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[Mishrak]

I think the three true dragons that you can actually fight are Seath, Kalameet and the Gaping Dragon.  If you're referring to the undead dragon (that guards the Dragon Crest Shield) that spits poison at you, I don't really consider that a true dragon as the thing is essentially dead and hardly a dragon at all.

Kalameet is the only one that uses fire, and frankly - I don't expect a shield to do much against his fire.  Even the gods of Anor Londo were afraid of him.

[Jelle]

I can't stop pondering about the feather the girl gives the main character in one of the trailers, it has to mean something. Why specifically a feather?
That and the bridge area thing very much resembling ariamis makes me think Velka is involved somehow, maybe even Gwyndolyn.

Kalameet is the only one that uses fire, and frankly - I don't expect a shield to do much against his fire.

Pretty sure Kalameet's breath isn't fire damage. It's been a while since I played (starting a new playthrough now ) but I thought his was magic damage.

[Mishrak]

I hope Velka is involved.  Heck, if we got to visit places like Carim, that'd be really sweet.

[Cthulhu]

Seath breathes crystals.  Kalameet breathes something that isn't fire and does magic damage, and Sleepy Dragon lives in Ash Lake and doesn't do anything.

I don't consider the Gaping Dragon a true dragon, nor the Hellkyte Wyvern (though he does breathe fire)

[Alkhemia]

Seath breathes crystals.  Kalameet breathes something that isn't fire and does magic damage, and Sleepy Dragon lives in Ash Lake and doesn't do anything.

I don't consider the Gaping Dragon a true dragon, nor the Hellkyte Wyvern (though he does breathe fire)

word of god say that the gaping dragon is a dragon he fell down in the sewers and was twisted over time. 

[Mishrak]

Seath breathes crystals.  Kalameet breathes something that isn't fire and does magic damage, and Sleepy Dragon lives in Ash Lake and doesn't do anything.

I don't consider the Gaping Dragon a true dragon, nor the Hellkyte Wyvern (though he does breathe fire)

word of god say that the gaping dragon is a dragon he fell down in the sewers and was twisted over time.

That's why I considered him a true dragon.  Thanks for the correction on the Sleepy Dragon and Kalameet though.  I forgot about Kalameet's damage type.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

That's fascinating! Where are you drawing this info from? Also, this makes me wonder as to why Seath is mortal, given he only lacks the scales.

Several things. For one, you can see how the body of a dragon is just a vessel through things like Gaping Dragon. The Dragon's spirit was so hungry that its body became a giant mouth in response. The descriptions of Dragon Scales talk about how dragons are truly everlasting and that the Dragon covenant is an attempt by undead to reach that same state (probably to escape Hollowing). Seath manages to become a "True Undead" like his exterminated breatheren by use of the Primordial Crystal, which Logan tells you was a dragon artifact to begin with. I believe Miyazaki also once explained that they were more primal spirits than flying reptiles.

Drakes are described as distant relatives of dragons in the Drake's Sword description.

Drakes are seen as undeveloped imitators of the dragons, but in they are likely their distant kin.

As drakes are numerous, easily killed, and respawn with the exception of Hellkite, it is pretty safe to say they are not immortals.

Remember, the Dragons existed before Fire. They and the Archtrees are the only things that can claim such a status.

Kalameet is the only one that uses fire, and frankly - I don't expect a shield to do much against his fire.  Even the gods of Anor Londo were afraid of him.

Granted, the gods of Anor Londo weren't much to begin with. Especially so if you accept the idea that they aren't even really "gods" at all, but giants who posed as gods to rule over the "pigmies" (humans).

I can't stop pondering about the feather the girl gives the main character in one of the trailers, it has to mean something. Why specifically a feather?
That and the bridge area thing very much resembling ariamis makes me think Velka is involved somehow, maybe even Gwyndolyn.

Velka's feathers are all black and the one in the trailer is brown, so probably not. Unless we're dealing with an "original sin" deal in DSII that turns Velka into the God of Sin.


