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[birdy51]

Birdy:
It is not a lie.  Your wincon would be fulfilled, which would end the game.  I am telling the truth.

My wincon is fulfilled when you can do nothing. That requires that there are only two players left.

Me and you. Attempting to dissuade otherwise is a blatant lie.

[griffinpup]

Birdy:
It is not a lie.  Your wincon would be fulfilled, which would end the game.  I am telling the truth.

My wincon is fulfilled when you can do nothing. That requires that there are only two players left.

Me and you. Attempting to dissuade otherwise is a blatant lie.

It doesn't require only 2 people left for your wincon to be fulfilled.  It requires the inability for you to be lynch-voted.  This will happen in two nights.

[birdy51]

Birdy:
It is not a lie.  Your wincon would be fulfilled, which would end the game.  I am telling the truth.

My wincon is fulfilled when you can do nothing. That requires that there are only two players left.

Me and you. Attempting to dissuade otherwise is a blatant lie.

It doesn't require only 2 people left for your wincon to be fulfilled.  It requires the inability for you to be lynch-voted.  This will happen in two nights.

And where do you have proof of this?

[griffinpup]

*IMPORTANT SCHOOL ANNOUNCEMENT*

Since there's been a lot of mass-claiming (mainly claims of third-party) I'll be putting the town and mafia wincons into the public eye.

Town wincon:
You win when all the mafia are kicked out of school or become otherwise not a problem (dead).

Mafia wincon:
You win when the town can't win anymore.

As for third-party?  Who knows.

My wincon involves kicking every scum out of school. This is currently you.  The reason that you would win if there was only two of us is that I couldn't vote you out.  That would make my wincon unfillable, resulting in your wincon being fulfilled.  But the same thing will happen in two nights.  This is worst case scenario, by the way.  I'll spend my night with someone the first night, getting them out of the game and giving me another vote for tomorrow.  When I avoid spending my night with someone the following night, I'll be unable to vote in the day two days hence.  This will result in my wincon being unfillable, since even if I convinced the third party left in the game to vote you, there wouldn't be enough votes in the game to force a lynch on you. 

oppose shorten for a little while longer.  I want to make one more post before this game ends.

[griffinpup]

NQT: 
This is my case for you.
Birdy has not once talked about what will happen two nights hence.

You want to talk the future, so let's talk the future. I'm not avoiding that subject.

Let's say that he allows NQT to find love. That leaves me, you and him left where he has the infinite ability to stall. This is a stalemate situation. But that doesn't mean it is a hopeless situation. Eventually, someone is going to have to give. That someone doesn't have to be you. You  incorrectly assume that because you have no powers to dislodge him from his house, that you are useless.

No!

You have the most precious power of all. You have time. All the time you need to convince him to give way to love.

Deathsword... You may feel like you are useless right now, and that you have very little control over these proceedings. Please don't believe that.

He pretends to in this post, but he offers on real information or suggestions.  He even admits the possibility for me to perpetually stonewall this game, but he offers no way around it.  Despite this, he presses along without expressing any doubts about his plan to win.  That, of course, is what motivates him.  He wants to win, like all of us.  To do this, he's claimed that he has to get every single third party role out of the game.  But the plan he offered doesn't do that.  The plan he offered would of made ONE third party win, and he completely avoided the subject on how the other third party would win.  If he really was motivated by the necessity of getting all of third party to win, he wouldn't of so blatantly ignored what was obviously a gaping hole in his plan.  His motivation and actions don't line up.  He doesn't need all of third party to win, because his actions say he doesn't need it.  All he needs is for them to not lynch him today.  "But so what?"  That's probably what you're thinking right now.  "Why do I  care?  His plan would still let one of us win, and that's better then nothing.  I don't see what his motivations have anything to do with it."  This is the attitude that he wants you to take.  All he needs is for you to be passive today.  He's playing you!  Don't you see that?  I'm sure he has some form of nightkill.  That's the only explanation for his actions.  He's manipulating you into thinking you can win, all the while planning to night kill me and make ALL of us lose.

That explains why he claimed.
    His play obviously wasn't stellar, so if he could convince the third party to go along with his plan, he could completely avoid the possibility of being lynched today.

This explains why he gave no thought for after tonight.
   If his plan goes to plan, there WON'T be anything after tonight.  Notice how when I prodded the fact that he never thought about the future, he STILL couldn't come up with any actual content.  No wonder he didn't contemplate what would happen tomorrow.  There won't be one!

He hasn't even expressed one worry about the apparent failure of his plan, the fact that DS and I can perpetually stalemate this game, without you winning.
    This might be the biggest tell of them all.  When faced with an almost certainty that NO third party will win tonight, and therefore not bring him closer to his goal, what does he do?  He certainly doesn't propose an alternative!  What he does is Shorten!  He has no motivation to do this if his goal is what he says it is.  What this does line up with is the motivation that I'm suggesting.  He has obvious motivation to start the night as soon as he can while still keeping up appearances.  He has avoided being lynched, and has therefor accomplished his goal.  All he has to do is make sure this day ends and then he can NK me tonight.

