Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[falconne]

FYI, anyone claiming that merely breaking compatibility with Dwarf Therapist would make DF impossible is wrong, as I and several others do exactly that.

That works at the moment because you don't have to be efficient. You don't really need to think about what tasks you give dwarves: when a migration arrives, if some of them are highly skilled at some specific task then you let them do that, otherwise you just put them into a generic hauling pool to assign tasks to when you need them. Sure you can be more efficient by micromanaging, but there's no real reward for it. It's also easy to keep dwarves ecstatic, so there's no reason to actually care about their thoughts or preferences once you know what you're doing. Essentially the dwarves become automatons running around doing stuff while you build a megaproject. Once in a while one of them will have a mood but that's easy to deal with.

However, as time goes on I expect Toady wants to make the Dwarves behave more like individuals who don't want to be shoved into a generic labour pool. Then you probably _will_ have to care about every individual dwarves preferences, personality and skills, or else face a never ending series of tantrum spirals. They may have specific jobs they want to do and if you can't provide them with satisfying work you might find most of your skilled dwarves simply leaving.

When that happens I think you _would_ want a better way of managing your dwarves.

[mross]

I wish we could get rid of labor settings altogether. When you set a job like workshop construction or item crafting, whichever dwarf out of the ones that feel like doing it that is the best suited for the job would automatically claim it. Things like hunting and fishing and web gathering that can potentially kill your dwarves can be globally toggled.

[Deathworks]

Dear mross,

Personally, I would rather not have the labor settings removed. I usually decorate my fortresses with statues and also like to engrave floors and walls, and I also enjoy looking at the items and maybe even trying to use statues to make themed statue parks. Being able to control which dwarf works on my statues and which one doesn't can be rather helpful to avoid a flood of statues about "Urist surrounded by dwarven cheese".

In addition, it allows you to train dwarves for certain tasks. And this may include tasks that dwarves are indifferent to. This may be interesting if you don't have enough dwarves who think farming is the greatest job to do. Or if you want to have a group of dwarves who do field work and all the related jobs so you can put their housing near their working space - and you would not want half of them walk to the other end of the fortress to do some metal working just because there is a job to work on their favorite metal.

Therefore, I see the labor settings as an important way the player has at least a little say in what is going on in the fortress.

Yours,
Deathworks

[Loud Whispers]

I wish we could get rid of labor settings altogether. When you set a job like workshop construction or item crafting, whichever dwarf out of the ones that feel like doing it that is the best suited for the job would automatically claim it. Things like hunting and fishing and web gathering that can potentially kill your dwarves can be globally toggled.

All that'd do is reduce the effectiveness of the workforce and the total control to which the overseer can macromanage their Fortress. On an individual Dwarf labour managing level, the current UI is adequate [if newb and mouse unfriendly]. But it comes as a pain for some who look to mass change labours on Dwarves; never is this more apparent than when an Overseer takes over a succession Fort and tries to model the workforce to more suit their goals... And it takes tedious amounts of time. In time.

And if you're seriously bragging on the internet about being a video game purist with a straight face, I just... wow

Look up the definition of bragging. It's declarations made in excessive-prideful manner in a boastful fashion.

FYI, anyone claiming that merely breaking compatibility with Dwarf Therapist would make DF impossible is wrong, as I and several others do exactly that.

[Where is the boasting]

[mross]

Go Purists!

This.
Go Purists!

right, what was I thinking, no tribalism here.

as for the other stuff, if dwarves were coded intelligently, it wouldn't be an issue. the most skilled dwarves would perform the appropriate labors, and unskilled dwarves would take on new labors during shortages. automatic and intelligent military and equipment assignment during a siege. intelligent training. heck, maybe they'd even be able to channel a pit without killing themselves and each other, without any need for oversight. i mean, are these Dwarves with a capital D, or are they helpless infants?

again, it can be an option. "easy mode" and "classic" UIs. could also be finer-grained, for mix and matching of UI elements

[Loud Whispers]

Go Purists!

right, what was I thinking, no tribalism here.

[Where is the boasting]

[HmH]

Go Purists!

This.
Go Purists!

right, what was I thinking, no tribalism here.

Oh, so that's what you fight against. Not narcissism, not purists or bronies by themselves, but tribalism, a universal, evolutionarily endorsed tendency of human beings to build and defend communities.

I, for one, disagree with your attitude. I see tribalism as nothing less than an incredibly useful survival mechanism. The dickish behavior that tribal interactions cause to surface is unpleasant, but it's less related to tribalism and more related to the fact that people like being assholes to those they perceive as enemies.
Our current situation only proves that needless hostility is not tribe-dependent: you don't belong to any one tribe and still you attack other people for the terrible crime of being different.

[Ovg]

I agree with mross, nobody is better or worse just by the way they play the game, nor are we some kind of elite gamers who have the amazing mental capacity to learn to play dwarf fortress. Just drop the issue and stop both ways. No more childish "GO US WOOOO" or "Tribalism! Tribalism everywhere!".

Back on topic:
-Toady deleting pause
-Dorfs getting unhappy thoughts from not working in their profession
-Dorfs being able to decide they "Don't feel like working"

[Morrigi]

If dorfs could decide they don't feel like working, then we should be able to decide that we don't feel like giving them booze. Should straighten them out.

[The_Gman]

When it hits beta with most if not all of the features are implemented, that will be the day but I figure it will become sentient before that happens.

[Loud Whispers]

I agree with mross, nobody is better or worse just by the way they play the game, nor are we some kind of elite gamers who have the amazing mental capacity to learn to play dwarf fortress. Just drop the issue and stop both ways. No more childish "GO US WOOOO" or "Tribalism! Tribalism everywhere!".

I'd disagree with mross because there is no one saying that. The last person who did say that got grilled to a roast. There is not much else to understand.

[chevil]

-Dorfs being able to decide they "Don't feel like working"

They already do that. It is called being on break.

[Ovg]

I'd disagree with mross because there is no one saying that. The last person who did say that got grilled to a roast. There is not much else to understand.

I was tired and overreacted, sorry.

They already do that. It is called being on break.

I mean like "Urist cancels make stone throne: Bad day". Randomly. And then go on a break.

[sealclubber]

I think giving dwarves some sort of digestive system would suck. You would have to build bathrooms or they would poop everywhere.

[Arbinire]

What most people are posting as breaking points to them almost seems like both fun and !FUN! to me. 

Like sewage and ablutions wouldn't change much of how the game is played now.  I'd see initially dwarfs would just run outside to do their business like how they do for water, early in fort life have buckets in their bedrooms with a designated dumping zone, and eventually dig out a working plumbing and sewer system which could also be used in fortress defense and !SCIENCE!.

Also I love playing with mods, like Genesis and Masterwork, which add dwarven castes, so I already tend to try and give my dwarves jobs and tasks they favor because they're better suited to the task, and having shopkeepers and such would also be nice if we get to a point where we can switch between fortress and adventure mode without having to retire your fort.

I do agree though having no pause would be a gamebreaking feature, I don't think it's anything we'd need to worry about since it's not a multiplayer game.

I think for me a gamebreaking feature would be having things like SIDS, high mortality rates amongs births, and needing a functioning hospital/medical system to increase survival rates of procreation.  While realistic, it's just depressing, and it'd be tedious having to keep up with soap productions, thread and cloth, etc.