ULTRA-VITAL EDIT: Holy shit, it just hit me. "Go Beyond Death". It's becoming like the dragons, a true immortal.

[Jelle]

ULTRA-VITAL EDIT: Holy shit, it just hit me. "Go Beyond Death". It's becoming like the dragons, a true immortal.

So long as it doesn't involve stripping naked and frollicking in weird crystal shit like a certain wizard tried, I'm cool with that. 

But yeah, the flying lizards we see in the trailer seem more like drakes. That said I wouldn't mind going back in time to the war against the dragons. Joining the four knights et al for some dragon hunting would be sweet.

[Mishrak]

Kalameet is the only one that uses fire, and frankly - I don't expect a shield to do much against his fire.  Even the gods of Anor Londo were afraid of him.

Granted, the gods of Anor Londo weren't much to begin with. Especially so if you accept the idea that they aren't even really "gods" at all, but giants who posed as gods to rule over the "pigmies" (humans).

No, I think they were actually deities.  A good comparison is to Greek Mythology in that they are quite supernatural in ability, but still have similar traits to humans, especially in how they interact with each other.  They're definitely not all giants either.  Gwyn is much smaller than any of the giants you encounter.  Gwyndolin and Gwenevere are certainly not giants either.  That was quite an illusion of Gwenevere, I doubt she was actually really that big.  The only giants that we can verify for certain is Gough and the smith in Anor Londo.  Gough was one of Gwyn's 4 Knights.  Along with Ornstein, Lord's Blade Ciaran and Artorias.  Those three aren't giants.  They're not human either though.  Probably some lesser deities or demigods.  I suppose you could make the case that Smough is a Giant, but there's no hard evidence of that.  There's also Bishop Havel the Rock who is definitely not a giant - although he's not in the same class as Gwyn's family or his 4 Knights either.  He was probably just a really boss Bishop.

You also have things like the Dark Ember whose description refers to Occult weapons as being used to hunt the gods.  And occult weapons do extra damage against many of the residents of Anor Londo.  When the flames began to fade as a result of the spread of the Dark Soul, the gods began to decline.  Clearly there was a plot to kill them which resulted in so many dangerous things (to the gods, i.e. Priscilla and the Lifehunt Scythe) being locked in the Painted World.  Lastly, if you read the description of Ring of the Sun's Firstborn it mention's Gwyn's firstborn as being a god of war. 

There's no indication that I can find that the leaders of Anor Londo (or their knights) were simply imitating Gods to rule over something.  I think they really were deeply flawed and temperamental deities similar to Greek Mythology, but distinctly different from any other humans/giants/etc.

[CognitiveDissonance]

Kalameet is the only one that uses fire, and frankly - I don't expect a shield to do much against his fire.  Even the gods of Anor Londo were afraid of him.

Granted, the gods of Anor Londo weren't much to begin with. Especially so if you accept the idea that they aren't even really "gods" at all, but giants who posed as gods to rule over the "pigmies" (humans).

No, I think they were actually deities.  A good comparison is to Greek Mythology in that they are quite supernatural in ability, but still have similar traits to humans, especially in how they interact with each other.  They're definitely not all giants either.  Gwyn is much smaller than any of the giants you encounter.  Gwyndolin and Gwenevere are certainly not giants either.  That was quite an illusion of Gwenevere, I doubt she was actually really that big.  The only giants that we can verify for certain is Gough and the smith in Anor Londo.  Gough was one of Gwyn's 4 Knights.  Along with Ornstein, Lord's Blade Ciaran and Artorias.  Those three aren't giants.  They're not human either though.  Probably some lesser deities or demigods.  I suppose you could make the case that Smough is a Giant, but there's no hard evidence of that.  There's also Bishop Havel the Rock who is definitely not a giant - although he's not in the same class as Gwyn's family or his 4 Knights either.  He was probably just a really boss Bishop.

