Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[PDF urist master]

i've had this idea of building a moat around my fort so invaders have a harder time getting in. i have a river to provide infinite water. my only problem is: is a moat practical?

[☼!!Troll Fur Sock!!☼]

It is. But fill it with water only to 2/3, 'cause undeads can float on water and many mounts can swim. So that way what can't swim will drown, and what can't will have it legs broken from the fall.

[Lielac]

Are you in a biome where water freezes during part of the year? If so, a watery moat is going to be a serious pain in the ass when winter comes and it freezes over. Goblin sieges also tend to show up in winter, so...

Solution: Magma moat. May require a huge pump stack and a lot of engineering, but it's dwarfy, never freezes, and I don't think anything can swim in it so long as you've got temperature on.

[moki]

The most practical solution is a dry moat (with the ramps removed), though it's not as cool. The very best is a magma moat, but of course getting enough magma to the surface is quite a bit of work and will cost many lives if you're not very experienced.

[Catsup]

just go with a wall, you'll be building a roof later and moats tend to be funner since goblins have vision and often come with archers of some kind.

[PDF urist master]

i have a wall, but i also want some secondary defences. i'm in a warm biome where water never freezes. i've considered a magma moat, but it takes a lot more time effort and seem way less practical because my fort is literally next to a river.

[Loud Whispers]

Make it 2zlvls deep. Fill up 1zlvl with 7~ of water.

You get all the benefits of a moat with the benefits of a ditch and the disadvantages of neither.

[Oaktree]

Make it 2zlvls deep. Fill up 1zlvl with 7~ of water.

You get all the benefits of a moat with the benefits of a ditch and the disadvantages of neither.

Until one of your defending dwarves dodges into it and drowns, of course.

[Catsup]

but what purpose does a moat serve that a wall doesnt?

[Maw]

but what purpose does a moat serve that a wall doesnt?

Excessive overengineering?
Chance of something going wrong causing FUN.
Just not dwarven enough?

[Loud Whispers]

but what purpose does a moat serve that a wall doesnt?

Cheap, quick to construct as opposed to the labourious task of mass masonry (including now the added necessity of blocks), keeps Marksgoblins away from the walls so that fortifications protect your Dwarves while keeping them in field of view, looking awesome, providing an additional buffer zone of defense e.t.c.

[Catsup]

yea only good thing i can think of for moats is you simply need to channel, good for neutral evil or maybe savage neutral embarks where you dont need to immediately wall off but a semi-secure area is very nice.

I havent thought of using them to separate enemy rangers from fortifications before, i always place my archers 1 Z level above the ground (and behind fortifications) apparently 1 Z level counts as well and enemy archers directly below cant shoot through.

wet moats are kinda waste though, unless part of a dodge-trap or made into some kind of pit

[Loud Whispers]

I havent thought of using them to separate enemy rangers from fortifications before, I always place my archers 1 Z level above the ground (and behind fortifications) apparently 1 Z level counts as well and enemy archers directly below cant shoot through.

1zlvl below adjacent to your marksdwarves will be easy shooting for enemy archers, it'll be almost as if the Fortifications weren't there. That's why there's ditches and moats.

Wet moats are kinda waste though, unless part of a dodge-trap or made into some kind of pit.

Anything that falls in, needs to breathe and can't swim'll drown to death instead of moping around waiting for marksdwarves to end their lives. It's a bloat really, but it looks rather nice.

[Catsup]

thing is, enemies will not normally jump in a moat unless there was a retracting bridge that was under them. Which in turn makes it a pit, not a moat. And enemies need to literally be hugging your fortification to shoot through it, if they are 1 Z level below and hugging the wall, they cannot shoot through it (the fortification 1 level above) as they are literally hugging the wall below. (i do notice my marksdwarves cant reach them either from behind the fortification if theyre close enough but i have smaller towers that can cover those spots as well.
 the fortification design is like this:
   F d___ X     where the g is the goblin, W is wall, F is fortification and d is dwarf.
g W_____X

[Starver]

Personally I go for dry moats (at least 1 tile worth, but maybe several) against walls, as an overkill defence when either works (when not dealing with fliers).

____   W___        W Wall
####___####        _ Walkable surface
###########   # Ground

I often make use of the wall-top for shooting/observing/patrolling purposes but put an offset fortification to prevent falling.
      H_....      H Fortification
____   W___       .... maybe floored
####___####
###########

And then there's drawbridges
      H_....     
____----___       - Drawbridge down
####___####
###########


      H_....     
____   |___       | Drawbridge up, acts as wall.
####___####
###########

At some point there's a de-ramping exercise.  Depends on whether I want enemies that fall into the moat to get out or stay trapped as to whether I've removed the external ramps at all, internally it's academic with walls blocking the top, but it's more aesthetic to me.

I've also done far deeper moats.

       H_....     
____-----___
####    ####
####    ####
####    ####
####    ####
####    ####
####    ####
####    ####
####    ####
####    ####
####  _--___ Final escape tunnel
####_/#_#### Connected to a raised platform by a raising bridge, for additional security.
############ Works well with sections of wider moat under drawbridges are for falling trap.
(That's the neat "no miner left to die" method.  YMMV, in either neatness or in the miner-death aspect.  Less neat is the exit stairs/ramp finally being capped by walls/etc, less 'nice' is to have the miner(s) deconstruct same from the top down until trapped at the bottom.  Carve a slab.)

But then I tend to over-engineer these things.  In advanced expectation of [CONSTRUCTION_DESTROYER] tags, or whatever.

Having said that, I don't put water in (intentionally!).  If I were to put water in the moat, I'd make it at least one less Z-level deep as the moat is.  Not that this'll necessarily drown anyone that falls in (maybe install some bridges to seal the surface off on demand?).  Also makes goblinite recovery, if that's your thing, less easy.  Although floodgated/hatched drains and such might work, as well as help keeping the water-level what I want.  But personal preferences/wants/needs/possibilities abound here, as to how you'd go about this.