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[Aoi]

Woo! Just killed the first boss for the first time-- with a dwarf spelunker named Sir Useless.

I love how the boss is huge on the kill list after you die. =P

[Pnx]

Sir Jimmy II A spell sword.

I wound up just beating the final boss the cheap way, using an empowered flame circle.

[Cthulhu]

I'm still working my way up to the third boss.

I think I've finally solved the Lich Problem:  Full Blood Set, Sprint Rune, Vault Rune, 3 Siphon Runes, Crowstorm.  Clear the castle and maybe the forest to max out your HP and MP, you're now Fiddlesticks and basically unstoppable if you don't play stupid.  Kill 5 enemies with crowstorm to fully refund it.  Make the Skull Boss your bitch.

EDIT: Sorry, 4 blood pieces and the siphon cape.

[amjh]

Forest boss, archmage, dextrocardia, spike ball spell, vampire gear.

That was fun.

[nenjin]

Kind of regretting buying it at $15.

It's a fine game, but it's the sort of game I was afraid of based on people's descriptions. Grindy and randomly punishing.

It's not exactly a big game. It's just the difficulty makes it feel that way. Already I've managed to reach every other side area of the game, and still haven't managed to wander my way to the first area boss room.

It's like Binding of Isaac, except there's none of the small joy of seeing new and different combinations every playthrough. There's just a lot of merciless throwing yourself at the level hoping something sticks. You eventually get somewhere, and see something, but that's preceded by a lot of futile runs of no interest and a questionable amount of fun.

Traits are also completely under done. Are more added the farther you get in game? Because what was one of the most interesting features to me turns out to be a tiny part of the game.

I think I would be way less critical of this if I'd paid less. Also perhaps if there was more effort in the visuals, as after looking at the first area for 2 hours, you realize there's actually very little going on there in terms of enemies, visuals or points of interest.

Basically, I feel like the game is overpriced. I know some people have really enjoyed it, but I feel like the only reason this wasn't finished in a night is because it was made so difficult that you have to spend hours and hours grinding your way to being able to finish it. Take away the difficulty, and there really is not a ton going on with it.

It's also really rage-inducing to step into a room with a mini-boss type, and have him one shot you immediately with an attack that fills up most of the screen. I'm sure he's beatable....after hours and hours and hours of grinding so you're tough enough not to die.

[ukulele]

While i do agree the game its super overpriced at 15$, i think most of your complaints dont make sense, you are complaining becouse its not posible to win the game on the first run and the need to grind when basically thats the selling point: "kill your children to improve your linage until you can beat the game".

[nenjin]

My problem isn't with the idea. It's with the execution. "Just playing better" so I can make more than 300 gold, so I can buy an upgrade, so I can be better, so I can try again to survive long enough to make money, isn't super entertaining to me. It's managed to make roguelike mechanics I like feel grindy and annoying because there's no real pay off per life.

As for the whole "kill your generations of descendents", it's a gimmick and one that they didn't really do enough with. If there were more traits that actually mattered and more than a smattering of visual changes, that would be enough. But to me it's a thinly-veiled mechanic for needing to repeatedly, repeatedly, REPEATEDLY, play the same game over and over and over so you aren't done with it in an hour.

Again, I'd compare it to Binding of Isaac, where you play the same game over and over again but:

-There's way more to find per playthrough.
-There's the ways it combines in every playthrough changing game play.
-There's the visual changes which in and of themselves are fun to see and catalog.
-You're only handed a FU room about once every level. In this, it's pretty much every other room.

As I already said, I think it's overpriced because without the difficulty covering up the nature of the game, you'd be done in an hour. There's a dearth of content that a treadmill is trying to cover up.

[Criptfeind]

Eh. The game has issues. But it feels like a lot of your issues just come from a little bit of the 'not good enoughs'. I also don't understand what you mean by the difficulty covering up the game. It's a game, not a interactive movie. The difficulty is why it is fun. Yeah if it was a fucking walk in the park you could beat it in two hours. But so what? That's like, every game. Or rather, every game that's not about the story.

If you don't enjoy playing the game, you are not going to have a good time. That seems a bit self evident, but your issues seem to come down to you not enjoying/not being good at the game itself, but somehow still thinking you should be having fun? There is nothing else here but the game.


At any rate. I just now beat the third boss myself. Decided to try to kill him off fairly early, so it took like 300 years worth of descendants to kill him. Probably could have gone faster if I didn't keep having shitty draws.

