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[Mr S]

Once diseases make it in game, I see infant mortality being the natural extension of this.  Yep, it's morbid.  Also realistic.  However, it would make the default CHILD_CAP make sense in context again.

I don't see it as game breaking, but flavor.  A very dark, chilling flavor.

Moreb Leadspoon has been depressed by a miscarriage recently.
Moreb Leadspoon has endured the illness of a child recently.
Moreb Leadspoon has become morrose.

On the up-side, if the goingtohappeneventually personality re-write is made aware of these casual relationships of event and their psychological after effects, Suddenly: Procedurally Generated Superstitions!

Urist McMason cancels task: Build Wall.  Cannot find path THAT DOES NOT PATH UNDER A LADDER.

[matskuman5]

FYI, anyone claiming that merely breaking compatibility with Dwarf Therapist would make DF impossible is wrong, as I and several others do exactly that.

Go Purists!


Similarly with those complaining about announcements "recentering the screen every 15 seconds" or about cats.

Heh, I've never used Dwarf Therapist or DFHack too.

Go purists!

[Baccar Wozat]

Pathfinding algorithms based on Zeno's Paradox.

[Sutremaine]

I'll go with dwarves being able to say 'no' to your orders whenever their individual AI says so, not just when you can see their On Break or Attend Party status.

I never understood the appeal of DT. If you know what you're doing then you don't need it. You can say that it's hard to micromanage a hundred dwarves, but there are more elegant solutions which result in you not having to pore over every single dorf.

I dunno, once you've seen the quality of goods produced by a no-skill dwarf with either really good stats for the job or useful preferences, it's hard to imagine doing that by going through the unit list. I'll grant that most of the time it doesn't matter, but for picking out new metalworkers needed right now or processing raw trade items and selling them back before the caravan leaves it's very useful. (Also, for the latter case, you could spam wooden spiked balls or serrated discs or prepared meals, but ehh, I don't much like doing that).

[Ruhn]

For me it might be micromanaging feeding the carnivore animals.  AKA war dogs at the front gate constantly have to be moved to some other zone where they can hunt and kill some pigs.  This would also be a problem for war animals assigned to soldiers, unless the soldiers took time out to stop and feed them automatically.

Also, having to provide water ponds for all animals.

[fractalman]

Pathfinding algorithms based on Zeno's Paradox.

This.  oh, horrors, this. 


Because not only would the fps go to insanely low (any idea how many steps it takes to turn 1 into 0 with floats?), I can just see the dwarves taking zeno seriously!

[PrimusRibbus]

Sadly, for many of my friends the micromanagement breaking point for DF was the DF2010 Military/Uniform system.

While I wouldn't call the DF2010 Military/Uniform system a gamebreaker myself, it is the #1 part of the current game that could use streamlining via 3rd party utilities.

[codyorr]

A DNA selecting minigame for children.

[tolkafox]

Eagleton. If you're dwarves don't like your fortress, they'll move to a better one. Without telling you.

'A migration has left!'

[Urist Mcfortwrecker]

hmmm... terible UI, no wait that's in.
making it impossible to make dwarves wear the right equipment, no that's in as well.
AHA! reintroduction of dwarven economy, want a bed? pay for it? not enough coins? metalsmith is too sad to forge them cause he has no coins to pay for use of the forge. the dwarven economy would be amazing but also nearly impossible to manage without third party utilities

[slothen]

incompatibility with DT.  Why in the world would you want to go to the unit list, scroll through 100-200 dwarves, guess which legendary cheesmaker is ACTUALLY your woodcutter, go through 5 more button presses, hit enter to toggle one bit from 0 to 1, and then go back to the unit screen again?  I'd much rather access and view 1000 pieces of information with a single click, than take 10 clicks to view 1 piece of information.  Is DT necessary?  hell no its not, but the question is "impossible to micromanage."  Without it, micromanaging is reasonably off the table, and I think we all know the general levels of OCD-ness that float around this community, removing DT compatibility would be just.... mean.

