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[borno]

My case against Deathsword, written by Borno, fakeedited by Borno, published by Borno. Special thanks to Borno.
Disclaimer: This post is incredibly huge. Read at your own peril!
Chapter 1: RVS stage/Day 1

{Hello Newbies, this will be my IC voice. I will never lie to you while using it, even if it puts me at a disadvantage in-game. We are currently in Random Vote Stage, here we ask questions to others (and answer the questions asked to us) and throw around random votes, as you can clearly see in the posts above. Remember that you can use these questions to get better reads on other players, so don't ask about meaningless things. The point of RVS is to get the game going, otherwise there would be nothing to talk about. Keep in mind you don't have to ask a question to everyone, but sitting around doing absolutely nothing is bad and will get you killed.}

Spectr, have you ever played any other kind of mafia before (real-life, for example)?

Ranger, are you going to ask real question or just turn other's around?

Nerjin, are you scum?

Imperial Guardsman, how do you plan to hunt scum?

Griff

Deathsword: What do you think of the thought that's been tossed around about switching the Cop with a Jailer?  How do you think that this would change the game?

Actually, it's the doctor that has been suggested to be swapped with the cop. This adds a certain danger to roleclaiming cop, since if the jailor protects you, you won't be able to investigate anyone.

Borno

Deathsword:
It is LyLo and you are a vanilla mafioso. There are two players who are both suspicion of you, as you were lurking most of the game. What do you say to divert their suspicion?

Instead of trying to come up with an excuse for lurking, I would instead find out something scummy one of those two players did, and, thus, try to convince the other one.

Alright, he starts out strong a-- Wait a moment. Read that thing at the bottom. He is excusing himself a bit, but other than that he's playing exactly how he said he'd play as mafia. Seems RVS isn't as useless as most people think it is, eh?

{A RVS vote may become a real vote if there are sufficient reasons. It is quite a common occurence}

Then, as I have said earlier, there's this. He pops in to post some 'helpful' advice, yet not doing anything about the death about to happen, which is mostly from RVS votes. Except his, which instantly makes everything fine and the lynch able to go through without anyone minding. Except it doesn't, and it didn't. He also kept that vote on IG for the entire day. This is a clear sign of tunnelling, especially if it's RVS.
Unfortunately there were only three or four substantial posts he made D1 (With the last post of D1 being counted as a substantial post), so there really isn't much to go on.
Chapter 2: Early game stage/Day 2
He doesn't do much Day 2 due to issues, but then he manages this:

Ranger

Okami + SwordSmith: I'm going to continue to investigate Borno and see if i can find anyone else scummy.

Then why aren't you asking him questions?

Okami: I complained about IGs death because i thought Spectr and Deaths votes were from RVS and were left there because they hadn't had time to post.

The vote stayed after RVS not due to lack of time. Read below for more. And isn't it ironic that you accuse people of not scumhunting when you are not doing it yourself?

Spectr + The Swords: What are your thoughts on IG showing up town? Do you think he made any good points before his death?

He was lazytown and made absolutely no points at all.

Spectr + Death: Why didn't you change your votes on IG when we left RVS? Specifically Death who had a chance to change it as he did post before the cutoff.

He behaved in a scummy way. I may have placed my vote on him in RVS, but his behaviour made me increasingly suspicious that he was scum.

{Keeping votes on your RVS targets happens quite a lot, especially when the target answers in a less-than-satisfactory way}

Nerjin and Borno: Reads, yes?

So, he tells us that the D1 lynch wasn't because of lack of time... Even though Spectr himself had hinted that he didn't mean to kill IG. Here's the post:

Oh my! Sorry about that IG, i am quite  surprised.

You wouldn't be surprised about killing someone had you done it on purpose, but Deathsword seemed to miss that post, or just dismiss it for some reason. Seems pretty lazy to me. Seriously, even if you're incredibly busy, surely you'd have enough time to sit down and read 1 page? Oh yeah, he also decides to jump on the RangerCado bandwagon, not even supplying his case. He did, however, ask a few questions, which kind of looks like scumhunting, but usually when you're voting someone you to kill them you supply a case so that they can at least have a chance to defend themselves.
Chapter 3: Mid-game/Day 3

We killed one of the scum players, but that doesn't mean we can just sit back and relax, there is another one still.