You also have things like the Dark Ember whose description refers to Occult weapons as being used to hunt the gods.  And occult weapons do extra damage against many of the residents of Anor Londo.  When the flames began to fade as a result of the spread of the Dark Soul, the gods began to decline.  Clearly there was a plot to kill them which resulted in so many dangerous things (to the gods, i.e. Priscilla and the Lifehunt Scythe) being locked in the Painted World.  Lastly, if you read the description of Ring of the Sun's Firstborn it mention's Gwyn's firstborn as being a god of war. 

There's no indication that I can find that the leaders of Anor Londo (or their knights) were simply imitating Gods to rule over something.  I think they really were deeply flawed and temperamental deities similar to Greek Mythology, but distinctly different from any other humans/giants/etc.

Giants most definitely existed - you meet the Giant Blacksmith, and Gough is another one. But he mentiones them being old, and dying. See: Tomb of Giants. Those giant skeletons didn't come out of nowhere.

The four knights were instrumental in hunting the dragons. Which happened a very, very long time ago. That makes me wonder about Ornstein... is he undead now? Where has he found Smough?

Occult Damage does additional damage against any "living" enemies, which includes Silver/Black knights as well as humans should you choose to kill them.

Priscilla, to the extent of my knowledge, choose to live in the Painted World to get away from the regular world. She is a half-breed and never felt like she belonged. This girl is coo-coo.

Gwyn's Firstborn was the Sun God, whom you worship as the Sunlight Covenant. The reigning fan theory, with which I agree, is that Solaire is the mortal remnant of that deity. A lot of his dialogue, and his item descriptions, hint in that direction.

As for Anor Londo, Gwyndolin is the only remaining god. The Silver Knights are illusions, but when "real" they are the original guardians of the forbidden city. Black Knights are Silver Knights who left with Gwyn to rekindle the flame - literally 50% of the knights left with him. They were scorched by the flame, and became Black Knights. Gwynevere is, obviously, not real and others are long-gone.

---

For the dragons, just wanted to point out that Kalameet's flame is in fact 50% magical 50% physical. I had to switch around my shield set up (a mild obsession of mine in the game) just for him.

Gaping Dragon is, according to a fan theory, a dragon who was corrupted by stray humanity ie. dark soul. He resembles a human inside a dragon, and always hungers for more - just like humanity.

Everlasting Dragon, if I'm not mistaken, is not a true dragon but rather an avatar of dragon power.

---

Dragon Crest Shield, by the way, was wielded by a mortal knight. This might imply that humans of that age have mistaken large wyverns like the Hellkite to be true dragons (may be a prod at modern dragon imagery, which is weak and silly compared to ages past)

[Mishrak]

Giants most definitely existed - you meet the Giant Blacksmith, and Gough is another one. But he mentiones them being old, and dying. See: Tomb of Giants. Those giant skeletons didn't come out of nowhere.

  I'm not sure what you're referring to.  My point was that I don't think the gods of Anor Londo were just giants imitating Gods, but that they were actually deities like the Greek Mythology deities..

Gwyn's Firstborn was the Sun God, whom you worship as the Sunlight Covenant. The reigning fan theory, with which I agree, is that Solaire is the mortal remnant of that deity. A lot of his dialogue, and his item descriptions, hint in that direction.

EpicNameBro found some details in one of the developer interviews that suggested Fromsoft's original intention was to make Andre the Firstborn of Gwyn but it was scrapped.  He goes into some detail and you can see some remnants of it in Andre's dialogue.  Namely, the line about him referring to the fact that weapons don't betray you.  Also him having the Crest of Artorias is pretty indicative that he was probably someone important.  But as it stands with the way the game came out, it's fairly random that he has it now.  In all likelihood, the Firstborn never made it into the game and probably isn't Solaire.  Solaire's armor / weapon descriptions talk a lot about how they're normal and his strength comes from a lot of training rather than being particularly special.  See the video below for what I'm referring to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mEwHOUUdq7k#t=311s

[CognitiveDissonance]

Giants most definitely existed - you meet the Giant Blacksmith, and Gough is another one. But he mentiones them being old, and dying. See: Tomb of Giants. Those giant skeletons didn't come out of nowhere.

