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Author Topic: Witches' Coven: In the Heart of Darkness [GAME OVER: 4/13]  (Read 203964 times)

lordnincompoop

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Re: Witches' Coven: In the Heart of Darkness [D5: 6/13]
« Reply #1095 on: October 09, 2013, 08:43:09 am »

Votecount:
Hapah  - 2 -  birdy51, ToonyMan
zombie urist  - 1 -  notquitethere
notquitethere  - 2 -  Shakerag, zombie urist,
birdy51  - 0 - 
Toonyman  - 0 - 
Shakerag  - 0 - 
-
Not Voting  - 1 -  Hapah
No Lynch  - 0 - 
-
Extend  - 3 -  ToonyMan, birdy51, zombie urist
Shorten  - 0 - 



The Day has been extended to Friday, 11th of October, 7PM UTC.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 01:21:10 pm by lordnincompoop »
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ToonyMan

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Re: Witches' Coven: In the Heart of Darkness [D5: 6/13]
« Reply #1096 on: October 09, 2013, 09:00:12 am »

PFP

Three votes on Hapah?
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notquitethere

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Re: Witches' Coven: In the Heart of Darkness [D5: 6/13]
« Reply #1097 on: October 09, 2013, 10:57:50 am »

Hapah
The first is that you seem to be playing very fast and loose with the facts in your accusations, and the second is that you've taken a very hostile stance which isn't exactly giving me a lot of confidence.

ZU didn't 'spew misinformation' (not there, anyway), he gave his opinion that there might be another hostile party. And agree with him or not (I don't, personally), you should try to figure out why he thinks that or convince him why he's wrong instead of just browbeating the poor bastard, right?
ZU's demon-theory is nonsense and it's clear he hasn't really been following the game. I'm hostile because there's a death shaman and a witch left and it's increasingly obvious who they are: ZU is most likely Death Shaman (come on, who doesn't think that?) and you're most likely the final witch. Are you going to use your vote or are you hoping to push a draw at the last moment?

I think there's two main possibilities. The first is simply that you are the Shaman, and requires no explanation. The second is that the Shaman finds you useful, which isn't that far-fetched: Life Shaman was already ID'd N1, and with 3 Witches and only 1 DS the math is pretty favorable. I don't know how a Doc could possibly save you from magic, and the "friendly" magic-user is dead.
Well, as I said we'll find out at the end of the game. I can only speculate. You'd be an idiot to think I would be given a night kill and three flavour investigations to use a night.

I voted Leng because she said some things that did appear to be factually incorrect, then refused to answer any questions about it.
That's being a bit economical with the truth: Lenglon wasn't refusing to answer questions, she was just being apathetic. Did you press her to answer the outstanding questions.

Also, do you still hold by this:
I respectfully disagree. I think the Shamans (at the very least the Death Shaman) have to be dealt with before the Inquisitors will go away, which means we need to do what we can to ID it. Yeah, it's probably ZU, but I'm going to do everything I can to make damn sure we've got it right.
If so, why aren't you rooting out and voting the obvious DS now?

Because if you can provide your inspect results for each night, and it can be confirmed with a fair degree of certainty, then your actions are accounted for. And if your actions are accounted for, then you (probably) couldn't have been murdering people.
And how would he know that you aren't malicious? We can't just start trusting you unquestionably because you started throwing your weight around, can we?
Have you even read the thread? I've clearly investigate people every night as each day I've questioned people about specifics that only they could know about. I'll full-claim when I get answers back from everyone. I'm not asking anyone to trust me unconditionally, I'm just asking people to engage their brains. I've used my investigations to root out witches (Dariush is dead because he lied about his setting details) and I've tried my damnedest to not get lynched. Well... Leafsnail, Lenglon and Irony Owl all made their conclusions about me...

Quote from: NQT
Hapah— where were you on the evenings preceding the witch hunt?
I've got a PM in to clarify, but I'll give you a PFP tomorrow as soon as I know.
I'm waiting.