Death sword- What are your opinions on what the motives might be for Okami to be killed. Would you have made the same move?
Also congratulations on killing one of the scum. What made you decide to vote on him?

My reasons to voting Ranger were stated alongside my vote. He performed actions considered scummy, thus leading to his lynch. As for Okami, it is impossible to know why the scum killed someone (unless you are scum, of course). That ways lies WIFOM. And would I have taken out Okami? Were I scum, probably. I would have taken him out earlier than this, however.

No one has posted recently and I am new so I feel like I am doing something wrong. If I am please let me know and I will try to fix my ways.

Nothing wrong with posting even when others do not.

What, to you, is the scummiest kind of action? Have you seen such an action in this game?

Borno: You keep apologizing for lurking, and yet you lurk. I still remember that BM where you lurked to victory as scum.

{Do not lurk, people! Nothing kills a game faster than lurking}

In this chapter, Deathsword congratulates everyone on killing his scumbuddy! He tells people that they have to stay alert so that they can catch him! He says that analysing night kills leads to WIFOM, as I have said myself earlier! Regardless, he tells everyone that he probably isn't mafia due to the time of the NK! He then tries to kill off another lurker! Must be fond of LAL! Then he expresses double standards by telling us not to lurk, even though he lurks himself!

-snipped for size-

I wasn't truely attacking him at that point. If I'd felt he was scum after reading his response and no one else had jumped on it, I would have started attacking him at that point.

This is scummy. Why? First you didn't want to attack someone. Then you admit that you'd only attack him if no one else did. What is wrong with attacking someone already being attacked by others? There is absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as you don't simply parrot what others have said.

My post was more suspicious than antagonistic. The reason I didn't start pushing him when Okami started was partially that Okami was doing an excellent job.

And this is not only scummy, since you didn't attack someone, but lazy as well, since you didn't because someone else was attacking him (or so you claim that to be the reason).


Aside from that you have also shown yourself to be concerned as to wheter others percieve you as scum or not. You always attack whomever is not being attacked, ensuring you look like you are doing something, but not actually having any impact on the game. Town know they are not scum and thus don't worry about it, insteading attacking with all they've got. Scum, on the other hand, worry a lot about being found, and thus try to just stay under the radar, doing as few action as they can, ensuring there is little to no evidence against them. All of this combined lead me to conclude you are scum swordsmith04, and thus you must die.

He then says that everything is fine as long as you don't parrot, while in the same post parroting what everyone else has said. Nice job. As said earlier, he then simply jumps on the bandwagon at the very last minute, getting a townie lynched with minimal effort. A bargain!
Chapter 4: Endgame/Day 4

First, as to why I haven't posted yesterday: My home was completely powerless (as was the rest of the city and the neighbouring cities) for the whole day.

Also huge post due to huge quote number

You know. I think specter is out as far as being scum goes. It is probably just a case of RL getting in the way. So we should look at his replacement neutral/ town. I suggest we start thinking of what is going on with everything now. The number one suspect that I had was town and as I said specter is out for me. So that leaves borno and death sword as my suspects.

Why do you think Spectr/Replacement is town/null? Reasons please.

We are also on LaLo and my opinion as to why the scum didn't night kill is because we are on LaLo no matter what and this leaves more suspects.

We are not in LyLo (and it's LyLo and not LaLo). We are at MyLo. That means if we mislynch, we lose. A no lynch would leave us in LyLo, otherwise the game ends today.

deathsword ALSO reads as scum to me because he's being ineffective and is an IC so can be held to a higher standard, no hard pressure on anyone for days, pretty much active lurking, and bandwagoned on swordsmith with no real questions.

I made a complete case on swordsmith, if he didn't feel like saying anything to that, it was his call. Not in the quote, but my posts are usually small, I am not verbose (Tiruin is an example of someone who is). Sometimes you do not need to have had any previous interaction with someone to notice scummy behaviour. He may have flipped town, but the things I pointed out were genuinely scummy and thus deserved a vote.

