had an achievement drawn up for managing to lynch both ICs. BUT YOU WON'T GET IT. May this forever chew on your conscience.

Here is Griffionday congratulating his partner:

Lenglon:

Our plays will be dissected soon I'm sure, but before they are let me say: you were amazing, we should totally do this again sometime.

Yes, most of this was from a scum game, but I can't find the other data right now.  If I happen to run across it I'll let you know.  Please also take a look at her play in BMXLI and BMXL.

Oh yeah, and here's Lenglon in the LEEK chat from ToonMafiaVII fingering Tiruin as scum D2:

Tiruin is female, and I've played other (non-mafia) forum games with her, and something seems off about her gameplay here. however this is my first mafia game with her, and the nature of mafia games could be throwing me off here.

Look, what I'm trying to say is that she isn't a raw beginner, and I'm pretty sure she knows better than this.  I've played with her before.  She was quite solid in the later parts of BMXLI, nothing like this, and all of her passiveness calls back to her early game there.  That's not just personality, that's actual nervousness.

Anyway, like I said, more later.

[Lenglon]

I've played in three mafia games total, and one revolution game. I'll link all four for you:

BM XL - I am town, and replace in for Spectr on the very last day. this was my debut mafia game, the first time I'd ever played forum mafia at all. - Scum wins

BM XLI - I am scum, and am part of the game from the beginning. This was my second mafia game, and the last time I played with Vector. It is noteworthy that Toon Mafia began soon after the start of Day 2, and that I was lynched in Toon Mafia before the end of Day 2. - Scum wins by lynching the cop followed by lynching both ICs, including Vector on day 2. I think she's still irritated about that.

Toon Mafia - I am town, and am lynched day 1. - town wins despite my lack of effective contribution.

Revolution II - I am town, and replace in during Mission 3, Day 2. -Scum wins. this was my most recent game.

that is every mafia or mafia-esque game i've played thus far, excluding a few games I played IRL many years ago and never did well in.