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More Complex

41 (73.2%)

Less Complex

1 (1.8%)

same complexity

12 (21.4%)

Elf mode

2 (3.6%)

Total Members Voted: 55

[PDF urist master]

Complexity is defined as the mental burden put on the player (copyright EXTRA CREDITS) basically, the more rules you have to memorize, the more complex a game is.

i also think increasing the amount a person has to manage in a given amount of time also counts as increasing complexity

[mnjiman]

What I would like to see is a more refined game that would allow for more purposeful complexity, rather then having the mental strain being applied by the current bugs, UI, and poor game code which causes players to have to think about how their fortress is made and how to avoid low FPS.


Anyways, you can increase the amount of dwarfs you get already.

[i2amroy]

With your definition of complexity (where complexity basically equals micromanagement) I'd not like to see an increase in complexity. If we take the meaning of "complexity" as "ability to simulate the real world and new features" then I'm always up for more of it.

(As an example with your definition making the UI worse would also cause an increase in complexity, where my definition won't.)

[Iceblaster]

Complexity is defined as the mental burden put on the player (copyright EXTRA CREDITS) basically, the more rules you have to memorize, the more complex a game is.

i also think increasing the amount a person has to manage in a given amount of time also counts as increasing complexity

I prefer complexity over depth(I saw the episode too, yay I am not the only one) and would care less if I had to micromanage each dwarf to make sure Urist McMouselover doesn't interact with Urist McCatlover lest their families begin a gang war... though I would like the existing features fleshed out

[King Mir]

As features get added, they player has to remember how they work. And that qualifies as complexity. For instance, the addition of vampires and the new justice system is was a new thing the player had to learn. I don't see that trend decreasing. Note that it is possible to add features without much increase in complexity if the features are very similar to old features, such as by adding more details to the raws. I  don't see that as the trend of development (though details do get added to the raws).

I agree with i2amroy that UI complexity should be logically separated. The UI may or may not become more intuitive and easy to use with further development, which would mean less details and idiosyncrasies that the player needs to be aware of in the absolute sense, but it would be misleading to say that dwarf fortress would be less complex with a better UI. It's, at the least, a different kind of complexity.

[dwarfhoplite]

I'd like to see Toady put his time into gameplay mechanics such as economy and the class warfare inside the fort rather than complex biology (hormones and blood types or whatever) what people are suggesting.
More features but not that trivial guys please.

[Mesa]

If there's a comprehensible tutorial up there (at first there won't be, that's the part of it, though), I won't care less.
That said, Dwarf Fortress has at least a LOGICAL complexity, as opposed to...I don't know, nothing comes to my mind here.

But the game isn't very gimmicky, it's just extremely deep (I watched that episode, too!) and that allows you to take things rationally and do it by logic.
Although there are some things that can't be worked around with that way. (see: HFS, strange moods)

[Mr S]

I've been trying to think of an example to seperate UI issues from complexity of the game itself.  I do believe I've got a very good one.

UI complexity is the difference between trying to solve a Rubix cube vs trying to solve a Rubix cube in Braille while blindfolded.

Complexity in game mechanics is the difference betweeen Connect Four and Back Gammon.

[PDF urist master]

from what i'm getting at in the comments and polls the majority wants DF mechanics to be more complex but the UI to be less complex.

i completely agree. i also feel like the current tutorial is unable to teach the player the mechanics of the game. i think a tutorial mode might be a possible third option in the menu (with an ability to turn off tutorials once you grasp the game) but i'm not sure how to implement a good tutorial mode for even half of the mechanics in the game.

[comham]

A little more automation in areas where it doesn't matter so much, like how you don't have to designate webs for collection, or how hunters butcher their kills automatically. That would be welcome.

[Putnam]

I want less burden on the player, more burden on the computer.

More complex mathematically and systems-wise, less complex UI-wise.

[DWC]

Complexity is irrelevant, I want more freedom and features and challenges to the game. The UI and optimization needs work, 'complexity' related to working around bugs and tedious UI isn't the same as complex challenges or giving the player more tools to work with.

[SquatchHammer]

I'd like to see Toady put his time into gameplay mechanics such as economy and the class warfare inside the fort rather than complex biology (hormones and blood types or whatever) what people are suggesting.
More features but not that trivial guys please.

Economy cant not function at all. Look at what he has for the example (points to reality), see its all fucked up. For class warfare in a fort... eh. Its not that really fun. I would like to see more mechanical items in the game though.

[Putnam]

Economy can function. He just needs to rework it entirely.

[mross]

It's not that complex. There's not that much I have to remember beyond "these plants are outdoors" and "this is how you make a military" and shit like that

It's not complex, just cluttered. I don't care what plant my pants are made from. I don't need to know where the vomit is. I just. Don't. Care. Get rid of it.