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[Lenglon]

Lenglon: deflecting suspicion onto other people is really not a good way to respond to an allegation.  It implies you're thinking about your actions in terms of "How can I fit in" rather than "why is what I am doing justified".  What I mean is that while you have been posting content, it all gives the impression that you're trying to fill space rather than achieve anything meaningful.  Much like a 10 minute lecture on magical circuits, or a lacrosse training arc.

"So you're upset that I'm talking to people and having fun while I look for the bullies? Well, you can waste your time being upset about that and join Jim-chan's stop having fun train if you really want to. In the meantime I plan on enjoying myself while I'm here. Not everything I say has to be 100% serious you know. As long as I'm still hunting for the bullies, and trying to get stuff done, I don't see a problem."

[Leafsnail]

That isn't what I said.

[Lenglon]

That isn't what I said.

"Ok, so... what?"

[Leafsnail]

Lenglon you are active lurking.  You are clearly trying to avoid any sort of hostile attention by being meek as hell.

Deflecting suspicion onto other people is really not a good way to respond to an allegation.  It implies you're thinking about your actions in terms of "How can I fit in" rather than "why is what I am doing justified".  What I mean is that while you have been posting content, it all gives the impression that you're trying to fill space rather than achieve anything meaningful.  Much like a 10 minute lecture on magical circuits, or a lacrosse training arc.

[Shinigami_King]

Shinigami-kun, your attitude and statements seem to have reversed from previous games I've played with you. In my past experience you've paid significant attention to who is lurking and who is not, and considered lack of activity scummy. It seems odd to me that you would be requesting that people be less active this time, especially since you've experienced firsthand how low activity levels can only help the bullies

I want to make my play consistent after I find a form of play that works. Seeing as this is only my third game (If you could call it that) I'm still trying to adjust my playstyle. I'm also not discouraging people from talk. I just get worried that with this many people I'm going to come back and there will be three pages of text after an hour. I'm really busy right now and I am lucky to be able to put this much content out anyway. So, no I'm not discouraging banter, discussion or whatever, I'm just worried that I'm going to have to read a Butt tonne of posts.

[Lenglon]

"Yeah, I dont understand what you want. You've admitted yourself that I'm posting content, and you've just said that you don't mind the fact that I'm not on-topic 100% of the time, so what else are you after anyway? You're being vague here."

[Leafsnail]

I am saying all of your content is shit and won't help to find scum.  Its only purpose is to make it look like you are contributing.  I don't know how I can make this more clear for you.

[Lenglon]

"I-I-but-uh-but... ok, um, you know what? I-I'll, get back to you on that in a bit. I, um, I need to sit down and think over what people have been saying again if I'm going to have a chance at finding something that has slipped through the cracks. I think you're trying to help me here, I'm just a little, well, really a whole lot, lost right now. I don't think you actually think I'm one of the bullies, but that you think you need to vote for me to make me feel pressured to, well, improve. I mean, if you were actually looking for people who aren't saying anything, you'd be voting for Dariush-senpai or Phantom-san, right? so, um, thanks? could you tell me what's wrong with the questions I have asked? I really think that I'm, well, kind of useless early on like this. I know I need to be questioning people, but last time that I tried to ask people about minor, kind of meaningless, things, everyone got mad at me for it. I'm having trouble finding stuff that isn't minor right now, and I feel inadequate at questioning my seniors in general unless they do something that seems, well, really wrong. Still, if nothing else I should be able to question Shinigami-kun and Ranger-kun, right? I mean, I've talked to them a lot in the past, so I should be able to notice if they're hiding something, right? so, um, I'll see what I can do."
Lenglon takes a couple deep breaths, then walks over to Shinigami-kun.
"Shinigami-kun, you knew there would be a lot to listen to when you registered for school. that's kinda how it works. you've never been scared of this before. Why are you scared now? you've been acting differently from how I've seen you act in the past, and it worries me, because in the past you were, or at least I thought you were, not any kind of bully."
Lenglon next goes over to Ranger-kun.
"Hey, Ranger-kun? I, well, to be blunt, I don't like you normally, but you've been a lot more helpful this time. Um, why?"

(I should have something better to post after finishing a re-read. there's just so many people. I'm used to paying more attention to what people dont do than to what they do, and it's hard to keep track right now.)

