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[Toaster]

Strength would (I assume) also be used for non-combat situations in your standard "move heavy thing" tasks, so it's got other utility.

If you use MP as is (which I'm cool with) I would suggest multiplying the numbers by 5 or 10 or so (as in each point you spend gives you 10 MP, regen 10 a turn) to allow a bit more fine-grain tuning of spells.  For example, Wind Blast I might cost 8 MP, while Wind Blast II cost 10, or something along those lines.  This can be done the same for HP, but that's of course optional.

[lawastooshort]

That is a sensible idea, Toaster.

Has anyone had to move anything heavy yet?

[Toaster]

I... think... so?

[Xantalos]

Roñardo's had to toss me in a barrel.

[lawastooshort]

Hmm, well. It all really comes down to what people do. I had a mental list, but it kept growing; it was something like: talking, shooting, being shot at, smashing, being smashed, doing magic, doing more specific things (such as sneaking or riding), dodging stuff, spotting stuff.

I thought that I could use Dodgility and Strengthness, but have them as more... passive stats. So Dodgility would affect dodging: traps, explosions, falling rocks and missile attacks, probably, but NOT melee. Strengthitude would affect HP and physical strength, but NOT melee. Combat could either be affected by different stats, which seems not optimal, or by specific abilities (such as Whiz's +1 to crossbows), which would leave space for 1-2 other stats (in addition to Mana). But none of the other activities - even talking - gets done as much as things related to Dodgility and Strengthness, so those 1-2 stats (such as Perception, or Brain, or Being Social And Stuff) would conceivably be quite weak and pointless.

(I also like the idea of not having a talking-related stat and this being done by RP, which, if it's in character, should work at least as well, but possibly isn't fair)

The point of introducing the stats was to offer some fairness between characters when turning cooldown spells into MP spells. I don't recall the logic behind this train of thought though.

[Harry Baldman]

Strength would (I assume) also be used for non-combat situations in your standard "move heavy thing" tasks, so it's got other utility.

It's not a use of strength that gets used much, similarly how your knowledge of architecture is used less often than it theoretically could be during a dungeon crawl. Fact is, only place where Strength matters is in combat, sort of like how the only thing Toughness really matters for is getting HP. You can also use Strength to jump, swim, climb, walk around on your hands and other things that you don't do unless the GM makes a concerted, persistent effort to include these things into play as being strictly necessary. The utility is there theoretically, but not practically. So combining Strength and Toughness (Constitution) puts it roughly on par, balance-wise, with something like Dexterity (when said dexterity somehow combines the attributes of speed, agility and the actual definition of dexterity at the same time).

Hmm, well. It all really comes down to what people do. I had a mental list, but it kept growing; it was something like: talking, shooting, being shot at, smashing, being smashed, doing magic, doing more specific things (such as sneaking or riding), dodging stuff, spotting stuff.

I thought that I could use Dodgility and Strengthness, but have them as more... passive stats. So Dodgility would affect dodging: traps, explosions, falling rocks and missile attacks, probably, but NOT melee. Strengthitude would affect HP and physical strength, but NOT melee. Combat could either be affected by different stats, which seems not optimal, or by specific abilities (such as Whiz's +1 to crossbows), which would leave space for 1-2 other stats (in addition to Mana). But none of the other activities - even talking - gets done as much as things related to Dodgility and Strengthness, so those 1-2 stats (such as Perception, or Brain, or Being Social And Stuff) would conceivably be quite weak and pointless.

(I also like the idea of not having a talking-related stat and this being done by RP, which, if it's in character, should work at least as well, but possibly isn't fair)

The point of introducing the stats was to offer some fairness between characters when turning cooldown spells into MP spells. I don't recall the logic behind this train of thought though.

Dodgility and Strengthitude being used for combat as well would probably make more sense, I think, especially with how combat-heavy this game tends to be.

[lawastooshort]

Dodgility and Strengthitude being used for combat as well would probably make more sense, I think, especially with how combat-heavy this game tends to be.

Yes, that probably does make sense. Dodgility would probably then add a bonus to missile attacks and missile/melee defence, and Strengthitude would add to melee attack. Then bonuses to any other more specific actions such as talking and perceiving would probably be better handled by individual character's ability bonuses, as if they are made a stat-related bonus then that stat will be quite underpowered compared to D/S/M(ana).

