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[ShadowHammer]

My marksdwarves keep getting eaten by stuff in the caverns when they don't have room to shoot. So I was thinking, how can i make them more effective in melee? Would it work if I equipped them with a melee weapon as well as their crossbow like this /http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=112008.msg3396295#msg3396295, and then, whenever something got too close, unequipped their crossbow? Would they just toss the crossbow on the ground, or would they just rush into melee combat with the crossbow?

BTW this is my first post ever, so please tell me if I am doing stuff wrong.

[ShadowHammer]

argh sorry 'bout the double post my laptop pooped itself

[Bumber]

Crossbow can be used as a melee weapon (hammer.) They will use it as such when necessary.

[Sutremaine]

You can do that, but for the amount of micromanaging involved you'd probably be better served by having a squad that's mostly melee but has a couple of archers to bring aerial threats to the ground. Also, if they do throw their crossbows down, somebody's going to have to pick up the crossbow, quiver, and bolts left behind.

[MattStriker]

Also, how do I do the hyperlink?

Standard BBCode.

In your case it'd be [url=http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=112008.msg3396295#msg3396295]Whatever name you want to give the link[/url].

More help here.

[Psieye]

It's much easier to just mod crossbows to also be a good melee weapon. Either you adapt your playstyle to the game or you make the game adapt to your playstyle. DF makes it easy to do the latter.

[chevil]

Mine away all pillars of stone that restrict your marksdwarfs line of sight and build fortified tunnels around your caverns.

[Ebonkitsune]

It's actually not a bad idea, as having melee capable Marksdwarves can save their lives lead to heroic acts of dwarfyness.

Set up a basic danger room and shove your Marksdwarves into the room, let them get to Legendary +5 in Hammerdwarf, Fighter and Armor User and then set them to work on live targets via military hunting or live firing ranges using caged goblins etc to get their Marksdwarf and Archer skills up. This will make them effective at both melee and at range.

Keep in mind, however, that Crossbows are less effective as a melee weapon then a warhammer or mace or similar bludgeoning weapon, so have a melee specific squad ready or have the Marksdwarves mixed in with melee.

[CognitiveDissonance]

I made a thread regarding the same a bit ago, it had some useful discussion and information.

link - http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124634.0

Notable facts:
- A melee weapon can work, but it has to be a sharp weapon. Dwarves like slicing and stabbing.
- It has to be equipped in the correct order, or the dwarf will never shoot
- Reported to not have 100% success rate, mostly because I don't think we understand all the variables (bugged and otherwise)
- Crossbows are absolutely pitiful melee weapons. The only benefit they have over training weapons is that they can be made from metal.
- I wouldn't expect melee-geared marksdwarves to be your mainstay, as they will not have the chance to perfect their melee combat as well as dedicated dwarves would

[ShadowHammer]

K thanks for the advice everyone

[slothen]

i thought due to their weight, copper crossbows were acceptable melee weapons.  I would try training legendary hammerdwarfs first then switch them over to crossbows once they have high hammerdwarf skill, but MOST IMPORTANTLY high shield user and dodger skills.

[Loud Whispers]

All of my Marksdwarves carry a battle axe or some other melee weapon. Works fine, don't see what the fuss is about. Just make sure to assign the melee weapon after assigning the crossbow.

[Solon64]

Last I heard from SCIENCE, even with a melee weapon equipped, the dwarves prefer to bash with their crossbow roughly 95% of the time.

I really like how the orc fortress mod does it, with modded "weapon kits" which are really just ranged weapons modded to be effective in melee as well, with just the names changed around a bit to make the combat logs read like they're using a second melee weapon. They aren't, its one weapon with a ranged attack, but it reads and feels awesome regardless.

[Sutremaine]

Secondary weapons are useful in certain cases involving enemies immune to bashes with light crossbows but not constantly unconscious, but mostly they just throw an extra attack into the blunt-primary / shield-bash / punch / kick / bite / wrestle pool. Can't argue that that extra attack isn't a good one, though.

i thought due to their weight, copper crossbows were acceptable melee weapons.

Well, if you're not considering special requirements (eg. removal of the head or upper or lower body), anything is an acceptable melee weapon given time and defensive skills...

Crossbows appear to be rather poor melee weapons, having a slow strike (1250 vs. the 2000 of other dwarven blunt weapons) and a massive contact area (10000 vs. 10 or 20). Making crossbows from copper makes them slightly more useful than an adamantine hammer, but a dwarf who's competent enough to use an unloaded crossbow safely is one who could just as easily wreck an opponent with secondary attacks.

[Laserhead]

I'd either send dedicated melee dwarfs in with them, or send enough guys that while the blind cave ogre is chewing on one the rest of the squad can fill it with bolts.