[Lenglon]

(re-read done, and sadly the main things that sticks out to me is low activity from phantom, dariush, deathsword, and griffonday, as well as a lack of pressure from solifuge. i've probably missed a lot >.>)
"hunuh, um, Neko-senpai? you seem almost as clueless as me. I dont suppose you could tell me what you think of the argument going on between Nerjin-senpai and Shinigami-kun?

[Jim Groovester]

Who the hell is Neko-senpai?

[RangerCado]

(And this is why i don't like not posting during the weekend in a game.)

"Shinigami-san, it would all depend on the situation. If most of the students who are active seem like non-bullies, I would go after the less active students. I would also do this if they hadn't said anything for awhile and it was coming close to the end decision. Less active students would be under heavy scrutiny if they gave no reason for not speaking, but active students are always the ones to look out for because they will be the ones who are playing their votes and most likely to slip up. Your vote on Nerjin-san feels like OMGUS as your logic for it makes little sense. Please explain your vote without the confusing analogy about cheese."

"Nerjin-san, your case against Shinigami-san reaks of a band wagon. All you've done is take others opinions and stress them more. So he's lazy, if his points are good and make sense, laziest doesn't become a factor. Although he could do with saying more of his thoughts, he's yet to do anything that would mark him as a bully and you've asked almost no questions to him. Why? And yes, you could be doing a much better job of finding those who look like bullies."

"Lenglon-san, I have to agree with Leafsnail-san here, you aren't saying much that would be useful. Although i see it more that your having trouble with so many people to cover rather than acting bully like, you still could be doing more judging from our previous conversations. As for being more helpful, I guess this could be that i don't like being the mean guy in any situation. (unless you mean doing more useful stuff in game, if thats the case, i've been lynched twice for not being helpful enough so I think trying more would help that, wouldn't you?) And who is the Neko you speak of?"

[Lenglon]

Who the hell is Neko-senpai?

(solifuge)

[Captain Ford]

PFP

Captain Ford is winning hardest to read text.

Oh my god, you're right. It looks fine on Darkling, and it looked fine on the default theme on my screen at home, but here at work it's unreadable. I wish I could just specify two different colors for the different themes, (or just force everyone to use Darkling).

PPE: I've spent like three hours just trying to find a color that works works well in both themes, and I've concluded that it's impossible. This is the best I came up with.

"Really? So what if someone changes their mind during the course of the game and realizes there's truth to a tell after all? Sounds more like you're trying to manufacture ammunition for later."

This is literally the stupidest attack I have ever seen.  If someone decides that some stupid shit like OMGUS is actually a tell when they need it to be one (even though they previously correctly said it was completely worthless) then great, they are scum and can be lynched.

The meaning of OMGUS as quoted in the guide that Lenglon posted is completely different from its common use. (The guide's version is essentially a specific form of overreacting to a vote, which is a valid tell) Someone referencing that guide is talking about something completely different than what we were talking about in this thread.

tl;dr; I asked this because I found a definition of OMGUS that isn't completely useless, which invalidates your method of attack unless you account for potential miscommunication.

To move on, have you ever gotten to use ammunition like this before, and has it worked?

Captain Ford - (I don't like your colour, sorry. It hurts my eyes and I have to highlight it to read it properly  ) Should we expect you to act like you did in the great temple game? Could you explain your reasons for actions in a quick statement? I'm curious as to how you thought it would make you look any more like town.

1. No, no you should not. And I will try to be on my best behavior.
2. Reasons: I was frustrated, angry, and yelling back at the people who like to yell incoherently. Also because there is so little actual discussion going on. That game is completely nuts, and I am trying now to get it back on track.
3. Precedent. No less than three other games where I've flipped out when I'm town because of being ignored or misunderstood. I didn't think it would make me look more town, but I was not exactly concerned with that at the time.

Regardless, I am going to try to do better from now on. Getting angry never helps anybody.

Speaking of voting, Griffonday, Captain Ford, Phantom of the Library, RangerCado, Lenglon, Solifuge, Shinigami_King:  Why aren't you voting?

As you can see, I voted Leafsnail not four posts before. So, evidently, I can't. (I actually forgot about it)

Tiruin plays with a fluffy dust ball until her eyes focus on Captain Ford.

"Hey, why is it that we can't vote for Ford?"

I'm actually unlynchable as well as having no vote. I didn't realize that meant I couldn't be voted at all, but I'm glad because that means the lynch won't be wasted on me.