So I will (I might even not change my mind after sleeping on it!) use Dodgility, Strengthitude, and Magitellience... er... Magisdom... Magisma. Mindpowah. And therefore reduce the amount of points to spend to... 4+character level (i.e. 8 total, for you) where 0-1=-1; 2-3=0; 4-6=+1; 7-10=+2 bonuses and Strengthitude x10=HP and Mana x10=MP.

[lawastooshort]

Right then – how about all this? I made example stat distributions just to see if it balances and should work, which I think the below should. If it seems acceptable, please post a stat distribution for your character, and then I/we can start working on translating the abilities and balancing stuff.

Stats: There are THREE stats. You have 4 (+1 per character level) points to distribute amongst them.
Stats affect rolls thus: 0-1=-1 to rolls; 2-3=0; 4-6=+1; 7-10=+2.
Dodgility:
Strengthitude: (additionally, 1=+10HP in addition to 5HP per character level, plus a 10HP Hero bonus)
Mentalism: (additionally, 1=5 points, which are regained at the rate of 5 per non-bleeding/burning non-combat turn.)

Spoiler: Example stat distributions: (click to show/hide)

(these are my estimates, I’d let you choose, obviously)

Tackov:
Dodgility: 2: so you’d have no bonus to dodging or shooting.
Strengthitude: 0: 30HP – so, for example, if you had a leg severed in one turn, you’d start dying of blood loss next turn and you’d have -1 to melee attacks.
Mentalism: 6: 30 Mana – so you could cast 6 average level spells before needing a rest

Whiz:
Dodgility: 2: so you’d have no bonus to dodging or shooting.
Strengthitude: 2: 50HP – so, for example, if you had both legs severed in one turn, you’d start dying of blood loss next turn and you’d have no bonus to standard melee attacks.
Mentalism: 4: 20 Mana – so you could cast 4 average level spells before needing a rest

Foxglove:
Dodgility: 4: so you’d have +1 to dodging or shooting.
Strengthitude: 2: 50HP – so, for example, if you had both legs severed in one turn, you’d start dying of blood loss next turn and you’d have no bonus to standard melee attacks.
Mentalism: 2: 10 Mana – so you could activate 2 average level powers before needing a rest, if you had any. Or, if anyone had the spell MIND BATTLE, you would have no bonus or penalty to a MIND BATTLE roll. MIND BATTLES may happen, one day.

Gervedder – either as Foxglove or:
Dodgility:  2: so you’d have no bonus to dodging or shooting.
Strengthitude: 4: 70HP – so, for example, if you had both legs and an arm severed in one turn, you’d start dying of blood loss next turn and you’d have +1 to melee attacks.
Mentalism: 2: 10 Mana – so you could activate 2 average level powers before needing a rest.

Bukkar:
Dodgility: 0: so you’d have -1 to dodging or shooting.
Strengthitude: 6: 90HP – so, for example, if you had both legs and an arm severed in one turn, you’d start dying of blood loss next turn (but need less medical care than Gervedder above to survive) and you’d have +1 to melee attacks.
Mentalism: 2: 10 Mana – so you could activate 2 average level powers before needing a rest

Sylvanna:
Dodgility: 4: so you’d have +1 to dodging or shooting.
Strengthitude: 4: 70HP – so, for example, if you had both legs and an arm severed in one turn, you’d start dying of blood loss next turn and you’d have +1 to melee attacks.
Mentalism: 0: 0 Mana – so you could use no mental powers


A Level 1 Man at Arms:
Dodgility: 2: so you’d have no bonus to dodging or shooting.
Strengthitude: 3: 45HP – so, for example, if you had both legs severed in one turn, you’d start dying of blood loss next turn and you’d have no bonus to standard melee attacks.
Mentalism: 0: 0 Mana – so you could use no mental powers

A Level 1 Mage:
Dodgility: 0: so you’d have -1 to dodging or shooting.
Strengthitude: 0: 15HP – so, for example, if you had a leg severed in one turn, you’d start dying of blood loss immediately and you’d have -1 to standard melee attacks.
Mentalism: 5: 25 Mana – so you could cast 5 average level spells before needing a rest

Code: [Select]

[b]Dodgility:[/b]
[b]Strengthitude:[/b]
[b]Mentalism:[/b]


[Toaster]

Your example's pretty much spot on for Tackov.

[Dwarmin]

Lady Foxglove complains through the fourth wall, reeking of cultured outrage, squid riding, and her favorite perfume, odeur de l'argent.