{To define a bandwagon: to vote for someone already in the lead to be lynched. This may or may not be scummy. A vote with no reason or very weak/lazy ones is scummy. One with actual reasons/a case is not}

Deathsword: what are your current scum reads and why?

I have to reread, but as it stands now you are null (your predecessor vanished and you just replaced),

why haven't you been hunting?

University is serious business. However, if you notice there hasn't been a single day where I haven't built an actual case on someone. The definition of hunting often varies from player to player, my own is that cases count as hunting, as the targeted player often reacts to that.

why haven't you been prodding the other players for NOT hunting?

They have been hunting. Most of those that haven't been were replaced. Last day I pressured borno, which then caused him to hunt.

what is your opinion on borno specifically? why have you let him off so easily for mistaking noobtells for scumtells?

Could you provide an example where I did what you accuse me of in the bolded part?

The first part of the quoted text: my opinion on borno is affected by meta (explained below), for I have played with him before. If he lurks in the endgame (now), then that to me is scummy for he once lurked to victory as scum.

{Meta is how a player are expected to behave due to previous experience. Tiruin's meta is that she will make huge verbose posts and may be misunderstood due to that, Dariush's is that he will rage at the slightest provocation, etc}

Borno

Deathsword:
It is LyLo and you are a vanilla mafioso. There are two players who are both suspicion of you, as you were lurking most of the game. What do you say to divert their suspicion?

Instead of trying to come up with an excuse for lurking, I would instead find out something scummy one of those two players did, and, thus, try to convince the other one.

how do you plan to do this? show me please.

You would simply need to go through the thread, find out every single thing scummy made by one of the players and present that. If they had little interaction with the lynched scum (for one must have been lynched in a 3-player-lylo), then point that out as well.

Borno: why have you been lurking so hard ever since day 1? you were active and useful then, but haven't done much since. why haven't you taken the initiative since griffon pressured you back on day 1. why have you only asked shinigami a single question since he replaced in?

Shinigami_King:
How are you feeling about replacing into this game d3?

really? that's all you have to ask him? ever? not even a single RVS question?

{RVS questions are rarely asked to replacements. Instead the questions are about the players opinion on his/her predecessor's actions and what has happened so far}

This is getting too big, I'll make another post.

Note how here he says that he's suspicious of me due to my lurking, yet still refrains from voting. Maybe he's too afraid to vote until the last minute in case it attracts attention?

Working my way backwards through the thread

Deathsword: Seems the scummiest player here so far. Pretty lurky (although I can't say much), and his post on swordsmith was pretty much parroting what every else had said. Perhaps swordsmith crafted deathsword badly and so deathsword resents him for it, or maybe deathsword was feeling a little lazy as Mafia and wanted a quick lynch. I personally think that it's the latter though.

Parroting? No. Let's see everyone's cases on swordsmith:

Spoiler: My case (click to show/hide)

-snipped for size-

I wasn't truely attacking him at that point. If I'd felt he was scum after reading his response and no one else had jumped on it, I would have started attacking him at that point.

This is scummy. Why? First you didn't want to attack someone. Then you admit that you'd only attack him if no one else did. What is wrong with attacking someone already being attacked by others? There is absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as you don't simply parrot what others have said.

My post was more suspicious than antagonistic. The reason I didn't start pushing him when Okami started was partially that Okami was doing an excellent job.

And this is not only scummy, since you didn't attack someone, but lazy as well, since you didn't because someone else was attacking him (or so you claim that to be the reason).


Aside from that you have also shown yourself to be concerned as to wheter others percieve you as scum or not. You always attack whomever is not being attacked, ensuring you look like you are doing something, but not actually having any impact on the game. Town know they are not scum and thus don't worry about it, insteading attacking with all they've got. Scum, on the other hand, worry a lot about being found, and thus try to just stay under the radar, doing as few action as they can, ensuring there is little to no evidence against them. All of this combined lead me to conclude you are scum swordsmith04, and thus you must die.

Spoiler: Borno (click to show/hide)

swordsmith04:

Borno: Is that all you've got after disappearing for an entire Day?
What do you make of RangerCado focusing on you, but not actually doing anything until pressured?