(So yeah, Ranger, I'm going to make it to day 2. )

Leafsnail - What unique things are you afraid of appearing in this quarter bastard game?

Knowing ToonyMan's preferred type of games, the inevitable alien invasion day three.

... 

*shrugs* "I don't actually know what the phrase means either."

Why did you ask this question then?

"Because I needed a sixteenth question so I could ask everyone a question with the first post!"

*sly smile* "Also because I'm unlynchable and didn't have anything to be afraid of."

[Teneb]

Fucking 504s while quoting

Also, I removed all the silly colours. It makes the letters very hard to read, it is as if they are shaking (blue is a high offender when it comes to this, but Ford's puke-green is also pretty bad).

Unvote, since that vote was left hanging since RVS.

This is old, but I'll answer it anyway:

To start with, I would like to hear from everyone: which tell do you think is most valid?  Which tell do you think is least valid?

Hypocrisy would be the least, since, while bad, is hardly a proof of scumminess.

Contradicting your own argument, however, is most scummy.

"Of all of those here Death-san, Who do you believe would vote out one of their bully friends if they were a bully themselves?"

If by "those here" you mean the players, it'd be Jim/Vector. But I really wouldn't put it past anyone to bus their team-mate. But Jim and Vector seem more manipulative to me.

PotL, Ranger, DeathSword and NTQ- Who here do you know from meta game? Could you try to describe their play style.

I usually do not pay attention to meta, since it creates certain expectations about a player, expectations that said player can then subvert.

Lenglon, you are awefuly defensive when it comes to Tiruin. Why are you buddying up to her? She can easily defend herself. In fact, is accusations of being creepy and/or being a jerk your only vote-material? Your scumhunting questions are weak and few. You waste time calling people jerks or creeps and making you posts in pretty colours instead of, you know, finding the scum.

Lenglon you are active lurking.  You are clearly trying to avoid any sort of hostile attention by being meek as hell.

"Ok, um, first of all, if I wanted to avoid drawing attention, I'd simply not post. Secondly, you're saying that I've not posted any actual content, which is patently untrue. Thirdly, if you're trying to gauge scumminess by activity level, I'm by no means the person who has posted the least content. I dont think the simple amount of content people are posting is a good sign of who the scum are during this stage of the game, but I'd expect you to at least be consistent in applying your scumhunting system, whatever it may be."[/i]

I'll split this into the intresting parts.

Ok, um, first of all, if I wanted to avoid drawing attention, I'd simply not post.

Lurking will actually attract quite a lot of attention. You know what makes you not be noticed? Active-lurking. Posting a lot of fluff with no real meat in it. Like you.

Secondly, you're saying that I've not posted any actual content, which is patently untrue

Really? Where is the proof of that then? RP doesn't count as content if it doesn't involve finding scum, by the way, especially since this is not a true bastard.

Thirdly, if you're trying to gauge scumminess by activity level, I'm by no means the person who has posted the least content. I dont think the simple amount of content people are posting is a good sign of who the scum are during this stage of the game, but I'd expect you to at least be consistent in applying your scumhunting system, whatever it may be.

Let me repeat myself: you are active-lurking. To active lurk is to say a lot of things that mean absolutely nothing. To RP and buddy and looking busy without actually doing any real work. As Leafsnail said, you are attempting a deflection. Real town simply wouldn't care and instead scumhunt.

So you're upset that I'm talking to people and having fun while I look for the bullies? Well, you can waste your time being upset about that and join Jim-chan's stop having fun train if you really want to. In the meantime I plan on enjoying myself while I'm here. Not everything I say has to be 100% serious you know. As long as I'm still hunting for the bullies, and trying to get stuff done, I don't see a problem.

Except you are not looking for the scum. Not really.