"My stats would be much higher than that! I'm much smarter than Tacky or Whiz, and Sylvanna is not nearly as Dodgilicious as me. Not to mention as majestic, graceful, imperious, or...humble."

She turns her nose up in the GM's general direction, to show how disappointed she is in his obvious impartiality.

[Harry Baldman]

That works well for Gervedder, I'd say (the stat block actually for him, I mean).

[Xantalos]

Seems good!

[IronyOwl]

Pfft, mental powers. Who needs em when you can just give your creations like fourteen brains?

[lawastooshort]

I'll add the rest as I get them done. There's only one room left on this level of the dungeon so it'd be nice to crack on. The colours are terrifying, incidentally.

The first short sheet is for the turn posts, the long sheet is probably for the second OP.

Spoiler: Players (click to show/hide)

 
Tackov Cedtry
Stats: D2 / S0 / M6
Status: [HP: 30/30] | [MP: 30/30]
States +1 Missile defence | -1 Melee.

Whiz
Stats: D2 / S2+2 / M4
Status: [HP: 50/50] | [MP: 20/20]
States +1 Lower leg, groin, head and breast defence | Last in initiative rolls | +1 to melee attacks | +1 to crossbows | -1 to long range shooting.

Gervedder Vietzo
Stats: D2 / S4 / M2
Status: [HP: 70/70] | [MP: 10/10]
States +1 Gut and chest defence | +1 Defence if moves | +1 Flaming Axe. | +1 to melee attack | Very tall.

Lady Foxglove Vainglorious the III
Stats: D4 / S2 / M2
Status: [HP: 50/50] | [MP: 10/10]
States +1 to Head, chest and groinbone defence | Dodges fist missile hit | -1 to initiative and balancing | +3 to initiative | +1 to missile attacks | +1 to dodge.

Bukkar Crangrom
Stats: D0 / S6 / M2
Status: [HP: 90/90] | [MP: 10/10]
States +1 Piercing groinalheadbutt attack | Vomits | Ignites | Naked | No head | -1 to dodge | -1 to dodge | +1 to melee attack

Sylvanna the Felonious
Stats: D4 / S4 / M0
Status: [HP: 70/70] | [MP: 0/0]
States: +1 to dodge. +1 to melee attack.

Dronebongo: [HP: 20/20] | +1 Melee bite | 2 kick attacks

Jack the Hippo: [HP: 30/30] | Cannot bleed

Lord Squid: [HP: 20/20] | Flying

Current Players:

Spoiler: Tackov Cedtry, Toaster (click to show/hide)

Name: Tackov Cedtry
Class: Level 4 Gusty Wind Mage
Status: [HP: 30/30] | [MP: 30/30]
States: +1 missile defence. +1 to future gut damage. -1 to melee. -1 to future left leg wounds. -1 to feet.
Stats:
Dodgility: 2
Strengthitude: 0
Mentalism: 6
Health:Severed Guts! | Magical Saucepan Leg | Severed Foot!
Abilities: Airfist I, Magical Typhoon I, Wind Blast I, Wind Blast II, Wind Step I, Sissy Slap Fight
Inventory: Minor Mana Potion x1, Scroll of Beginner’s Fireball x1, Mouldy Wizard Hat, You Bastard the Mangy Donkey, Cloak of Camouflage, 2011.24 Yuros, Solid Gold Lingerie x 2, a massive angry boulder stalker, Burny-Vomity-Nakedy Wand; Robe of Improved Magic, Holy Incendiary Grenade of Sef.

Spoiler: Whiz, Chink (click to show/hide)

Name: Whiz
Class: Level 4 Whiznificent Whiz Wiz(ard)
Status: [HP: 50+20/50+20] | [MP: 20/20]
States: +1 to lower leg, groin, head and breast defence. Last in initiative rolls. +1 to melee attacks. +1 to crossbows. -1 to long range shooting.
Stats:
Dodgility: 2
Strengthitude: 2+2
Mentalism: 4
Health: Mummy!
Abilities: Competent Crossbow User, Red Carpet, Shield I, Gee, Mr. Whiz, You Sure Are Fast! Gee, Mr. Whiz, You Sure Are Fast II, Obviously a Powerful Wizard, It’ll Make You Blind!
Inventory: Crossbow x2, Unlimited Quiver, Raider’s Dress of Shin Protection, 11 Yuros, Middling Mana Potion x1, Cutlass,  Three daggers, Minor Health Potion x1, +1 Bolt of Accuracy x4, +1 Bolt of Burning x3, +1 Bolt of Paralysis x1, Carrying Serf x0 (not currently mounted), Steel Groinplate, Steel Helmet, Steel Breastplate.