Can't spell Purist without Urist.  Interpret as you will 

Seriously though, this whole discussion (regarding DT) reminds of discussions in EVE.  Like DF, its such a complex game, that people go out of their way to try and enlighten others on how to do something "right" or "efficiently."  And almost all of the time they're well meaning.  The problem is, some people don't want to be told, or in this case, simply don't care and want to do what they want to do (its a game after all).  And the elitism and insults fly between people that ordinarily get along, and its unfortunate because 99% of the time, the person doing the advising has a valid point, and is coming from a place of altruism, not elitism.  But its also misguided, because they get the impression that if they just explain further or press harder, the other party will just 'see the light,' so to speak, and will be so much happier for it.  And that's just wrong because they understand, they just don't care.  So, do I think non-DT users are crazy?  hell yes I do, but that's ok.  This is a DF forum, and lots of people are crazy here.  You're also crazy if you build a dwarf computer, or build an arena out of glass walls even though you know dwarves can't see through them, or build shrines to fallen warriors merely for your own enjoyment.  Or mod your happy little modded ponies to butcher and eat sentients.  Doesn't make it less awesome.  Sorry if I've offended anyone.

[fractalman]

Eagleton. If you're dwarves don't like your fortress, they'll move to a better one. Without telling you.

'A migration has left!'

That, actually, would make things easier.  Not that I've had trouble with temper tantrum spirals...but then, I'd exploit overlapping bedroom designations just for the fps benefit. 

[Rustydwarf]

FYI, anyone claiming that merely breaking compatibility with Dwarf Therapist would make DF impossible is wrong, as I and several others do exactly that.

Go Purists!


Similarly with those complaining about announcements "recentering the screen every 15 seconds" or about cats.

I used to be a purist, and I still could be but I think "meh, its there for mw to use"

[Deathworks]

Hello!

So, do I think non-DT users are crazy?  hell yes I do, but that's ok.  This is a DF forum, and lots of people are crazy here.  You're also crazy if you build a dwarf computer, or build an arena out of glass walls even though you know dwarves can't see through them, or build shrines to fallen warriors merely for your own enjoyment.  Or mod your happy little modded ponies to butcher and eat sentients.  Doesn't make it less awesome.  Sorry if I've offended anyone.

I can't help but wonder: I myself play Dwarf Fortress in "easy mode" (pop cap 7, No Invasions, embarks without aquifers and in temperate, non-evil biomes, minerals increased, starting points maxed out, lots of z-level above and between cavern layers, no vampires, no werebeasts) as more of a casual game, so I have never seen the need to go beyond the tools the game itself offers, as my fortresses are usually small and easily surveyed (my current fortress is in its 8th year, just saw the birth of a child bringing it to whooping 19 dwarves (had been 20 until 2 died in mining accidents)) having no military and no "fun" or "!fun!". I am usually reluctant to breach the caverns, having done so this time only in hope of saving a dehydrated dwarf (I think I have never built a magma forge, and I think I saw the magma sea but once, and I never tried teasing the circus). Sure, there are a lot of things in Dwarf Fortress I am not experiencing, but the things the game offers even in this light version is enough fun for me. And for those, the game is usually sufficient as it is in my eyes. I am wondering, am I crazy because I play it in this light way, or am I still crazy because I don't see the need for external tools...

I am not offended and I don't want to attack you. But I am wondering whether you have taken "casual players" like myself into account.

Yours,
Deathworks

[slothen]

I believe I have taken such casual players into account.  Having a small number of dwarves certainly lessens or eliminates the need for external management tools.  In fact, I considered that when writing the post but didn't mention it specifically.  What I was trying to get across in my quoted text there was that there are more ways to play the game than can be enumerated, yours being one of them.  I meant to use "crazy" as word to articulate the "otherness" of someone else's gameplay choices without being critical.  Criticizing someone else for using dwarf therapist is about as silly as criticizing someone for not using it.  I would highly recommend it for anyone running a fort with lots of dwarves, but I similarly understand the appeal of not using it all (screen switch, immersion breaking, etc).  The community has had similar threads over the years over the use of traps, the discovery of danger rooms, even farming with quarry bushes and occasionally they all seemed to have dipped toe now and then into the waters of "the way you play is inferior to the way I play."  With a game that people hold as near and dear to their hearts as this one, people are bound to be very sensitive to such criticisms, even when done in jest like I suspect the "go purists" stuff was.  Even moreso when some of those playchoices put them in the supposed minority (such as not using DT i would imagine), or cross into accusations of cheating.  I suppose all this could be condensed into some boring "be nice to and considerate of others."  But I also wanted to express my opinion that DT is a great tool useful to many many people.