I-I-but-uh-but... ok, um, you know what? I-I'll, get back to you on that in a bit. I, um, I need to sit down and think over what people have been saying again if I'm going to have a chance at finding something that has slipped through the cracks. I think you're trying to help me here, I'm just a little, well, really a whole lot, lost right now. I don't think you actually think I'm one of the bullies, but that you think you need to vote for me to make me feel pressured to, well, improve. I mean, if you were actually looking for people who aren't saying anything, you'd be voting for Dariush-senpai or Phantom-san, right? so, um, thanks? could you tell me what's wrong with the questions I have asked? I really think that I'm, well, kind of useless early on like this. I know I need to be questioning people, but last time that I tried to ask people about minor, kind of meaningless, things, everyone got mad at me for it. I'm having trouble finding stuff that isn't minor right now, and I feel inadequate at questioning my seniors in general unless they do something that seems, well, really wrong. Still, if nothing else I should be able to question Shinigami-kun and Ranger-kun, right? I mean, I've talked to them a lot in the past, so I should be able to notice if they're hiding something, right? so, um, I'll see what I can do.
[Lenglon takes a couple deep breaths, then walks over to Shinigami-kun
Shinigami-kun, you knew there would be a lot to listen to when you registered for school. that's kinda how it works. you've never been scared of this before. Why are you scared now? you've been acting differently from how I've seen you act in the past, and it worries me, because in the past you were, or at least I thought you were, not any kind of bully.
Lenglon next goes over to Ranger-kun
Hey, Ranger-kun? I, well, to be blunt, I don't like you normally, but you've been a lot more helpful this time. Um, why?

Once more you ignore the point: Your "content" is merely fluff. It's just there. There is nothing to it. People got "mad" at you when you asked minor, irrelevant question exactly because of that: THEY DO NOT HELP FINDING SCUM.

Then, unsurprisingly, more fluff:

(re-read done, and sadly the main things that sticks out to me is low activity from phantom, dariush, deathsword, and griffonday, as well as a lack of pressure from solifuge. i've probably missed a lot >.>)
"hunuh, um, Neko-senpai? you seem almost as clueless as me. I dont suppose you could tell me what you think of the argument going on between Nerjin-senpai and Shinigami-kun?

Also, be more clear about who you are talking about/to.

Deathsword - Don't worry just yet. It's only the beginning of the first day and it's the weekend so I don't think anyone has viewed you as a lurker. But I feel your pain about all this reading. Your question i, after reading through all these pages, who has struck you as the most passive-aggressive person here.

Could you define what being passive-agressive is? To me either someone is passive or agressive, not both.

[Griffionday]

Griffy

(Yes FUN Vector, not obligation)

You know that I don't like Vector's playstyle. Are you trying to befriend me?

"Are you even reading the game Shinigami-kun? Vector-chan(Jim) has stated that if you are playing with anything other that a sense of obligation you are obviously scum.  I completely disagree with that statment, as I've found great fun in being town in my games.  It sounds to me like you're trying to manufacture something that isn't there."

Griffionday - Do you consider being friendly a good thing, or a bad thing in a game of mafia?

"I'm neutral on that.  While I don't consider being needlessly hostile a good thing, I'm not going to criticize anyone who wants to be friendly, provided they aren't buddying.  The difference between the two as I see it is whether you are being positive to them or about their reads/targets.  The first is perfectly fine, the second is suspicious."

I would like to ask everyone how many games have you played? How often were you successful as playing town? Scum? For those who have played a lot, just a estimate is fine of course.

"This is my fourth game, and so far I've been unsucessful in all my completed games."

"Well no, that isn't omgussing. An OMGUS vote is one cast purely to retaliate at someone who voted you. The "you suck" part is kind of important."

"Why are you apologizing to Leafsnail?"

"Right, I'm claiming that saying "You are voting for me, that is a scum tell!" would be OMGUSing." 

"I was late, and therefore missing in his post where he surmised all the responses to the question."

"Ford-chan I would also like to know why voting is odd around you."PPE:"Ah, alright then, that makes sense..."

"But that's normal of the guy, he usually does that. And you want to kick him out on it? How does that mark him as a meanie bully-boy?

"I mean, he's asking himself why he's handsome, and all that...n-not that I think he's handsome. I mean, everyone's handsome in some way."

"I'm afraid I'm not that familiar with him; all I'm implying is that he seems to love himself to much and to dearly to love another."

"I try.  I don't think this would be an universal tell, (it would not work in your case for example) but I suspect it has some merit.

 Do let me know how it works out for you, as independant validation is important to the inventing process."

Speaking of voting, Griffonday, Captain Ford, Phantom of the Library, RangerCado, Lenglon, Solifuge, Shinigami_King:  Why aren't you voting?

"I've not found the time to properly hunt, and so only have general reads.  I'm considering requesting a replacement as I'm not sure I'll have enough free time this week to resume proper play."