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[Megaman]

In slightly related news, 11 car bombs went off and killed 22 people while injuring 100 in Iraq, the same day as the incident in Boston. However, I cannot find a single US source that makes mention of this... Just felt like pointing that out. Hell, even China Daily makes mention of this. I understand that this was a tragedy, but it wasn't the only one that day. Sadly, the one in Iraq wasn't nearly as covered in the US as it should have been (from the looks of it, not covered in the slightest).

They would've mentioned it if U.S servicemen died.

[Myrkky100]

The MIT/Watertown thing is turning into quite a mess. At least one police officer was killed in the MIT, there was a carjacking and the thing moved next door to Watertown, where another officer is apparently injured. Videos on YouTube contain audio of heavy gunfire and explosions. The connection to the Boston bombings has apparently been confirmed and one of the suspects may be dead while the other is hiding somewhere in the town. Police and SWAT are doing a sweep of the whole area. Confusingly, there are photos of people also being taken into custody.

Beyond the actual event, this is an interesting media phenomenon. I dislike Twitter but have to admit this is a Twitter-news event. News channels just can't keep up with people actually listening to police scanners.

[Knight of Fools]

Wow, they're cracking down on these guys much faster than I thought they would.

[scriver]

That guy looks white, but the other guy looks pretty middle eastern to me.

Middle Eastern? Guy's obviously Italian.

[alway]

So wait, how many are there?

I'm seeing reports that:
At least 1 suspect arrested

1 suspected killed in gunfire

1 suspect on the loose.

Edit: Ah, it the one arrested died in custody.
Edit2: or was never arrested to begin with; other sources are saying the 'arrest' bit was a misinterpretation of a common source used by the media.

[Owlbread]

I'm going to say that both bombers look vaguely middle eastern, the guy in the white cap more so.

I also have to say that I'm disappointed in American law enforcement again. If you have an entire bloody armada of FBI, Homeland Security and Police officers, why does the guy in the shades have to get shot so many times the medical staff can't actually count the number of gunshot wounds that have peppered his body? There are countless non-lethal methods that could have taken that guy down and put him on trial.

It's just like when some of the best special forces operatives in the world were sent to kill Bin Laden, simply because it was more convenient for the US government than to capture him. I really hope the chap in the white cap is captured alive.

[sneakey pete]

There are countless non-lethal methods that could have taken that guy down and put him on trial.

Keep in mind the situation.

There's 2 guys behind a car shooting at you with rifles.
Its night time.
They're in a heavily populated residential area
They're not standing still
they have explosives.


What non lethal method do you propose that has half a chance of doing anything in this situation?

[Owlbread]

Keep in mind the situation.

There's 2 guys behind a car shooting at you with rifles.
Its night time.
They're in a heavily populated residential area
They're not standing still
they have explosives.


What non lethal method do you propose that has half a chance of doing anything in this situation?

I would suggest stun grenades, tear gas and rubber bullets. I know the first two would be ineffective in a very open environment (tear gas may be dangerous out in the open like that as well) but they would do the job, provided they wouldn't ignite the explosives of course.

[ECrownofFire]

I'm going to say that both bombers look vaguely middle eastern, the guy in the white cap more so.

I also have to say that I'm disappointed in American law enforcement again. If you have an entire bloody armada of FBI, Homeland Security and Police officers, why does the guy in the shades have to get shot so many times the medical staff can't actually count the number of gunshot wounds that have peppered his body? There are countless non-lethal methods that could have taken that guy down and put him on trial.

It's just like when some of the best special forces operatives in the world were sent to kill Bin Laden, simply because it was more convenient for the US government than to capture him.

A big rule of guns is that you never shoot to wound. You always shoot to kill. Especially in cases of crowded areas (that police often have to deal with), you can very easily miss and hit a bystander. You don't try to shoot someone in the leg, arm, or anywhere but the center of mass. People can shrug off basically everything with enough adrenaline (and/or drugs). You don't shoot for anything but the best guarantee when it's the difference between life and death. Shooting accurately is difficult enough outside of a life and death situation. If you shoot to wound, and miss, then they're going to shoot you or another person.

Basically the question is this: whose life would you rather save? The suspect's, or your own? Because anything less than shooting to kill can easily get yourself killed instead.



Anyway, there are two suspects. One was wearing a black hat, and is now dead. One was wearing a white hat, and is currently on the run. Two police officers have been shot, one is dead and the other is in surgery.

... It's incredible that only two officers have been shot during all of this. This could have turned out much worse.

I would suggest stun grenades, tear gas and rubber bullets. I know the first two would be ineffective in a very open environment (tear gas may be dangerous out in the open like that as well) but they would do the job, provided they wouldn't ignite the explosives of course.

Adrenaline can enable people to basically ignore REAL bullets, so how effective would rubber ones be?

Also, mixing explosives is a VERY VERY BAD idea. And yes, open areas make them basically useless and even more dangerous.

[Owlbread]

I suspect that if the fellow in the black hat was shot as many times with rubber bullets as he was with real ones he would be down for the count.

[sjm9876]

Simply put, they had to choose between trying to take them alive or protecting people. They chose the second. Taking him alive is much more difficult, and would almost certainly have meant more people died. And you're criticising the government for this?

[Owlbread]

Simply put, they had to choose between trying to take them alive or protecting people. They chose the second. Taking him alive is much more difficult, and would almost certainly have meant more people died. And you're criticising the government for this?

I disagree that it is almost certain that more people would have died if they'd used rubber bullets or another non-lethal method. You don't seem to have any proof of that beyond the assertion that it is more difficult.

You know, you'd think with all the capital that is poured into new, efficient ways of killing people for the US military, at least a portion of that could go into more efficient ways of bringing down criminals non lethally.

[Max White]

Eh, I think we are all making assumptions as to how this is all going down, and assumptions aren't reliable. It seems reasonable to me that maybe they just couldn't find a safe way to bring in the guy who was most likely carrying explosives and may have been willing to blow himself up with some civilians and police. Then again it also seems reasonable that a bunch of police out for some revenge shot the crap out of a fleeing man. I have no idea what happened, and will be reserving judgement until more is known...

[Owlbread]

Eh, I think we are all making assumptions as to how this is all going down, and assumptions aren't reliable. It seems reasonable to me that maybe they just couldn't find a safe way to bring in the guy who was most likely carrying explosives and may have been willing to blow himself up with some civilians and police. Then again it also seems reasonable that a bunch of police out for some revenge shot the crap out of a fleeing man. I have no idea what happened, and will be reserving judgement until more is known...

Or they thought it was easiest to shoot first and ask questions later. That's US government policy.

I've heard conflicting reports from friends of mine (no clear sources) that the guys had Russian-sounding names. They actually look like Chechens. Exactly what they'd be doing blowing stuff up in the USA rather than Moscow... I honestly don't know.

EDIT:

Yep, RT's got it.

http://rt.com/news/chechnya-suspect-boston-bombing-110/

They've been identified as brothers from the Russian side of the Caucasus, not far from Chechnya. The surviving bomber is Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. He's only 19.

God fucking damnit. As if Chechnya hasn't suffered enough now every man and his dog in the USA will see that tortured people as a bunch of terrorists.

[Max White]

Yea, that could have been it!
Heck for all I know they shot the crap out of the wrong guy because the description given to them was 'Middle eastern male with a cap' and another man fitting that was in the wrong place at the wrong time. It could have been one of the most brutal police murders we have ever seen!
Or it could have been the only way to stop a highly violent criminal known to be armed with guns and explosives. That is also feasible at this point.