No, it is not.
I think that RangerCado focusing on me then not doing anything about is scummy, and obviously many other people shared my opinions as he got lynched.
Anywho, first thing's first.

You may have mentioned it first purely not to look bias. Also mentioning it early on the offhand (you have to admit it wasn't very threatening even when you "attacked" Ranger) would give you an opportunity to fall back on an old post like you already did. Of course these are all assumptions but they are all possible and quite intelligent ways to avoid being suspected. After Okami started pushing you didn't. You did post again as I quoted before but you did not fully jump into the fray. As if you wanted to avoid being suspected of scummy act known as band-wagoning.

While typing a post, is it possible to go back to previous pages of the thread? I Kind of want to grab some quotes.

Tabs are your friend.

I wasn't truely attacking him at that point. If I'd felt he was scum after reading his response and no one else had jumped on it, I would have started attacking him at that point. My post was more suspicious than antagonistic. The reason I didn't start pushing him when Okami started was partially that Okami was doing an excellent job, and partially because of lack of enthusiasm for the game. (I started procrastinating instead of checking the thread, and wound up reading some other threads in Bay12's roleplaying section. Timesink if ever there was one.) That small post where I voted Cado as well was me trying to have some presence in the thread after disappearing the previous day while not having the time to actually write up anything substantial. I wanted to 'jump into the fray', but I didn't have the time or the material without basically copying Okami No Rei's case. And if I was worried about looking like I was bandwagoning or bussing, I wouldn't have posted at all. Not like I wouldn't have been the only person not to vote D2. Even with my vote, it was still a minority.

So basically you're admitting to making a small post with minimal effort so that you look like you're being active in the thread? Not only that, but you also admit to copying Okami's case? And don't give me the 'there's not enough time' excuse, there was still a whole 24 hours left to re-read RangerCado's actions for you to build a case your self. Also, that last part is WIFOM and you know it. Really, it sounds like you're trying to make excuses for your incredibly scummy actions. No townie would willingly post something that  even themselves admit is complete garbage. Finally, RangerCado did have the majority of votes on him, because a lot of people were no-voting.

Anyway, on page five you asked a question nice and early on. It involved wondering how to play as your least favorite side. The common side that is unfavorable is mafia. So the question could have been interpreted as "how do you play as scum" in a nonchalant way. I will keep looking for more quotes that support my thoughts but seriously. I would really appreciate it if someone told me how to quote previous pages.

I was wondering if someone was going to catch that. It was the original wording of the question, actually. I made it more vague so that I could examine the answer regardless of which side the player answered. I was looking for how they reacted and responded to the question. It was blatant copying of Okami No Rei's stated method of scumhunting, which looked quite interesting.

More admitting to blatant copying. Nah, just joking, but in all seriousness this looks like it was made up on the fly. The question seems dependant on the player in question is scum, as there isn't much that a townie would know or say that any other ordinary townie would know. Unless of course, the player in question is a power role, which means that that question may have actually been incredibly sneaky role-fishing.

It's the weekend. We're not allowed to have anyone prodded on the weekend, apparently. Although I agree about Spectr not being very active. At this point, I'm thinking either Spectr or borno is the last scum. borno, mostly. I'd jump on him, but you'd assume I was trying to distract you.
In all seriousness, if he hasn't made a substantial post by Monday night, I'm putting my vote him. I'm hesitant to do it now because in my view, votes aren't something to be thrown around lightly outside of RVS, and he's provided an excuse. An excuse that is quickly expiring, by the way, borno.

And then there's this. Are you really saying that you want to attack me, but think that if you did it'd make you look like scummy? And then you leave us with a threat of a vote, yet nothing else? RangerCado did that, and he got himself lynched. Better watch your step and repeating your scumbuddy's mistakes.
Overall, you seem to be coming off as a newb scum, coming up with excuses for your slips off the fly, copying other's cases, bandwagoning and even admitting it, and most of all, forsaking the opportunity to attack someone because it'd draw attention to you. No townie would ever do that. All these slips and more, all from one post. I think it's time to hire a swordsmith05, because swordsmith04 is a total scumbag.