Toony
Unvote Shakerag.  I don't think you're the last witch anymore.  This goes a bit beyond NQT's investigation but I shouldn't share yet.  Most likely tomorrow unless somebody can convince me the game is going to end today.
Why so mysterious?

Toony— where's your wife right now?
Uh I think she's at my castle, it should be on lock down to avoid people breaking in.
That's acceptable.

Shakerag
Shakerag— what were your relations with Lenglon's shoemaker?
Uhh... what?  *checks PMs*  I have not recieved any indication that I have had any relations with Lenglon's shoemaker.
I just had a weird theory: you're both from out of town. Your husband is dead. He believed his family to be dead. He was a shoemaker. All you have left of your former wealthy life was a pair of nice boots. Probably a coincidence...

LNCP— Were the boots I saw in Shakerag's room of a similar style and level of worksmanship that I saw in Lenglon's home?

ZU
I think I'll vote NQT because his refusal to believe in demons makes me think he is a demon. If he is the death shaman, the witches can revive him tonight anyways.
ZU, no one believes your demon theory. This is WIFOM. Your opportunistic vote on me confirms your guilt. What's your real wincon?

Birdy Thanks for the cooper explanation. That makes some sense. Is your wincon affected by your brother's death?

All I'm waiting on Hapah's response and then I'll fullclaim my investigations.
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zombie urist

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Re: Witches' Coven: In the Heart of Darkness [D5: 6/13]
« Reply #1098 on: October 09, 2013, 11:48:50 am »

Pfp My real wincon is to eliminate all demons
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Don't expect posts until Friday
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The worst part of all of this is that Shakerag won.

Shakerag

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Re: Witches' Coven: In the Heart of Darkness [D5: 6/13]
« Reply #1099 on: October 09, 2013, 11:49:52 am »

Shakerag
Shakerag— what were your relations with Lenglon's shoemaker?
Uhh... what?  *checks PMs*  I have not recieved any indication that I have had any relations with Lenglon's shoemaker.
I just had a weird theory: you're both from out of town. Your husband is dead. He believed his family to be dead. He was a shoemaker. All you have left of your former wealthy life was a pair of nice boots. Probably a coincidence...

LNCP— Were the boots I saw in Shakerag's room of a similar style and level of worksmanship that I saw in Lenglon's home?
This is news to me.  My role pm only mentions shoes, and they're worn to hell from getting to town.

But otherwise yes, I'm from out of town (a number of years ago), and my husband is dead.  My role PM doesn't mention anything about retaining anything from my previously wealthy life.

notquitethere

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Re: Witches' Coven: In the Heart of Darkness [D5: 6/13]
« Reply #1100 on: October 09, 2013, 12:05:43 pm »

Bold New theory

We know the Life Shaman has a counterpart, we've been calling it 'Death Shaman' but we don't know the name. Could it in fact be the Dark Child?

ZU you say your goal is to kill demons... are you magical then?

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notquitethere

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Re: Witches' Coven: In the Heart of Darkness [D5: 6/13]
« Reply #1101 on: October 09, 2013, 12:06:52 pm »

Furthermore, ZU, when you post on Friday (if not before) could you say everything you know about the purported Demo threat?
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lordnincompoop

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Re: Witches' Coven: In the Heart of Darkness [D4: 7/13]
« Reply #1102 on: October 09, 2013, 01:24:04 pm »

LNCP: Does the term "witches" apply to every magic based character or just the Coven?

That depends on who you ask. If you were to find the work "witch", say, in a win condition, you can expect there to be at least one player with the word "witch" in his role name. Characters within the game may have other ideas.

Three votes on Hapah?

Nope.
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Hapah

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Re: Witches' Coven: In the Heart of Darkness [D5: 6/13]
« Reply #1103 on: October 09, 2013, 02:09:29 pm »

PFP
Hapah
The first is that you seem to be playing very fast and loose with the facts in your accusations, and the second is that you've taken a very hostile stance which isn't exactly giving me a lot of confidence.

