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Author Topic: Bombs explode during Boston Marathon- Suspect Killed, Suspect Caught  (Read 33157 times)

Sheb

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Re: Bombs explode during Boston Marathon - Now Cambridge is on Lockdown
« Reply #330 on: April 19, 2013, 08:22:28 am »

Which could be a problem. It's nice for us to be able to follow them, but it kinda diminish their efficiency I guess.
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Akura

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Re: Bombs explode during Boston Marathon - Now Cambridge is on Lockdown
« Reply #331 on: April 19, 2013, 08:28:39 am »

Boston police are asking for media not to reveal the positions of the officers as they are doing the house-to-house search. But I'm sitting here, listening on my cellphone to them talking on their radios...

As to the use of lethal force, these are heavily armed suspects, likely wearing suicide vests, who have alreade engaged police in a heavy exchange of fire. While I hope no more lives are lost, in my judgement lethal force can be used if needed, i.e. if he is found and can't be stopped by other means. If an angry drunk stands in his yard with a shotgun and won't follow police orders, then you should try a shot to the leg but this may be a step beyond that.
Legshots are by no means a "safe" method for incapacitating a subject without killing them. It's very easy, moreso in the legs than say, the arms(though it's probable even with an arm shot), to rupture a major artery. Shooting the kneecap will most likely cripple the person for life, which is especially bad in the case they are innocent of what the police are after them for and their actions are the result of fear of arrest - and don't say they wouldn't run if they weren't innocent, if a cop anyone draws a gun and starts shouting at you, fight-or-flight will kick in overdrive - or in the case of a shotgun drunk, extreme consequence for what is probably a misdemeanor(assuming the weapon is not discharged).

There's a reason tazers exist, and even though those aren't neccessarily non-lethal, they're a lot safer than a gun in incapacitating someone.



That said, I believe deadly force is appropriate for this situation. There was probable reason to believe the suspects were highly dangerous in the first place, and they did fire on police, resulting in at least one police fatality, from what I heard.
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Re: Bombs explode during Boston Marathon - Now Cambridge is on Lockdown
« Reply #332 on: April 19, 2013, 08:32:33 am »

Just want to add to the previous discussion that while Swedish police doesn't have to use their guns much, when they do they routinely take people down by shots to the legs. So it's not something impossible to expect from your law enforcers if you hold them to any kind of standard.
There is also training and overall policy to that effect.  Swedish police may have been trained from the start to go for the legs.  But, I know of no examples where they had to face off against people shooting back. 
American police may be trained to not chance it, it is better to have a dead suspect then a dead/injured cop.  And I think I heard of a sort of '1 step up' policy... whatever resistance you get, you go one level higher in response.
You can say, standards are very different if you are trying to compare.  Can't really make it out like American police have none at all. >.>

I know some old timey arcade game had you playing as a cop and scoring extra points for shooting the gun out of people's hands or some other 'non-lethal' takedown shots... but that is much harder then the arcade game makes it out to be, if you applied it to real life.
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tahujdt

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Re: Bombs explode during Boston Marathon - Now Cambridge is on Lockdown
« Reply #333 on: April 19, 2013, 09:40:15 am »

Just want to add to the previous discussion that while Swedish police doesn't have to use their guns much, when they do they routinely take people down by shots to the legs. So it's not something impossible to expect from your law enforcers if you hold them to any kind of standard.
There is also training and overall policy to that effect.  Swedish police may have been trained from the start to go for the legs.  But, I know of no examples where they had to face off against people shooting back. 
American police may be trained to not chance it, it is better to have a dead suspect then a dead/injured cop.  And I think I heard of a sort of '1 step up' policy... whatever resistance you get, you go one level higher in response.
You can say, standards are very different if you are trying to compare.  Can't really make it out like American police have none at all. >.>