Spoiler: Shinigami (click to show/hide)

swordsmith04

What, to you, is the scummiest kind of action? Have you seen such an action in this game?

Death sword-- It is hard to tell. A tell tale sign of a scummy player will be seen if they are not a good player I suppose. They would make themselves obvious. I haven't really seen that in this game. Ranger was definitely the most suspicious but he is gone now. Looking for people to just make a small mistake is foolish. You should keep your eye out, but in this kind of game people over think things and will go on too hard for natural human errors. I can see scummy things in any post but you need to take things with a grain of salt. I am really looking at people who interacted with the scum we already found right now. They could have tried planning on working together to divert suspicion and distance themselves wile not making a strong case against the other. For example not taking quotes to back up their points or saying things that have already been said.

Because of these reasons I am going to vote for swordsmith04

If a scumtell could only ever be utilized in one case, then nobody would ever have more than one vote against them. Bandwagoning is a scumtell; agreeing that someone is scum isn't necessarily one. You might notice that I voiced suspicion of RangerCado before Okami No Rei did. If you didn't, the relevant posts are here and here.

Now I've got a question for you. Why would you try to sub into a game where you already knew who one of the scum were?

You may have mentioned it first purely not to look bias. Also mentioning it early on the offhand (you have to admit it wasn't very threatening even when you "attacked" Ranger) would give you an opportunity to fall back on an old post like you already did. Of course these are all assumptions but they are all possible and quite intelligent ways to avoid being suspected. After Okami started pushing you didn't. You did post again as I quoted before but you did not fully jump into the fray. As if you wanted to avoid being suspected of scummy act known as band-wagoning.

While typing a post, is it possible to go back to previous pages of the thread? I Kind of want to grab some quotes.

Anyway, on page five you asked a question nice and early on. It involved wondering how to play as your least favorite side. The common side that is unfavorable is mafia. So the question could have been interpreted as "how do you play as scum" in a nonchalant way. I will keep looking for more quotes that support my thoughts but seriously. I would really appreciate it if someone told me how to quote previous pages.
Moving on from that. I actually didn't know he was scum in this specific game. He told me he was in 3 different games and he was scum in one of them. Later while we he was explaining mafia to me he saw that I was looking for a beginners game and this was the only one right now. He let it slip he was scum on this one by accident and that is why I wasn't allowed to join until now. I wanted to sub into this game specifically however because Toonyman and Captain Ford told me to try and join a beginners game so they could see if I was good enough for their game. That should answer that question.

If you look at it, all 3 cases were similar? Why? Because swordsmith was scummy. He was town, yes, but that doesn't make his behaviour less scum-like. Not lynching a scummy person because they might be town is simply stupid, borno.

Deathsword: could you please paste a link to the game where Borno "Lurked to Victory"? I would like to review it for building a meta-based case.

My memory isn't what it once was. I was thinking of BM 35, where scum boltur (which I insist on confusing with borno, that was in that game (and also lurked)) lurked to victory. Borno was scum on BM 34, where he lurked but was replaced with always-scum Tiruin.

Reads:
Shinigami: Town, quite a solid player, have yet to see a scum-tell. Also, see below.
Borno: Scum, is trying to drive a bullshit case on me being lurky (while he lurked like a champ), even though I repeatedly stated throught the thread that for the first half of the game I was quite sick, and, most importantly, accusing me of parroting, despite that all 3 cases on swordsmith were similar, including his own (which was not the first, shinigami's was).
Lenglon: Null, clearly intelligent, hasn't dropped any scumtells, but gut feeling makes me suspicious of him still.

Also, I am a doctor. Night 1: I protected Nerjin, Night 2: I protected swordsmith, Night 3: I protected Shinigami.

Then h-- Wait a second. Not lynching a scummy person because they might be town? I never remember saying anything like that. Then he says that I was driving a case on him being lurky, which wasn't the only reason at all why I was voting him. Then he feels the need to alert everyone to my champion lurking, even though I had told everybody already that I wasn't a paragon of activeness in parenthesis.
Then, what sealed his scummyness for me (but unfortunately no-one else) was his claiming doctor. Now, as there can't be more than one doctor in the game, I know that he's a lying Mafioso.