It also seemed to highlight a bit of the odd way people earn titles. A barbarian queen got the divine title for clearing out the first three areas then dying to the third boss. And before her a dude got divine for clearing out two and a half areas and dying in the tower. During my attack on the boss everyone who died to him got the useless title, except for a lich queen who cleared out the castle before dying to him, who got the divine title. Which seems sorta odd. I don't think she deserved it. And I think she killed less critters then some guys in the past that got much lower titles. Does anyone know how it calculates titles?

Although the guy who actually killed the boss got the title legendary. Despite the fact he did almost nothing else. I am wondering if legendary is just the title given to anyone who kills a boss.

[Kanil]

... not being good at the game itself, but somehow still thinking you should be having fun?

That seems like an enormously reasonable expectation to have out of a game. Losing is Fun... (or, should be.)

[Criptfeind]

The saying losing is fun comes from the fact that for many people the point of a game like dwarf fortress is all about the complex narrative it creates, the climax of such a narrative is, inevitably, the failure.
But that is not the case in this game. So no. Losing is not fun

[nenjin]

That seems a bit self evident, but your issues seem to come down to you not enjoying/not being good at the game itself, but somehow still thinking you should be having fun?

I'm plenty bad at plenty of high difficulty games. I sucked at Binding of Isaac for the longest time, but I have a great time even losing in Binding of Isaac, because they make the actual playing of the game whilst losing fun. I may lose, but I collected this item, got these items together, looked this way and gee, I can't wait to get back into game!

I don't feel that way about this game. Losing isn't fun, it's a tedium. That's what I mean about the difficulty covering for the fact there's not a ton of game there. "Gee, that 4 minute run only to be dumped into a pit of spikes was....boring. I can't wait to....get handed basically another room like it on my next playthrough."

So yes. I think even when you're bad at a game it should still be giving you entertainment, and this seems stretched really thin on the fun when you don't get anywhere/do anything meaningful. I barely even glance at my descendents now. I only do so to verify they don't have the worst/stupidiest traits. (Again, your descendents is what made me even care about this game in the first place. Turns out, it brings next to nothing to the table. It's "cute" and that's all.)

I think this all ultimately has to do with the fact that while the roguelike/RPG aspects of the game were really played up, this game is really a platformer first, everything else second and third. And as I said, sort of how I don't find the repeated failure in Super Meat Boy fun, I don't really find this fun either, despite all its trappings.

TLDR: if you don't like hard ass platformers, avoid this. It's not an RPG, despite looking like one, and it's not a roguelike, despite borrowing from them. It's a platformer with stats and a hefty grind.

[Cthulhu]

The lineage mechanic definitely wasn't as good as it could have been.  I was sort of expecting at least some kind of genetics system with more complexity, but when it comes down to it if they removed the "legacy" part it'd just be a roguelike where your level/gear carries over but your class and traits change.

[Kanil]

The saying losing is fun comes from the fact that for many people the point of a game like dwarf fortress is all about the complex narrative it creates, the climax of such a narrative is, inevitably, the failure.
But that is not the case in this game. So no. Losing is not fun

That doesn't mean it shouldn't be, or can't be.

There's nothing wrong with a game being difficult to beat, but losing still ought to be fun, no?

[Aoi]

My favorite mistake so far was a run where I managed to clear the castle, forest and tower in entirety for the first time before dying. Then I promptly walked right back in without spending any of my hard-earned gold.

Head, meet wall.

I sort of wish there was an option to refund your manor once in a while so you can experiment with different builds though.

[nenjin]

I was sort of expecting at least some kind of genetics system with more complexity, but when it comes down to it if they removed the "legacy" part it'd just be a roguelike where your level/gear carries over but your class and traits change.

I have had a hard time seeing it as anything but that right now. This feels like the kind of game that would have been better with a few more months and features under its belt. Which is why the price tag has given me buyer's remorse. I feel like this is a $5 to $10 game worth of ideas and execution. I mean, I love Hotline Miami, but $10 was the most it was worth even with all the awesome it had going for it.

I guess this is just me warning prospective buyers: the videos don't tell the whole story and it's very easy to assume depth because of how the game presents itself. I WANT it to be a deeper game, based on how it looks. It's just not. And what I do have, while nice, is definitely not my cup of tea. Not at that price.