griffinpupYa. That's easy. The person who is lynched claims before being lynched. This makes the alignment shown upon flipping irrelevant.
Thank you.
zombie uristYou originally voted NQT for rolefishing, which makes this entire section look like backtracking.
Rolefishing was the simplest scummy interpretation of his actions (though not necessarily the only one, or even the scummiest one - see my response to Leafsnail below), so it was the one I went with when I started questioning him. I wanted him to defend himself by offering a pro-town justification for his actions (the same thing I'm looking for from you regarding the accusation of tunneling, by the way, which you've yet to provide), but I would be thoroughly ashamed of myself if I had not taken the opportunity to accuse someone of being a witch for the first time in the game with some dramatic flair.
"Potentially" has no real meaning in mafia. Everything is potentially scummy. Its the same as saying someone is possibly scum.
Arguing semantics is a waste of time. If you don't understand my choice of words, please ask for clarification.
Also if anything I think discussing the matter would allow scum more opportunity to dismiss the idea.
We outnumber them. Dismissing it would only draw attention to themselves.
ONR's post was pretty scummy and I didn't notice anyone else being scummy. Also I hoped to kick the game out of RVS.
It was originally a pressure vote based on the stuff I pointed out in the post.
Now who's the one backtracking? Did you vote me because you'd found scum and wanted to end RVS, or did you vote me as an RVS pressure vote based on some minor issues in my second post?
If you lived in town all your life, then you must have grown up in town.
I did. My flavor is ambiguous on that point. I now have clarification from LNCP.
I still don't think I was tunneling. >_>
You still haven't explained what you do think you were doing. That should help.
Just for fun please show me where you tunnelled to end RVS.
Beginner's Mafia XXIII - One of my debut games under this name. Coincidentally an LNCP game.
Also now I do believe you are scum. The irony.
Why?
RVS questions are lazy. The first two questions are both basically the same and I'll also say why I don't like them later. Third question is a joke. Also a joke question to the mod. Also not included here is a repeat question of Vector's.
I should take offense to that. I put a good deal of thought into those questions.
First, the question to Vector, which you dismiss as a simple repeat question. While repeating someone's question back to them is a relatively common RVS technique, I don't recall ever seeing the particular scenario in which one person asks a question of another, followed by a third-party repeating the question back to the questioner. I wanted to see what sort of reaction I'd get to that particular question coming from an unexpected vector. In addition, it was a good question, and I wanted to hear her thoughts on the matter.
I don't like the first two questions because they both have an obvious answer.
Of course the answer's obvious. That's the first big clue that I've ulterior motives to asking the question.
Yes as both town and SK are uninformed, all information should be considered for all actions. There's really no interesting points suggested by the answer barring extreme situations. Its like asking to show work for 1+1.
Barring extreme situations. Those are the key words.
So the answer isn't so simple as "Yes, of course." You know that.
The answer is "Yes, but..."
The answer is "Yes, unless..."
The answer is "Yes, however..."
You like things simple. Black and white. You automatically shrug off mere possibilities, focusing on the probable, the likely, and the absolute.
I don't know you. I don't know griffinpup. Your answers to that simple, "lazy" question told me how you think about the game, which will allow me to better read your play further down the road.
Deathsword, griffinpup, Leafsnail, notquitethere - All of you have posted. None of you have voted. Please explain why.
This is also lazy, especially since not voting during that stage of the game is not uncommon.
That question was indeed an afterthought. I noticed the long list of "Not Voting" players and it struck me as odd when well over half of the players had posted by then. I threw the question out in order to clear up my confusion. My impression of the RVS meta-play is that everyone is expected to have a vote on someone almost all the time. I'm beginning to suspect that has changed at some point while I wasn't looking.
I also don't like meta reads as a reason. Meta reads can be easily faked, unless you can provide evidence of games in which you are basing this on.
I do like meta reads. Meta reads can only be faked if you're aware they exist. As soon as someone mentions them, the cat's out of the bag, and they're useless in future games. So, the meta game of Mafia, the ability to win consistently, depends on soaking up as much meta-information on your fellow players as possible, in order to improve your reads and to improve your ability to manipulate their perception of you, of others, and even of themselves.
This is one of the reasons I like Bay12 Mafia. Most of the core players here seem to understand that, even if only at a
basic instinctual level. It keeps the game fresh and interesting, even though you tend to see the same faces in every game, since everyone's meta-game has to constantly evolve in order to stay on top.
Using questions to get reads IMO is not the point of RVS, but whatever.
Using questions to get reads
is the point of RVS.
OttofarSo, this is scummy if NQT is scum? Make up your mind on that, waffling is a scumtell.
It's scummy at first glance. I want to know what he was thinking when he decided to do that. I can think of a few reasons a Town player would act as he did, and I want to know which, if any, he's using to justify the action.
notquitethere[OK Okami, the usual way of going about RVS may well be to start your post with a random vote on someone, but that's not the only legitimate way to start. My two-part strategy was: 1. ask the same question of everyone, 2. follow up (with a vote) on the most suspicious of the responses. Are you trying to tell me that this is a worse way to start a game than randomly voting? A random vote has almost no pressure to it.]
Thank you.
[As I just explained to griffinpup, the possibility that there wouldn't be a consensus never even occured to me. This has be borne out by the fact that only one player has refused to give their name and profession. Given the nature of the set-up, this information is to the manifest benefit of the town to be shared.]
So you didn't think about it, you just acted. Not what I wanted to hear, but a somewhat acceptable response. Thank you.
Leafsnail@ONR: your logic still doesn't really work. If softclaiming is something scum need to be pressured into then how is it scummy for NQT to readily claim? If NQT is scum wouldn't that imply that softclaiming is desirable to them?
NQT claiming early muddies the issue, since no consensus was reached. Scum can hide behind indignant or hesitant Town, lessening the pressure. If we'd instead decided to flavor claim as a group, scum would be forced to join in or stand out.
On the flipside, by offering up NQT as a sacrificial lamb (who may happen to have the least significant flavour), they not only provide a reasonable smokescreen for not revealing their own flavour, they also encourage the rest of the town to claim, giving them more information. (I'd like to note here that scum had a whole night to discuss their opening play, so I wouldn't put any gambits past them.)
Anyway, now that NQT's responded to the question, I'd say he's telling the truth. "I didn't consider it." is a weak, yet honest, excuse, and I can't really do anything more with it than admonish him for not thinking before acting.
Tiruin...What kind of question is this? Redirecting the logic on its point.
I agreed with NQT's action in spirit, but disagreed with how he went about it. I've discussed this ad nauseum already, and you can find my responses on the subject
here,
here, and above in this very post. Please read them and let me know if you have any specific issues with my responses, or if you have any concerns that have not yet been addressed.
Why did you start your day with a vote in favor of casual talk? A soft point, I mean.
Because I always start my day with a vote. I like to play aggressively, and I believe that a vote idle is a vote wasted. I was also under the impression that this behavior was standard for RVS stage, and I am a bit confused about why people are questioning it. Would you care to enlighten me?
Not sure what you mean by "A soft point". Please clarify.
Also, after all the pertinent ideas you have here, you branch off and prod at Deathsword for trivial reasons. Why is that?
Because this is a Very Serious Game, and I like to subvert that by injecting humor into my posts periodically. Also, I was disappointed that I was not the first to make a Monty Python reference in this particular game.