Extremely tired, but I said I would post.

About the argument that my posts contain little text: I am rather minimalistic. I like to condense all my thought into as little text as possible. Look at any game I've been in. Any at all. Try to find a wall of text made by me. Quotes don't count.

Borno, you claim to be the "real" doctor, yet all you did was say I am lying and scum and you are the real deal. Look at my claim. I provided all my actions. Did you? No. I guess you might now, but if I hadn't said anything about this, you would never ever have said anything about your "actions".

Once again with the skipping over posts. I'm beginning to wonder if he's really interested in this game at all; He doesn't seem to read the thread at all before he posts.
Aaaand that is it! Hopefully that's enough to get everyone to lynch Deathsword.

[Lenglon]

Deathsword:

Deathsword: Why did you choose to claim now? Why not claim at the start of the day?

just a reminder of unanswered questions.

borno:, thank you for presenting your case. I liked the formatting of it, despite the length you kept it quite organized and easy to read. I would suggest removing the section attacking what he said in the IC voice brackets though, as anything in those is always an honest attempt to give as neutral of advice as possible.

could you please tell me when the first time was you suspected Deathsword, and why?

[Shinigami_King]

That is not enough seeing as if you look over your actual input it is quite small for us to remove our votes. (16 lines and a BUTT-TON of quotes). I appreciate the efforts so keep trying. Also, quotes are important as is everything you say, however it feels as though you are trying to overrun us with your points when you add little. So while it is appreciated, it isn't enough yet.

Also yes, I personally believe that 16 lines is minimal at best for the situation you are in. This single post comprises of 5 lines simply in response to your post. This is a post without me trying to drive a point home. If you compare the ratio and the importance of the post it's all quite staggering. Also, unlike Lenglon I appreciated the length and I ask for more... we are different people and hold different opinions.

[borno]

borno:, thank you for presenting your case. I liked the formatting of it, despite the length you kept it quite organized and easy to read. I would suggest removing the section attacking what he said in the IC voice brackets though, as anything in those is always an honest attempt to give as neutral of advice as possible.

could you please tell me when the first time was you suspected Deathsword, and why?

I didn't attack the content inside the brackets, just the timing of it. He could have extended, unvoted, told everyone not to lynch so early, but instead he popped in and made an IC post. It's not his strongest tell, but it still is a tell IMHO.

That is not enough seeing as if you look over your actual input it is quite small for us to remove our votes. (16 lines and a BUTT-TON of quotes). I appreciate the efforts so keep trying. Also, quotes are important as is everything you say, however it feels as though you are trying to overrun us with your points when you add little. So while it is appreciated, it isn't enough yet.

Also yes, I personally believe that 16 lines is minimal at best for the situation you are in. This single post comprises of 5 lines simply in response to your post. This is a post without me trying to drive a point home. If you compare the ratio and the importance of the post it's all quite staggering. Also, unlike Lenglon I appreciated the length and I ask for more... we are different people and hold different opinions.

So what? 17 lines is still quite a bit. Here is the post without the quotes and fluff in them:

Alright, he starts out strong a-- Wait a moment. Read that thing at the bottom. He is excusing himself a bit, but other than that he's playing exactly how he said he'd play as mafia. Seems RVS isn't as useless as most people think it is, eh?
Then, as I have said earlier, there's this. He pops in to post some 'helpful' advice, yet not doing anything about the death about to happen, which is mostly from RVS votes. Except his, which instantly makes everything fine and the lynch able to go through without anyone minding. Except it doesn't, and it didn't. He also kept that vote on IG for the entire day. This is a clear sign of tunnelling, especially if it's RVS.
Unfortunately there were only three or four substantial posts he made D1 (With the last post of D1 being counted as a substantial post), so there really isn't much to go on.
You wouldn't be surprised about killing someone had you done it on purpose, but Deathsword seemed to miss that post, or just dismiss it for some reason. Seems pretty lazy to me. Seriously, even if you're incredibly busy, surely you'd have enough time to sit down and read 1 page? Oh yeah, he also decides to jump on the RangerCado bandwagon, not even supplying his case. He did, however, ask a few questions, which kind of looks like scumhunting, but usually when you're voting someone you to kill them you supply a case so that they can at least have a chance to defend themselves.
He then says that everything is fine as long as you don't parrot, while in the same post parroting what everyone else has said. Nice job. As said earlier, he then simply jumps on the bandwagon at the very last minute, getting a townie lynched with minimal effort. A bargain!
Note how here he says that he's suspicious of me due to my lurking, yet still refrains from voting. Maybe he's too afraid to vote until the last minute in case it attracts attention?
Once again with the skipping over posts. I'm beginning to wonder if he's really interested in this game at all; He doesn't seem to read the thread at all before he posts.
Aaaand that is it! Hopefully that's enough to get everyone to lynch Deathsword.