ZU didn't 'spew misinformation' (not there, anyway), he gave his opinion that there might be another hostile party. And agree with him or not (I don't, personally), you should try to figure out why he thinks that or convince him why he's wrong instead of just browbeating the poor bastard, right?
ZU's demon-theory is nonsense and it's clear he hasn't really been following the game. I'm hostile because there's a death shaman and a witch left and it's increasingly obvious who they are: ZU is most likely Death Shaman (come on, who doesn't think that?) and you're most likely the final witch. Are you going to use your vote or are you hoping to push a draw at the last moment?
You can't just say it's dumb and that's it; it'd be kinda like saying someone is scum without going into any details. If you really want me to use my vote I'll park it on you (NQT) to break the tie, though I'd much rather you just start cooperating. Am I communicating poorly? All I want is the list of who you investigated each night. Though on reflection, it makes absolutely no sense why you're pressing flavor questions now when you didn't do any flavor investigations last night.

I'm really glad I noticed that. Can you explain?

I think there's two main possibilities. The first is simply that you are the Shaman, and requires no explanation. The second is that the Shaman finds you useful, which isn't that far-fetched: Life Shaman was already ID'd N1, and with 3 Witches and only 1 DS the math is pretty favorable. I don't know how a Doc could possibly save you from magic, and the "friendly" magic-user is dead.
Well, as I said we'll find out at the end of the game. I can only speculate. You'd be an idiot to think I would be given a night kill and three flavour investigations to use a night.
Either the kills or the investigations in a given night, not both. I don't think I'd be an idiot for guessing that might be a possibility.

I voted Leng because she said some things that did appear to be factually incorrect, then refused to answer any questions about it.
That's being a bit economical with the truth: Lenglon wasn't refusing to answer questions, she was just being apathetic. Did you press her to answer the outstanding questions.

Also, do you still hold by this:
I respectfully disagree. I think the Shamans (at the very least the Death Shaman) have to be dealt with before the Inquisitors will go away, which means we need to do what we can to ID it. Yeah, it's probably ZU, but I'm going to do everything I can to make damn sure we've got it right.
If so, why aren't you rooting out and voting the obvious DS now?
She straight-up said she was ignoring the questions asked of her. How would you press that? Wouldn't you say that's scummy?

And yeah, I still stand by that text. If ZU was obviously the Shaman that I probably would, but it must not be so obvious if the confirmed non-Witch is voting you, yeah?

Because if you can provide your inspect results for each night, and it can be confirmed with a fair degree of certainty, then your actions are accounted for. And if your actions are accounted for, then you (probably) couldn't have been murdering people.
And how would he know that you aren't malicious? We can't just start trusting you unquestionably because you started throwing your weight around, can we?
Have you even read the thread? I've clearly investigate people every night as each day I've questioned people about specifics that only they could know about. I'll full-claim when I get answers back from everyone. I'm not asking anyone to trust me unconditionally, I'm just asking people to engage their brains. I've used my investigations to root out witches (Dariush is dead because he lied about his setting details) and I've tried my damnedest to not get lynched. Well... Leafsnail, Lenglon and Irony Owl all made their conclusions about me...
Of course I've read the thread. You haven't clearly investigated someone every night, you've clearly investigated some people at some point. There's a difference. You're not asking people to engage their brains, you're mocking anyone that doesn't agree with your point of view. And I don't think anyone is questioning your witch-killing credentials, but that doesn't mean much when you're under some suspicion of being a 3rd party. And I don't know what that last bit is, but I'm sure there's a Mafia term for it: dead townies don't magically know alignments just because they died.

Quote from: NQT
Hapah— where were you on the evenings preceding the witch hunt?
I've got a PM in to clarify, but I'll give you a PFP tomorrow as soon as I know.
I'm waiting.
Me too, haven't gotten a reply yet. (PPE: LNCP posted, might have something sooner than I thought!)