I know some old timey arcade game had you playing as a cop and scoring extra points for shooting the gun out of people's hands or some other 'non-lethal' takedown shots... but that is much harder then the arcade game makes it out to be, if you applied it to real life.
Even if you hit his leg and cripple him, there's still the itsy bitsy teeny weeny matter of the BFB (Big Fucking Bomb™) strapped to his chest. I think he would have still been able to trigger that unless he was knocked out from the pain. That, however, goes back to the above adrenaline/drugs point.
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misko27

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Re: Bombs explode during Boston Marathon - Now Cambridge is on Lockdown
« Reply #334 on: April 19, 2013, 10:02:33 am »

The real question is, Why would Chechans attack the US? They've focused exclusively on Russia. Something's wrong here. I reserve my judgement.
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Sheb

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Re: Bombs explode during Boston Marathon - Now Cambridge is on Lockdown
« Reply #335 on: April 19, 2013, 10:15:52 am »

They're of Chechens descents. You can be a chechen and a right-wing hardliner. Or maybe they're just mad.
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scriver

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Re: Bombs explode during Boston Marathon - Now Cambridge is on Lockdown
« Reply #336 on: April 19, 2013, 10:17:05 am »

They might be Islamists (probably lone wolves in that case, due to the lack of announcements) who just happens to be from Chechenya. Or they might just be two ordinary crazies who happen to be from Chechenya.
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Sirus

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Re: Bombs explode during Boston Marathon - Now Cambridge is on Lockdown
« Reply #337 on: April 19, 2013, 10:27:55 am »

Jesus, things seem to have escalated quickly overnight. Any news on the second(?) suspect?
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nenjin

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Re: Bombs explode during Boston Marathon - Now Cambridge is on Lockdown
« Reply #338 on: April 19, 2013, 10:30:23 am »

At large, as of the moment.
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Re: Bombs explode during Boston Marathon - Now Cambridge is on Lockdown
« Reply #339 on: April 19, 2013, 10:35:06 am »

Honestly, I hope they're just two random crazies.  That neither religion nor politics drove them to this.
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Re: Bombs explode during Boston Marathon - Now Cambridge is on Lockdown
« Reply #340 on: April 19, 2013, 10:40:52 am »

The title is wrong, he is in Watertown, not Cambridge. But yeah, a fucking busy night. THey have closed the whole city down just in case, can't even get to work.

Zangi

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Re: Bombs explode during Boston Marathon - Suspect in watertown?
« Reply #341 on: April 19, 2013, 10:50:04 am »

It is kinda... 'funny', for lack of better word, that 2 individuals can shut down everyday activities/businesses for +500k? people for more then 12(?) hours...

Is it like some form of martial law?  It does seem like it...
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tahujdt

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Re: Bombs explode during Boston Marathon - Suspect in watertown?
« Reply #342 on: April 19, 2013, 10:53:01 am »

It is kinda... 'funny', for lack of better word, that 2 individuals can shut down everyday activities/businesses for +500k? people for more then 12(?) hours...

Is it like some form of martial law?  It does seem like it...
When they're dealing with people who are not above strapping a bomb to their chest, I think a bit of martial law is justified.
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Zangi

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Re: Bombs explode during Boston Marathon - Suspect in watertown?
« Reply #343 on: April 19, 2013, 10:55:03 am »

It is kinda... 'funny', for lack of better word, that 2 individuals can shut down everyday activities/businesses for +500k? people for more then 12(?) hours...

Is it like some form of martial law?  It does seem like it...
When they're dealing with people who are not above strapping a bomb to their chest, I think a bit of martial law is justified.
I'm not saying if it is justified or not, I'm just wondering if it is some form of it.  Mostly a comment on how so few can cause it for so many.
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Bombs explode during Boston Marathon - Suspect in watertown?
« Reply #344 on: April 19, 2013, 11:17:09 am »

Sirens everywhere. I don't suppose anyone has any indication of shit happening in Malden, do they? o__o
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