  I'm not sure what you're referring to.  My point was that I don't think the gods of Anor Londo were just giants imitating Gods, but that they were actually deities like the Greek Mythology deities..

Gwyn's Firstborn was the Sun God, whom you worship as the Sunlight Covenant. The reigning fan theory, with which I agree, is that Solaire is the mortal remnant of that deity. A lot of his dialogue, and his item descriptions, hint in that direction.

EpicNameBro found some details in one of the developer interviews that suggested Fromsoft's original intention was to make Andre the Firstborn of Gwyn but it was scrapped.  He goes into some detail and you can see some remnants of it in Andre's dialogue.  Namely, the line about him referring to the fact that weapons don't betray you.  Also him having the Crest of Artorias is pretty indicative that he was probably someone important.  But as it stands with the way the game came out, it's fairly random that he has it now.  In all likelihood, the Firstborn never made it into the game and probably isn't Solaire.  Solaire's armor / weapon descriptions talk a lot about how they're normal and his strength comes from a lot of training rather than being particularly special.  See the video below for what I'm referring to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mEwHOUUdq7k#t=311s

Gotcha! Actually, Gods themselves being Giants makes a LOT of sense. As in, before humanity there were giants; giants found the flame, created gods. I like that, I'll think about it further.

As to Andre, that also would have made enough sense. What a shame... as it stands, the crest of artorias was "Entrusted" to him, apparently by the Gods.

For the armor/weapons, to be honest, I could never kill the Sunbro, so I mostly relied on others' info

[nogoodnames]

So, did anyone else here participate in the network test last night?

I had a lot of fun in the beta. DKS2 definitely seems like it will live up to its predecessors.
Here are a few of my observations, with some minor spoilers. Keep in mind that a lot of this will likely change before release.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

1. The two bosses in the beta were fairly easy, but fun. I especially liked the skeleton lords. They pulled off their gimmick quite well, and with some difficulty tweaks I can see it being a great fight that rewards you for paying attention and playing smart.

2. I didn't experience a noticeable amount of lag for pvp or coop. A lot of my summonings failed, but unlike dark souls, they failed immediately rather than forcing me to wait a few minutes before trying someone else.

3. While you can be invaded at anytime, I was only invaded twice over the three hours. You need to keep in mind that while you can be invaded while hollow, so can everyone else, so there are a lot more potential targets for invaders and you probably don't need to worry about getting constantly slaughtered by twinks in the starting areas. I'm still on the fence about the issue, but it doesn't seem to be something that would force you to play offline.

Overall, aside from a few control and interface gripes which will most likely be ironed out before release, dark souls 2 seems to be every bit as challenging and deep as dark souls and I can't wait for it to be finished.

[nenjin]

Invaded while Hollow.....?

Not sure if I like that. I played most of DS Hollow because I simply didn't want to deal with getting ganked. It was worth the shitty drop rates and lack of Humanity advantages.

So I'm not really pleased about that. I may have to play DS2 sans a network cable. If there's no way to avoid online I guess I'll just have to suck it up. But ganking and PvP is not why I like Dark Souls, and being forced to "participate" (read as: be a victim for some dick head who is exploiting the matchmaking) is something that can and eventually will kill my desire to play.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

It should be noted that you are increasingly less likely to be invaded as the degree of your hollowing increases.

Anyway, integrated single/multiplayer has always been a feature of the Souls Series, so I'm pretty much in support of this. From Soft has been good about killing unsatisfying multiplayer in the past, and will likely continue to be.

On that note, I'm hoping they bring out the level 800 Red Phantoms for early pirates again.