LNCP— Were the boots I saw in Shakerag's room of a similar style and level of worksmanship that I saw in Lenglon's home?
You'll have to ask this in a PM, LNCP won't answer it in-thread.

ZU: Stop trolling.
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ToonyMan

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Re: Witches' Coven: In the Heart of Darkness [D5: 6/13]
« Reply #1104 on: October 09, 2013, 03:34:46 pm »

NQT:
Toony
Unvote Shakerag.  I don't think you're the last witch anymore.  This goes a bit beyond NQT's investigation but I shouldn't share yet.  Most likely tomorrow unless somebody can convince me the game is going to end today.
Why so mysterious?
If I said why, Hapah would know exactly what I'm talking about and there would be no point to my test.

Bold New theory
We know the Life Shaman has a counterpart, we've been calling it 'Death Shaman' but we don't know the name. Could it in fact be the Dark Child?
I think Dariush only called the role "Death Shaman" without knowing the exact name, so this is possible.  But probably not since Zombie Urist is the "Death Shaman" or whatever you would call it.

In fact it's really odd no "Demon" has flipped yet considering we've already had a number of townspeople and witches dead.

I do have a question though, why are you voting Zombie Urist if you suspect they're the DS?  I mean, I know you want to lynch that Death Shaman but I'm not sure the DS counts as a "witch" for our wincon unless you're a third-party.



@ZU:
Pfp My real wincon is to eliminate all demons
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Don't expect posts until Friday
What the heck is with the trolling?  Also, if what you say is true there should be a role with "Demon" in it that's still alive, according to LNCP.

Let's not ignore the fact you prod Dariush what he would know about shamans right after I called you out on being the DS.



@Hapah:
Hapah
The first is that you seem to be playing very fast and loose with the facts in your accusations, and the second is that you've taken a very hostile stance which isn't exactly giving me a lot of confidence.
ZU didn't 'spew misinformation' (not there, anyway), he gave his opinion that there might be another hostile party. And agree with him or not (I don't, personally), you should try to figure out why he thinks that or convince him why he's wrong instead of just browbeating the poor bastard, right?
ZU's demon-theory is nonsense and it's clear he hasn't really been following the game. I'm hostile because there's a death shaman and a witch left and it's increasingly obvious who they are: ZU is most likely Death Shaman (come on, who doesn't think that?) and you're most likely the final witch. Are you going to use your vote or are you hoping to push a draw at the last moment?
You can't just say it's dumb and that's it; it'd be kinda like saying someone is scum without going into any details. If you really want me to use my vote I'll park it on you (NQT) to break the tie, though I'd much rather you just start cooperating. Am I communicating poorly? All I want is the list of who you investigated each night. Though on reflection, it makes absolutely no sense why you're pressing flavor questions now when you didn't do any flavor investigations last night.
I'm really glad I noticed that. Can you explain?
This is true.

However, wouldn't all of us avoiding NQT be a very good thing if we suspect they're the Life Shaman counterpart?  I'm kind of clueless role-wise now with Dariush and Toaster dead and Shakerag likely not being the final witch.

Leafsnail concluded a month ago that:
So, if we take two claimed wincons as true:
- Life Shaman: Life Shaman alive, Death Shaman Alive
- Witch: Life Shaman dead, Death Shaman Alive

Now, I'm going to take a guess at the Death Shaman's:
- Death Shaman (speculation): Life Shaman dead, Death Shaman dead

This might mean that what the town wants (although this may not be required to win) is the last remaining possibility - Life Shaman alive, Death Shaman dead.
So while lynching the DS might be a good thing, lynching every last witch should make their wincon impossible (since they're all dead).

The DS is likely ZU, but I'm hesitant to lynch him.  And I'd care not to lynch NQT either, given that the past two Inquisitors were town (I think) and if they really are trying to get lynched we shouldn't uh, do that.

