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[majikero]

It's more of a mid-step back. It's a nice middle ground since you don't need to kill a boss to return to full health. Also a downward spiral which I think, is a nice thing. The lesson keeps getting harsher and harsher till your default state is operating at half health. Once you return to full health, you feel like a GOD! Then you slip and fall to your death.

[Culise]

I'd appreciate it if you didn't talk like a condescending elitist. I've beaten DS at least 4 times now, even with a punch-only pants-only build.

If that's the case, I'm wondering what your issue with the game is. Why in the world would you refuse to play until after reviews over a single mechanic if you know you can get past it?

Fun in hardcore games should come from learning to master them, not from "ooh look at the body count." Sure, every mistake will increase that body count, but this seems inflationary.

But that is what this does. It requires you to get better in response to dying. It isn't inflationary, it's incentive. There's got to be some kind of real cost to dying or the player won't put much effort into avoiding it.

Well, hypothetically, because he wants to see how it plays out in action.  He didn't say he's not buying it at all because of this one feature; he said he's deferring his purchase until he knows if the feature works or doesn't work in practice. 

His problem with it is that while it requires you to get better, it requires you to get much, much better, because the bosses get twice as difficult when you have drop to half the safety margin after your fifth death (assuming you started at 100% humanity).  I can genuinely see where he's coming from, even if it isn't as significant a concern for me.  It is a matter of not only punishing for failure, but also increasing the chances of future failure.  He's not asking that the game get easier if the player can't get through it; he's merely wondering why the game gets harder in a direct, tangible way that directly impacts survivability.  Losing humanities/souls is painful, especially if you can't retrieve them, but it doesn't directly say "you're awful; now you get to die in half the time" in the way losing half of your health does. 

Genuinely, though, part of the reason why I don't consider it a significant concern is because I disagree that it's a punishment pure and simple.  In Demon's Souls, you started the actual game (after getting killed at the end of the tutorial, either by Vanguard or the Dragon God) at Soul Form; in Dark Souls, you started in Hollow Form.  I expect much the same will happen here, where players will start at their lowest humanity and gradually work their way up.  Imagine it this way - if the game represented your lowest ebb at 100% health, then gradually tacked on additional health on the end as you increased your humanity to reach 150% health, is it as much of a punishment to lose that extra bonus?  Intellectually, it is the exact same, but viscerally from the perspective of the player, it doesn't feel quite as bad, typically.  nogoodnames' word on the matter is also still somewhat gratifying to me, since it suggests that he, at least, didn't have much difficulty as a consequence of it. 

[lordcooper]

As an elitist arsehole, I agree with MSH.  Anything that pushes me to improve my knowledge of the mechanics is good.

[PrimusRibbus]

I'm cautiously optimistic about the HP mechanic; it was done really well in Demon's Souls. 50% HP felt like the default and 100% HP felt like a massive bonus power-up.

Beyond that it seems slightly irrelevant: Unless you were playing a tank build or power grinding in Dark Souls, taking hits already meant death in a hit or two. IMO, a focus on not getting hit in the first place has always been a primary mechanic of the DS series. I mean, both Demon's Souls and Dark Souls had ridiculous amounts of death traps where no amount of HP would help you.

[nenjin]

I'm cautiously optimistic about the HP mechanic; it was done really well in Demon's Souls. 50% HP felt like the default and 100% HP felt like a massive bonus power-up.

Beyond that it seems slightly irrelevant: Unless you were playing a tank build or power grinding in Dark Souls, taking hits already meant death in a hit or two. IMO, a focus on not getting hit in the first place has always been a primary mechanic of the DS series. I mean, both Demon's Souls and Dark Souls had ridiculous amounts of death traps where no amount of HP would help you.

I did a tank build in DS. Which is why I'm unsure about this mechanic. (Didn't play Demon Souls.) I got used to having at least 1 hit worth of mistakes to make, and that was plenty stressful already. I may start DS2 as an agile build, because in some ways it seems easier.

[majikero]

A proper tank build is all about shields and stamina management. If your taking hits to your HP, something is very, very wrong.

[PrimusRibbus]

A proper tank build is all about shields and stamina management. If your taking hits to your HP, something is very, very wrong.

For a PvE build you are 100% correct. PvP tank builds often take into account the fact that you can and will get backstabbed due to desync and thus pump resistances, and sometimes HP.

