Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[tryrar]

It doesn't need a huge gun, it'd need maybe a 10% size increase over the current model, not a significant increase considering the boost to damage.

In ww2 it was also quite common for planes to take direct hits and continue going several times before going down because a small number of bullets can very easily miss the vital parts and a frag round gives you atleast a 4x greater chance of hitting those parts.

So why not just do both? Quad mount the current weapon, give it a minor size increase and use the hybrid AP/Frag rounds.
Take the current strengths and add to them, it can always be designed to use both forms of ammunition without a signifcant problem.

Because as we'd been repeatedly saying, frag rounds are useless for AA. The most common frag rounds are similar to hollowpoints(only with a bigger cavity), while others are basically mini shotgun shells. The way they are designed DOES preclude any sort of ap cap, as that wouldd just squash the round and have it fragment on the surface(with only the solid cap going through, if you're lucky)

[mesor]

((..... How many more times do I need to repeat that it's been tested and is effective? It works perfectly fine. I see why Brood is getting annoyed now so I'm going to consider you to be incapable of accepting a point you dislike and drop this waste of time, Brood I suggest you do the same. ))

[tryrar]

((..... How many more times do I need to repeat that it's been tested and is effective? It works perfectly fine. I see why Brood is getting annoyed now so I'm going to consider you to be incapable of accepting a point you dislike and drop this waste of time, Brood I suggest you do the same. ))

...Ok then, point me to where it's been tested. Maybe I'm missing something

[Doomblade187]

One more point- aircraft aren't a huge threat yet, as we have yet to reach the time period of carrier dominance. Therefore, I suggest we keep our current AA guns and just design a ship around the 280mm and the other stuff.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Mesor I simply don't believe in the tests you claim. And will not believe without serious link backed proof

2 inches of metal?? What caliber, what gun, what ammunition? How diamond like bullet don't shatter before tip penetrates?
And how can fragments spread more than the bullet they formed? It's not a human body, when most damage comes not from bullet itself but from shock waves that create that nasty wounds


Besides you guys have no strategic planning, special ammo is always more
expensive, something you ignore. And two guns are harder to develop then one

[a1s]

Because as we'd been repeatedly saying, frag rounds are useless for AA.

I think the confusion comes from confusing this and that. Basically it's a bullet sized FLAK, which is sadly a bad idea- despite the high volume of fire, fragmenting thumb sized rounds into needle sized pieces just isn't an effective way of penetrating plane hulls (or damaging equipment- though I suppose it will probably put out a few eyes).

[mesor]

No official testing, we did it as a personal project in spare time, when your stuck on base for months at a time you have a lot of spare time so we made a hobby of testing unique weapons and rounds.

Most were completely useless but a fragmenting round with an AP tip proved to be surprisingly effective if you can get the round to shatter after it penetrates, that look a lot of fiddling to accomplish reliably.

But the choice is yours, the round is highly effective and very possible and this is a game, if your just going to carbon copy weapons that already exist and then make tiny modifications to them then I don't see where the fun in the game is when you could take chance to play around with ideas that are a bit more exotic.

But to answer one point, it spreads further because you use a tiny explosive charge to cause the spread. Your point was correct that on metal it would not have the impact range but it was also quite simple to modify it to give it the spread range of damage again.
Believe whatever you like it must be a very cold life for you requiring proof of everything before you can believe it but I suppose some people lie to themselves so much it's impossible to just take something on faith.

(flaming removed)



Nice attempt a1s but no it was a frag round not a bullet sized FLAK which your correct in stating would be no use.

[tryrar]

.......so your test is a personal ancedote huh? Ok then.

I'm not gonna argue with you about it being effective, since your experience shows it can be, but you yourself say it took a lot of fiddling for it to work correctly, which is not something we can afford for an AA weapon. You said you got it to pen 2 inches? What did you fire it at, just to be clear(Also what gun did you fire it from?)

[a1s]

it spreads further because you use a tiny explosive charge to cause the spread.
...
Nice attempt a1s but no it was a frag round not a bullet sized FLAK

Not being a gun enthusiast, I fail to grasp the difference. 

[Toady One]

I'm going to have to lock this if people can't be polite.

[tryrar]

A frag round fragments upon impact, while a FLAK round was basically an artillery-sized frag grenade(the fragments were propelled at high speed by an explosive charge, so that if the round missed it's still hopefully do damage to the plane with high-velocity shrapnel)

[a1s]

A frag round fragments upon impact, while a FLAK round was basically an artillery-sized frag grenade(the fragments were propelled at high speed by an explosive charge, so that if the round missed it's still hopefully do damage to the plane with high-velocity shrapnel)

I see. So the difference in this case would be that we trade the proximity detonation for more explosive or something?

[tryrar]

A frag round fragments upon impact, while a FLAK round was basically an artillery-sized frag grenade(the fragments were propelled at high speed by an explosive charge, so that if the round missed it's still hopefully do damage to the plane with high-velocity shrapnel)

I see. So the difference in this case would be that we trade the proximity detonation for more explosive or something?

Nope, a frag round like we're talking about doesn't have any explosive at all, it just fragments due to the impact with the object

As a matter of fact, the most common type of frag rounds are basically hollow-points with larger cavities, and a thinner copper jacket so that it loses structural integrity on impact and fragments instead of mushrooming

[tryrar]

Sorry for the double-post, but in an effort to get back on track here's my revised designs:


Hero-class Cruiser(Герой крейсер)
Engineers:8+metallurgist&naval engineer
Workspace:10

Armor:3'(76mm) plating below waterline, 21/2'(64mm) above waterline
Armament:2x twin 280mm turrets, 6x LUP-40 AA/AS turrets, 10x siderail-mounted TP-1s, 8 foward torpedo tubes, 2 aft torpedo tubes

Feather(перо)
What it is:Light wooden biplane armed with two TP-1s, nimble dogfighter. Should be cheap, very nimble, easy to learn to fly, trainer and last resort, glass-cannon interceptor
10 novice engineers
Workspace:10

Cruising speed:175mph(281kph)

Also, we need to get at least one wasp built for testing(if we can this turn)
Max Speed:214mph(334kph)
Operational Ceiling:15,000ft(4,572m)
Armament:2x TP-1 mounted in the nose(connected to an interrupter gear)

[a1s]

Nope, a frag round like we're talking about doesn't have any explosive at all, it just fragments due to the impact with the object

Not this one- based on the description, the Mesor Round one has a tiny explosive inside, which detonates once the round has pierced the hull.

As a matter of fact, the most common type of frag rounds are basically hollow-points with larger cavities, and a thinner copper jacket so that it loses structural integrity on impact and fragments instead of mushrooming

I knew that much. The problem with this version is that it either fragments harmlessly on the outside of the plane or enters the plane without fully fragmenting, since the force that causes it to fragment is now gone (well, alright, that's not strictly true- it can still break when hitting the opposite wall of the plane, but this would be quite hard to do correctly).