Though we shouldn't forget were are currently in the witch's wincon, with Tiruin dead and the counterpart, alive, probably.
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notquitethere

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Re: Witches' Coven: In the Heart of Darkness [D5: 6/13]
« Reply #1105 on: October 09, 2013, 04:54:16 pm »

Hapah
You can't just say it's dumb and that's it; it'd be kinda like saying someone is scum without going into any details. If you really want me to use my vote I'll park it on you (NQT) to break the tie, though I'd much rather you just start cooperating. Am I communicating poorly? All I want is the list of who you investigated each night. Though on reflection, it makes absolutely no sense why you're pressing flavor questions now when you didn't do any flavor investigations last night.

I'm really glad I noticed that. Can you explain?
Okay: you're probably scum because everyone else is most likely town. This conclusions has emerged from a holistic appreciation of the voting patterns, player interactions and various players being cleared through investigation. In short:

Toony's vote profile is pro-town and I believe in his conversation with Dariush so this marks him as not-a-witch
Shakerag has no powers so is not a witch
Birdy was probably cleared with wincon nonsense and as Dariush didn't get it at the time, Birdy is probably town

Griffinpup/Hapah has avoided voting scum all game (in fact, mostly avoided voting full stop), tried to elongate Toaster's life and has been subject to very weak distancing from Toaster
ZU has been in a coma and admits to being a counterpart to Tiruin. I've double-checked and I see that Tiruin claimed she was looking to bind her polar opposite and it looks like she bound ZU so...

I'll give you the list of who I investigated when you give me my answer. I'm trying to eke the most out of the uncertainty as to who I investigated throughout the whole game before coming clean. Do you understand? If I admit I haven't investigated someone then they will feel more free to lie to me. If there's uncertainty then they won't know whether I secretly know the truth. I'm not being difficult just for the sake of it.

Either the kills or the investigations in a given night, not both. I don't think I'd be an idiot for guessing that might be a possibility.
Well you obviously haven't been keeping track as I've clearly asked specific investigation-follow-up questions after each night:

Spoiler: Day 2 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Day 3 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Day 4 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Day 5 (click to show/hide)

But do explain to me when in my busy schedule I was supposed to find time for some light murdering?

And yeah, I still stand by that text. If ZU was obviously the Shaman that I probably would, but it must not be so obvious if the confirmed non-Witch is voting you, yeah?
Shakerag's vote is just a bullshit pressure vote. They'll vote you or ZU by day's end unless they've taken complete leave of their sense. And as for Lenglon, it's totally weak and betrays a complete lack of game awareness. Lenglon cleared herself with that wincon stuff. She was being lazy at that point and you were fine to follow up but if you're saying she was more scummy than anyone else at day's end, then you're going to have to have made a much stronger case.

Of course I've read the thread. You haven't clearly investigated someone every night, you've clearly investigated some people at some point. There's a difference. You're not asking people to engage their brains, you're mocking anyone that doesn't agree with your point of view. And I don't think anyone is questioning your witch-killing credentials, but that doesn't mean much when you're under some suspicion of being a 3rd party. And I don't know what that last bit is, but I'm sure there's a Mafia term for it: dead townies don't magically know alignments just because they died.
See the spoilers above. Sure dead townies don't know everything, but we can be sure that they weren't deliberately misrepresenting cases.

Toony
I do have a question though, why are you voting Zombie Urist if you suspect they're the DS?  I mean, I know you want to lynch that Death Shaman but I'm not sure the DS counts as a "witch" for our wincon unless you're a third-party.
You make a reasonable point but I want the best ending possible for the town and following what the Inquisitors have said, all witches and malefactors must be rooted out. I say we lynch ZU today, lynch Hapah tomorrow, dust our palms and head off into the sunset.

Shakerag
Check the spoilers above if you want my post-investigation questions after each night (showing I investigated every night). I'll give a full breakdown once Hapah answers the simple question. LNCP got back to me about the boot and the upshot is that you're probably not connected (the craftmanship is better on yours but it's too well-worn to really tell).
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Hapah

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Re: Witches' Coven: In the Heart of Darkness [D5: 6/13]
« Reply #1106 on: October 09, 2013, 05:39:13 pm »

PFP

Those bunch of spoilers are a load of fluff and I'll take them apart tonight. In the meantime, answer this.