[WillowLuman]

Again, I think combining money and XP into a single commodity, then making you loose that, is already a pretty good incentive. As DS2 is, it sounds like the advantage will go to players who spend their time farming for human effigies, rather than those who spend their time improving. Sure there was farming in DS1, but I was hoping they'd improve on its system to discourage farming, rather than ditch it and revert to a previous one. Why give a health bonus to people who can avoid death? They don't need it. In PvP it just gives more-skilled players an increased advantage, when the only advantage they need is the fact that they're more skilled. It isn't as easy to avoid damage in PvP as in PvE, and if they want people to stop trying to hide from PvP like it's something awful, they should make it feel a little less awful.

I just don't see it solving the problem that DS1 had: that to invaders, anyone who called for help or defended themselves without "honor" seemed like a dick, and to hosts, anyone who invaded looked like a dick because they were just trying to get through PvE. If you allow people to go around ganking others who are struggling through with half as much health, you're only going to increase resentment.

NINJEDIT: And thank you, Culise. That's pretty much what I've been trying to say.

[majikero]

Its very obvious who wants to PvP and who doesn't. If you can't tell which ones are which then you can't complain if the host is a dick.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I should note that the context of invasions is somewhat changed now: since red phantoms have a time limit with which to kill you in, facing an overpowered one changes from "I need to get really lucky or die" to "I just need to survive for long enough". (Which I actually think is a pretty cool twist on the invasion system.)

[Lectorog]

As an elitist arsehole, I agree with MSH.  Anything that pushes me to improve my knowledge of the mechanics is good.

Ditto. Demon's Souls was the better game.

Its very obvious who wants to PvP and who doesn't. If you can't tell which ones are which then you can't complain if the host is a dick.

I, for one, support all-out PvP. While they waste their time bowing, charge in for your heavy attack.

[Sindain]

I should note that the context of invasions is somewhat changed now: since red phantoms have a time limit with which to kill you in, facing an overpowered one changes from "I need to get really lucky or die" to "I just need to survive for long enough". (Which I actually think is a pretty cool twist on the invasion system.)

Huh, are there gunna be alternate invasions via other covenants without time limits, something like the duels from the Dragon covenant? Because I imagine the dedicated honorable PvP community isn't going to enjoy having all their battles on a time limit.

(not that I care, I loathe that community, as for me, PvP in Souls is all about being a dick.)

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I have no idea, I just know that white, blue, and red phantoms are all normally on a time limit (I think I once heard something about combat extending the time limit, but don't quote me).

[WillowLuman]

I should note that the context of invasions is somewhat changed now: since red phantoms have a time limit with which to kill you in, facing an overpowered one changes from "I need to get really lucky or die" to "I just need to survive for long enough". (Which I actually think is a pretty cool twist on the invasion system.)

I didn't know about that. That sounds pretty good. It puts a crimp on finding a clever hiding place from which to jump people, but that'll just require more creativity now.

Its very obvious who wants to PvP and who doesn't. If you can't tell which ones are which then you can't complain if the host is a dick.

I'm not really an invasion person, but as they're leaving no refuge in which to hide from PvP, they should do something to make it less of a nuisance and more of a challenge.

I really hope they leave some way to PvP people without a big minigame, even if you've cleared an area. I do so like doing a "Blight Town Fight club" but I have to give up helping people through Sen's Fortress in order to keep doing it.

[Ozyton]

I haven't played Demon's Souls, so I don't really know what I think about the whole half-health thing. I know one time I was cursed in the PS3 version and that kinda sucked, but a little backtracking and I could simply remove the curse. Apparently a patch/the PC version made the penalty for being cursed way less... which is... somewhat strange I suppose.

Anyways, the problem I had with dark souls was the online features which didn't work at all. The game had absolutely no problem throwing invasions at you, and if you tried to call for help at all haha fuck you nope, summoning failed.
Wanna do some co-op? Summoning failed. Play with a friend? Summoning failed. By the way while you're trying to get something simple to work we're going to start throwing invaders at you have fun lolz. Hopefully the actual summoning process is more responsive and less buggy, then most of these problems are pretty much not a concern, but PvP doesn't interest me. If there is a covenant, ring, or some kind of way to make you less likely to be targeted for PvP then it can be sort of forgiven, and a covenant would be a simple way to do it.

That video about the 4 new things had some interesting things in it though. From the sounds of it people will be a bit more limited with their equipment so you won't have people completely raping you before you even fight whatever the equivalent of the taurus demon boss will be.

I know you people like your difficulty and stuff, but I want the difficulty to come from the game, not from dodgy online features.
Regardless of any of this I'm still probably going to get the game, I loved DS1 too much =p