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[moghopper]

I think it could be argued that any nation can become deadly if left alone for too long.  If anything this would apply moreso to those nations who have acess to plentiful and powerful mages.  That doesn't really describe LA Ulm, whose mages would be rather pathetic if it weren't for forge bonuses and the national iron blizzard evocation.  Sure Ulm can use vampires but is that really such a great advantage in itself?  Any nation can get vampires.  Hell, Ulm doesn't even have mages capable of summoning them, it requires a pretender with the appropriate paths.

Let's just that that's not what worries me, and leave it at that.

[Akhier the Dragon hearted]

   Just going to point out that as long as your playing that nation in a game and your stating something like that in the thread for said game at best people will just ignore what you said. At worst we realize (correctly or not) that you have a master plan and are a threat.
   As for the fixed map it looks good. All the start positions are at least a few spots from any other so it should work fine. I want to play a quick test game but I may even get the game setup tonight if all things go as planned. No promises though

[moghopper]

   Just going to point out that as long as your playing that nation in a game and your stating something like that in the thread for said game at best people will just ignore what you said. At worst we realize (correctly or not) that you have a master plan and are a threat.
   As for the fixed map it looks good. All the start positions are at least a few spots from any other so it should work fine. I want to play a quick test game but I may even get the game setup tonight if all things go as planned. No promises though

It's no secret that I plan to murder you all, but you are all planning on doing the same. Thats about it.

You might also want to plan to deal with Arco (though everyone should) as that nation can do some very nasty things.

[gman8181]

I'm by no means saying that Ulm is a bad nation or that I don't have a basic plan for what to do with them.  They have some great standard infantry and lots of fun ways of getting freespawn (from counts and wolf herders).  The iron blizzard spell is actually quite good and is one of the few things that makes Ulm's mages okay (still it would get predictable after a while and it's one of the few things that they can do in combat / predictable isn't so great).  Forge bonuses are amazing, especially in CBM where they become significantly harder to obtain.  Also access to recruitable (if subpar) blood hunters (with astral no less) adds a whole new dimension to things.

It's a good nation.  I'm just saying they are not particularly more dangerous than any other nation if left alone as moghopper seems to be implying, especially due to the poor magic picks.  Might I be able to curb stomp you all if absolutely no one bothers me and if I manage to obtain a huge portion of land from independents?  Yes.  Would any other nation be able to do the same under similar circumstances?  Yes.  Will I find a way to access magic diversity through Tartarians despite my subpar national mages if given enough time?  Yes.  Will most other nations with access to death magic do the same?  Probably.

[moghopper]

I'm by no means saying that Ulm is a bad nation or that I don't have a basic plan for what to do with them.  They have some great standard infantry and lots of fun ways of getting freespawn (from counts and wolf herders).  The iron blizzard spell is actually quite good and is one of the few things that makes Ulm's mages okay (still it would get predictable after a while and it's one of the few things that they can do in combat / predictable isn't so great).  Forge bonuses are amazing, especially in CBM where they become significantly harder to obtain.  Also access to recruitable (if subpar) blood hunters (with astral no less) adds a whole new dimension to things.

It's a good nation.  I'm just saying they are not particularly more dangerous than any other nation if left alone as moghopper seems to be implying, especially due to the poor magic picks.  Might I be able to curb stomp you all if absolutely no one bothers me and if I manage to obtain a huge portion of land from independents?  Yes.  Would any other nation be able to do the same under similar circumstances?  Yes.  Will I find a way to access magic diversity through Tartarians despite my subpar national mages if given enough time?  Yes.  Will most other nations with access to death magic do the same?  Probably.

Okay, I'll just say it.

I'm worried about Ulm if he takes a Forge Lord Pretender. With Ulm's smithing bonuses and the Forge Lord bonuses he can spam magic gear and thugs for practically nothing. This doesn't worry me Early or Late game, but mid game this can be a big problem.

Thats why I'm worried.

[gman8181]

Don't worry too much then because I won't be using the Forge Lord.  Going to use the Blood Fountain so it's easier to get the appropriate magic paths for summoning vampires.

[moghopper]

Don't worry too much then because I won't be using the Forge Lord.  Going to use the Blood Fountain so it's easier to get the appropriate magic paths for summoning vampires.

That better be the truth, otherwise I'm coming straight for you.

[Karlito]

Forge Lord isn't even available to LA Ulm in either CBM or vanilla.

[moghopper]

Forge Lord isn't even available to LA Ulm in either CBM or vanilla.

What? Oh, shit. I must be mixing up LA Ulm with MA Ulm.

Whelp, all that planning was for nothing, but now I'm not worried about spammed thugs mid game.

If you get a bunch of vampire thralls, do you want to play a rousing game of nuke the chaff?

[gman8181]

Probably not.  I don't plan to employ a lot of vampire counts except early game and if I need blockers for my mages but for some odd reason don't have enough money to recruit normal troops.  The slaves would be better spent on actual vampire lords once I have the research.

Edit:  Haha what's with all the threats anyway?  I'm generally a pretty non aggressive player considering the game.

[moghopper]

Probably not.  I don't plan to employ a lot of vampire counts except early game and if I need blockers for my mages but for some odd reason don't have enough money to recruit normal troops.  The slaves would be better spent on actual vampire lords once I have the research.

Edit:  Haha what's with all the threats anyway?  I'm generally a pretty non aggressive player considering the game.

Mostly my own paranoia.

As for chaff, you'd probably do better with some militia that have shields. Thralls suck so bad. Almost as bad as markata

[Karlito]

Markata are great chaff! They've got 14 defense and throw rocks.

[moghopper]

Markata are great chaff! They've got 14 defense and throw rocks.

I just hate monkies. Little poop flinging bastards...

Though, if you pair them with a mage casting Strength of Giants they become deadly as all hell. I've seen them take out giants that way

[gman8181]

Yeah, I'm not particularly fond of them either.  Love playing Lanka in Round 11 but I haven't touched the little guys.  Anyway I doubt they'd do much good against those Frost Giants.  The cold aura is honestly driving me nuts.

[Akhier the Dragon hearted]

Okay the game is up and the following is the setup:

GAME NAME: Bay12GamesRound12
MAP: Fixed Riverlands with 10 fixed starts
ERA: Late Age
MOD: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.94
Time Allowance: 48 hours
GRAPHS: Off
HALL OF FAME: 15
RENAME: On

PLAYERS:
Akhier the Dragon hearted - Tien Chi
moghopper - Marignon
ThtblovesDF - Pangaea
puntocom - Abysia
gman8181 - Ulm
MentalFather - Atlantis
Karlito - Mictlan
Endymion - Arcoscephale
Waterplouf - C'tis
Duuvian - Bogarus