Quote from: Me
Though on reflection, it makes absolutely no sense why you're pressing flavor questions now when you didn't do any flavor investigations last night.

I'm really glad I noticed that. Can you explain?
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notquitethere

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Re: Witches' Coven: In the Heart of Darkness [D5: 6/13]
« Reply #1107 on: October 09, 2013, 06:45:07 pm »

A load of fluff? Bullcrap: in each one I revealed key facts that I couldn't otherwise have known. I'll spell it out for you in teal:

I'm holding off on all the details, Martin, until I get an answer from Lenglon. I know your full name and profession. I've seen your dyed grey blanket and what you keep in your cart. That should be enough to show I'm telling the truth.

Okami
Did you grow up in a monastery? Do you know your family?

Dariush
Why does your work lie unfinished on the bench? Where have you been for the last few days? Where are your apprentices?Why have you prospered in this time of great suffering?
Shakerag— you weren't always a maid, were you? Was your dead husband particularly rich, a man of note perhaps?

Shakerag, tell us all about the two people you share a room with. Don't lie.

Shakerag is not a witch

Those weren't even the only things I found out. And I know you're going to say that it was mostly Shakerag-related— that's because I had to do it enough times to get the ability-investigate. I investigated some people and they confirmed to me things (like Lenglon) and others I really only learned things that they'd already openly stated. It's all there in the thread if you care to look. I'll fullclaim the investigations as soon as you give me a good answer. Also, I answered your question:

I'm trying to eke the most out of the uncertainty as to who I investigated throughout the whole game before coming clean. Do you understand? If I admit I haven't investigated someone then they will feel more free to lie to me. If there's uncertainty then they won't know whether I secretly know the truth. I'm not being difficult just for the sake of it.

Or didn't you actually bother reading my post? The only people in previous days that have pretended to believe that I'm not an Inquisitor have been witches. Take a look at the OP and the previous two Witches games if you don't believe the role exists. This is like Dariush all over again.
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Hapah

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Re: Witches' Coven: In the Heart of Darkness [D5: 6/13]
« Reply #1108 on: October 10, 2013, 03:08:00 am »

Alright, let me pick it apart.

Spoiler: Day 2 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Day 3 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Day 4 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Day 5 (click to show/hide)

Which means Day 2 was rock-solid, Day 3 was a lotta nothing, Day 4 was iffy, and I've no idea what to think about Day 5. All your giant wall-o-text quotes prove is that you ask questions, not that they have any particular flavor inspect teeth behind them. There's a very big difference.

Quote from: You
I'm trying to eke the most out of the uncertainty as to who I investigated throughout the whole game before coming clean. Do you understand? If I admit I haven't investigated someone then they will feel more free to lie to me. If there's uncertainty then they won't know whether I secretly know the truth. I'm not being difficult just for the sake of it.
How can you think that is an answer to "Though on reflection, it makes absolutely no sense why you're pressing flavor questions now when you didn't do any flavor investigations last night". I could kinda believe that you actually just hit Shake (with the 3rd inspect revealing that he has no abilities) and two others with investigations last night if you would've launched into questions right there, but you waited two days and the questions were weak.

I don't know why you made me waste two fucking hours sifting through who claimed what when and cross-checking it all. I mean, good God, you could have just held two or three close to the vest and let out the rest, meet me in the middle instead of balking, you know? I need to sleep now, work in six hours. Workload should be pretty light tomorrow, so I should be able to post a fair bit and go back and forth/elaborate tomorrow.
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notquitethere

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Re: Witches' Coven: In the Heart of Darkness [D5: 6/13]
« Reply #1109 on: October 10, 2013, 03:29:03 am »

Hapah
I've got a good response for your follow up but answer my simple question: what were you doing in the days/nights preceding the witch hunt?
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