Don't let him, NQT.  Even if Birdy is telling the truth, the only way for you to win tonight is if DS lets you, and that's not going to happen.  What's more likely is that birdy is lying, and will win the game tonight by manipulating you.  Don't let him!  Read my case, and think about Birdy's actions.  They don't make sense for the role he claims.  What they do make sense for, is a mafia, still with a NK, that's attempting to make it through this day alive.

[ToonyMan]

Vote Count

(2)Griffion - Birdy51, Notquitethere
(0)Deathsword -
(0)Notquitethere -
(2)Birdy51 - Deathsword, Griffion

(0)Not Voting:

Notquitethere, Birdy51, and Deathsword have requested a shorten, the game has been shortened to Sunday 7/28 at 11 PM EST.

Griffion has opposed the shorten but it's still over 50% voting it.

Day 5 will last until Sunday 7/28 at 11 PM EST

[griffinpup]

NQT:
Don't reward terrible scum play in this game.  Don't blindly follow their last member until you lose.  Change your vote!  Or at least unvote me, which would accomplish the same thing.  You still have the ability to choose who wins, so don't choose the faction that never played well.  They claimed as scum! Don't reward that terrible play.  They deserve to lose

[birdy51]

NQT:
Don't reward terrible scum play in this game.  Don't blindly follow their last member until you lose.  Change your vote!  Or at least unvote me, which would accomplish the same thing.  You still have the ability to choose who wins, so don't choose the faction that never played well.  They claimed as scum! Don't reward that terrible play.  They deserve to lose

I'm confused as to why you are so very, very desperate to have me killed off tonight. My good man, you are flailing all over the place.

I told you, I don't have the ability to Night Kill. Otherwise, I would have been able bully you on Night 4 and this game would be finished.

Right now, you're desperate against someone who isn't even a threat Just let NQT see you tonight and be done with it.

Win with grace.


Now in case I don't have the chance to, I apologize for my rather choice language earlier. I let my emotions get the better of me.

Deathsword, at the end of the day it is your decision I need to respect that fact. Do what you feel is right.

[griffinpup]

Birdy:
You claimed scum.  Therefore we can't actually trust anything you say.  The only thing that we can do is judge your actions, and see if they line up with the motivations you claim.  They don't.

[birdy51]

Birdy:
You claimed scum.  Therefore we can't actually trust anything you say.  The only thing that we can do is judge your actions, and see if they line up with the motivations you claim.  They don't.

Griffin: My manipulation game is done. I don't plan on hurting you, or the Third Parties still left in the game.

I laid the facts out on the table and I will not divert from what I have said that I shall do. That I swear upon my honor as a man. When I promise something, I don't break it. Nor do I feel the need to lie excessively as you have.

At this point you may as well be scum. Your arguments are half-baked, hardly logical, filled with threats, and scream of manipulation. We've traded positions in this game. It's rather comical when you think about it.

[griffinpup]

Birdy:
You claimed scum.  Therefore we can't actually trust anything you say.  The only thing that we can do is judge your actions, and see if they line up with the motivations you claim.  They don't.

Griffin: My manipulation game is done. I don't plan on hurting you, or the Third Parties still left in the game.

I laid the facts out on the table and I will not divert from what I have said that I shall do. That I swear upon my honor as a man. When I promise something, I don't break it. Nor do I feel the need to lie excessively as you have.

At this point you may as well be scum. Your arguments are half-baked, hardly logical, filled with threats, and scream of manipulation. We've traded positions in this game. It's rather comical when you think about it.

OK dude.  I have never lied in this game yet.  I find it insulting that you keep saying so.  It is my opinion that you have a night kill.  This is why i've attempted to convince NQT of the fact.  I find it ironic that you're complaining about poor play when you're on a scum team that had every member resort to claiming their scum alignment.  You can tell me about poor play when you exhibit play of a higher level.  The fact that you're screaming about bad cases while raising no specific issues is also superbly annoying.

Pretty much, lay off until you play well enough for me to have any respect for your ability.

[notquitethere]

"Griff-kun, this is my only chance of winning. I have to take it. We can worry about what happens on other days if and when they happen. Stay at home tonight and I'll be out of your hair so you can deal just with DS-san tomorrow "

[griffinpup]

"Griff-kun, this is my only chance of winning. I have to take it. We can worry about what happens on other days if and when they happen. Stay at home tonight and I'll be out of your hair so you can deal just with DS-san tomorrow "

Well...  I really hope that I'm wrong about birdy having a NK.

[birdy51]

"Griff-kun, this is my only chance of winning. I have to take it. We can worry about what happens on other days if and when they happen. Stay at home tonight and I'll be out of your hair so you can deal just with DS-san tomorrow "

Well...  I really hope that I'm wrong about birdy having a NK.

You are. >.>

[griffinpup]

"Griff-kun, this is my only chance of winning. I have to take it. We can worry about what happens on other days if and when they happen. Stay at home tonight and I'll be out of your hair so you can deal just with DS-san tomorrow "

Well...  I really hope that I'm wrong about birdy having a NK.

You are. >.>

Apparently you can't grasp the concept of us not taking you at your word.