Spoiler: Gervedder Vietzo, Harry Baldman (click to show/hide)

Name: Gervedder Vietzo
Class: Level 4 Damaged Opportunistic Messenger
Status: [HP: 70/70] | [MP: 10/10]
States: +1 Gut and chest defence | +1 Defence if moves | +1 Flaming Axe. | +1 to melee attack | Very tall.
Stats:
Dodgility: 2
Strengthitude: 4
Mentalism: 2
Health: Extra Long Legs!
Abilities: Gauntlet, Sprint of Fury[/color], Just a Brainflesh Wound, Nimble Feet, This Messenger Delivers, Important, Stop For Directions
Inventory: Crossbow, Unlimited Quiver, 0 bandages, 0 Yuros, Iron Cuirass, Crossbow, Gerald the Mule, Two weeks rations and a bedroll, Apprentice Herbalist's Manual, Herbalist's Containers x5, Masterwork Flaming Axe of Death.

Spoiler: Lady Foxglove Vainglorious the III, Dwarmin (click to show/hide)

Name: Lady Foxglove Vainglorious the III
Class: Level 4 Glamorous Ravenhaired Crusader
Status: [HP: 50/50] | [MP: 10/10]
States +1 to Head, chest and groinbone defence | Dodges fist missile hit | -1 to initiative and balancing | +1 to missile attacks | +1 to dodge.
Stats:
Dodgility: 4
Strengthitude: 2
Mentalism: 2
Health: Broken Head
Abilities: Nonchalant Dodge, Ravena’s Ear, Silent as a Raven’s Wing,  Opportunistic, Honeyed Tongue, Vain, Self-Reliance
Inventory: The Raven's Wingblade, Minor Health Potion x1, Crossbow, Unlimited Quiver, Masterwork Helm, Flying Warsquid, Sword, Mercenary Squidrider Uniform, Masterwork Poledancing Pole, chainmail lingerie, 34 Yuros, 10 bandages, Decent provisions (day) x4, Live eel x648, Red dragon-scale vest, Curse Grenade of the Slimy Eel.

Spoiler: Bukkar Crangrom, Xantalos (click to show/hide)

Name: Bukkar Crangrom
Class: Level 4 Sprayin' Ragin' Mage
Status: [HP: 90/90] | [MP: 10/10]
States +1 Piercing groinalheadbutt attack | Vomits | Ignites | Naked | No head | -1 to dodge | -1 to dodge | +1 to melee attack
Stats:
Dodgility: 0
Strengthitude: 6
Mentalism: 2
Health: The Vomiting! | Blessed By the Godses | Stony Facelegthing | The Burning!
Abilities: Whirlwind Rage I, Rage Flight, Rage Lazors I, Ass of the Flaming Foot I, Lightning Fist I, Always Looking For a Fight, Always Hungover
Inventory: Crossbow, 0 Green Farthings, Large Sealed Bling Barrel, pick.

Spoiler: Sylvanna the Felonious, IronyOwl (click to show/hide)

Name: Sylvanna the Felonious
Class: Level 4 Alchemical Flesh Mechanic
Status: [HP: 70/70] | [MP: 0/0]
States: +1 to dodge. +1 to melee attack.
Stats:
Dodgility: 4
Strengthitude: 4
Mentalism: 0
Health:
Abilities: Construct Control I, Craft Corpse Glue I, Craft Alchemical Corpse Glue I, Corpse Assimilation , Crawly Hands
Inventory: A dead kobold, clothes, Buckler of Sharp Death, 0x Glue, Hat of Command.

[lawastooshort]

Right so I've done any changes discussed, where were we?

Surely we were about to kick in the door and wave in the metaphorical 44? Yeah!

So unless anyone objects, I will come to some kind of arrangement regarding Bukkar's head, and we can proceed to the final room on this level of the dungeon!


As soon as I get time. Which might be tomorrow. Bukkar's actual new sheet is not shown above - I'm pretty feverishly excited about his newly improved capacity for self- and team- harm. Tackov's too, actually. And Sylvanna's promise to construct an elephant solely made of brains.