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[Slartibartfast]

quote:Originally posted by LordBucket:
<STRONG>http://www.ocmartialarts.org/misc/BucketFortress.PNG </STRONG>

The trade depot trap is pointless. As the fortress is built now, only dwarves merchants will get to that depot since humans need a 3 wide smoothed road. (Actually, I don't know about the elves. Never got them without a 3 wide road, but I don't know if its actually necesary, since it doesn't say so anywhere)

Also, I'd double-door the refuse stockpiles to avoid accidental miasma spillage

The stone storage is a bit pointless, and all the hauling gets annoying. Like other people said, the stockpileless style works well.

Finally, having the main hallway be only 3 tiles wide (with no room for expansion) could prove annoying later on.

[ktrey]

Catapults are another way to chew through massive quantities of stone, and the fact that operators take forever to train to legendary helps too. I usually designate at least two of the peasants in the third immigration wave as operators, have them haul a bit until their engines are up and ready, and then remove everything but operating from their jobs.

In the winter, mineral hauling is turned on and their large plain rock stock pile is refilled.

[Jaqie Fox]

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/373/baseplan2la1.jpg

Second try.  This time I am trying some suggestions and things I saw in Bucket's fort.

This time, the biggest problems I have had are:
1) The damn seeds show up RED when  I tried to plant them through half the year, so I only got 55 planted and harvested even though I had TWO farmer(10) and a farmer(6) to do it (I nile farmed you can see where)
2) Unicorns. Damnit, they tore through two of my war dogs and my metalsmith has a nice h-h-head injury because of them.
3)Miasma across the river, What the hell? ive gotten that several times for no reason I can see, Ive never seen it before this.
4) Damn mandrills! Damn them all!  They ran off with an iron helmet, crossbow, and a few other very valuable iron items that my dwarves carelessly left instead of wearing!

I ended up doing this with my dwarves:

code:

#1   miner(10)      Sigun Erithlaton
#2   farmer(10)      Zasit Rakustablel
#3   farmer(10)      Lolor Asablel
#4   farmer(6) brewer(6)   Cog Zirilerib
#5   woodcutter(10)      Tekkud Rushrulmebzuth
#6   carpenter(10)      Kogan Atirdolek
#7   ambusher(6)      Cog Tholonul      animal handling, animal care, masonry, mechanics

[ March 13, 2007: Message edited by: Jaqie ]

[TomTheHand]

quote:Originally posted by Jaqie:
<STRONG>
3)Miasma across the river, What the hell? ive gotten that several times for no reason I can see, Ive never seen it before this.</STRONG>

Interesting.  This is caused by dead vermin, one of which I can see in your screenshot.  However, I didn't realize that vermin die on their own.  I always assumed it was my cats killing them.  Maybe they fight it out?  If a cave spider runs into a rat, maybe it kills it?

[Jaqie Fox]

I know what miasma is and comes from, I just never saw it occur on its own before.

Holy...
a 19 dwarf immigration mob.

[Nephilim]

Maybe a fly got caught in a spider's web?

I don't know if it's a coincidence, but I've seen miasma occur 'on it's own', and under it were a dead firefly and a spider's web, so I assumed it got caught in the web and died.

[Jaqie Fox]

I decided to restart on a calmer map, as my object now is to learn efficient base creation, not fighting unicorns and getting stuff stolen by monkeys... not yet.

I think this may be the one I finally get good at, good omen. the place is called Steeldance.

[schnobs]

regarding miasma out of nowhere: in a larger treefarm, I had a dead rats problem. I don't know what killed them and why, or if there was miasma. But there was a constant traffic picking up rat remains.

[Paul]

Its the cave spiders. It seems that if a vermin runs into a spider web, it dies.

[LordBucket]

quote:Slartibartfast :
The trade depot trap is pointless.
humans need a 3 wide smoothed road.

  Only their wagons need a three wide road. The rest of them show up fine, and since I'm just killing them and taking their armor it doesn't really matter if the wagons come.

quote:I'd double-door the refuse stockpiles
to avoid accidental miasma spillage

  Yes. That would have been good. Though it hasn't been nearly as much of a problem as the one door preventing river overflow. For some reason spiders really love to leave their corpses on that lone door.

quote:The stone storage is a bit pointless, and all the hauling gets annoying. Like other people said, the stockpileless style works well.

  It's not like there's any shortage of labor.

quote:having the main hallway be only 3 tiles wide (with no room for expansion) could prove annoying later on.

  It's not really an issues with the lattice design I'm using. That central corridor ends up not seeing nearly as much use as the vertical ones. My road design isn't:

code:

.   .   .   .   .   .
.   .   .   .   .   .
.....................
.   .   .   .   .   .
.   .   .   .   .   .

But rather:

code:

.....................
.   .   .   .   .   .
.   .   .   .   .   .
.....................
.   .   .   .   .   .
.   .   .   .   .   .
.....................
.   .   .   .   .   .
.   .   .   .   .   .
.....................

Most of the flow of traffic in up/down, not left/right. The central corridor itself sees much less use than the vertical corridors.

quote:Jaqie:
only got 55 planted and harvested

  In your first two seasons our of winter? That should be plenty. Especially if you managed to fertilize the fields. That could have worked out to what, 275 plump helmets?

quote:seeds show up RED when I tried to plant

  Yes, plump helmets can't be planted year-round. You can bring (or find, if you get lucky with an herbalist) other seeds that can be planted in the off-season, but I don't usually bother. Two seasons out of the year is enough to keep everyone fed.

quote:http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/373/baseplan2la1.jpg

Simple, but looks like it should be extremely effective. Let us know how it turns out on a map without unicorn.  

Bucket Man

[Jaqie Fox]

No. 55 plump helmet as a result of farming. and no, the plump can be planted all three growing seasons by mine. my problem is during the growing season ALL of my seeds went red several times.
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/4370/baseplansteeldancingpb7.jpg

As you can see, I have kept the same basic layout, but was able to do much more. This is mid-winter.  I am going to move the current animal area down below the farm area already hollowed out.  Above what is now the animal area, I plan on mining that out and turning it into a stone processing center and stone craft storage area.
After that, I plan on adding more bedrooms like are already shown, cross the channel with a 5-wide passage south, and create noble areas down there along with additional backup storage areas.  As you can plainly see, I am planning defenses near the entrance including a barracks.

~edit~
one last note.
Thanks for the 'efficient' compliment.  I am a lot like 7 of 9 in that I value efficiency very highly. (sorry ive been watching voyager lots while playing DF)

~edit 2~
First wave of immagration has just come, and it appears I am actually ready. http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/7830/firstwavesteeldancingoo0.jpg

[ March 14, 2007: Message edited by: Jaqie ]

[Xeirxes]

No matter what anyone says, I always welcome the immigration waves, especially if they're large. I like having lots of hands to work on the fortress with.

[Jaqie Fox]

 Take a peek, As you can see I have seen some action both internal and external.

Are veins usually that rich (top right corner) or did I get lucky? And is gold that common or did I get lucky there too?

[ March 15, 2007: Message edited by: Jaqie ]

[ March 15, 2007: Message edited by: Jaqie ]

[LordBucket]

Hey...coming along nicely, I see.   Looks like great use of space, too. I like my lattice designs, but they eat up a ridiculous amount of space. Huge storerooms like you have work extremely well...I just don't like the aesthetics of it.

A few thoughts:

1) The wiki doesn't mention it, but according to a post I recall reading a few days ago here, statues improve room quality based on the number of empty spaces adjacent to them. Of course, I'm sure the dwarves eating in your dining hall consider it Legendary anyway.

2) If you allow the Dwarven Economy to start, your worker dwarves may have trouble affording those bedrooms. They're large enough for nobles.

By the way, just HOW MUCH food do you have? I don't think I've ever seen a food stockpile that large. Or are some of those barrels empty?

As to gold...yes, that does seem like a lot. The really weird thing, though, is seeing it before the chasm. I've never seen gold that early. It does seem like on most maps there is one type of ore that is more common than anything else...it looks to me like the random number generator was kind to you and made it gold. By way of comparison, in my current game I've mined out easily ten times as much volume between chasm and magma and I've yet to see ANY gold. Not one nugget. Again, looks like your RNG was kind.

Bucket Man

[Jaqie Fox]

that gold before the chasm was moved there from the vein you see just after it.

As you can see, the gold must be all over (or I just hit most of it right off!)

The statues are in there because there isn't much better place to put them, that was to get them out of the way while helping the dining room some.

As for the economy, I am hoping not to trigger it... I dont know how to stop it from being triggered, but I dont want it.  If it does come along Ill figure out a way to get rid of the bookkeeper.

My food is mostly unprocessed.  I finally made a cook to deal with it... the leftmost vertical swath is alternating log piles and furniture piles. the vertical swath next to the field and next to the river are my food stores.

The reason it is so big again is most of it is unprocessed and just tossed into barrells.

Food stores: 2121
Meat: 63
Fish: 18
Plant: 396
Seeds: 181
Drink: 812
Other: 651 (mostly simple and fine meals, some unprocessed fat)

396 (all) of the plants are plump helmet. That is what's taking so much space, I would assume.  What is odd is I have 138 cave wheat plants yet to be processed and 139 sweet pod plants the same. Maybe it counts those in other not plants?

[ March 15, 2007: Message edited by: Jaqie ]