Which is quite a lot in my eyes. Anyway, that post has all my cases against Deathsword in it, which should hopefully convince you to vote him. Still, if you don't think it's a big enough post, remember how Deathsword has been inactive for a lot of the game, so there really weren't many posts I could analyse.
And also:

Borno- Why are you attacking us?

I'm not attacking you. You guys are voting me although I have presented the mafia to you in a nice clean platter, whereas the other 'doctor' has not made a post more than 10 post long against me. I've done all you have asked me to in regards to attacking Deathsword; But now I have to ask you to listen to my case and vote Deathsword.

[Lenglon]

Deathsword: Why did you choose to claim now? Why not claim at the start of the day?

borno:could you please tell me when the first time was you suspected Deathsword, and why?

[borno]

Lenglon:

borno:could you please tell me when the first time was you suspected Deathsword, and why?

Ah, sorry. I began to suspect Deathsword at the start of today, when I looked back at his post yesterday which, essentially, was just jumping on the Swordsmith bandwagon with little to no reasoning. Over time, I found a few other things odd about his story, causing me to vote him. Then, when he claimed doctor, I instantly knew he was Mafia, as as I've said earlier, I am the real doctor.
Deathsword:
Would you kindly post your response to my post? Or any post at all for that matter?
Just a heads-up, I'm probably not going to be too active on Tuesday, and not on at all on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. Once again, could everyone please be 100% definite on who they want to kill by Wednesday and if not an extension would be great.

[Scelly9]

Borno (3): Lenglon, Deathsword, Shinigami_King
Shinigami_King (0):
Lenglon (0):
Deathsword (1): Borno

Day will end 5/14/2013 at 18:00 GMT. 27:00 Hours left

[Lenglon]

Deathsword: Why did you choose to claim now? Why not claim at the start of the day?

Requesting a Massclaim: I want confirmation of Deathsword's doctor claim, and need to know if anyone is going to be claiming anything else before presenting my lynch case on who I think is scum. Shinigami do not claim until Borno has. Shinigami is the only person we all agree is town, so he should claim last so we can catch anyone who Fakeclaims. remember there is no more than one person who has any given power role, if someone claims your power role they are scum. I am a Vanilla Townie.

I'm taking the time to read it, but like i said, i have a scum-read on you, and a null-read on deathsword. please, make a case on him, thanks.

So you're opposing my extension even though you haven't read my cases? Wow. And in case you haven't noticed, I have already made a few cases on him, which you seem to have neglected to read.

I have read every post in this thread beyond page three, most of them several times. this includes your most recent ones.
Just because I read what you are saying doesn't mean I agree with it, and to be frank, you aren't making much sense right now. you need to calm down and organize yourself. sit down, re-read the thread all the way from day 1, and take notes. you know who is scum now, start writing down every tell he makes, all his patterns, try to get into his head, why did he vote _____, why did he ask this question, etc. make sure to include what he DOESN'T do to, sometimes that can be more telling that what he does do. like right now how Deathsword still hasn't answered a couple of my questions, nor presented his promised lynch case, and i'm getting really annoyed about it.

Deathsword:

Deathsword: Why did you choose to claim now? Why not claim at the start of the day?

just a reminder of unanswered questions.

borno:, thank you for presenting your case. I liked the formatting of it, despite the length you kept it quite organized and easy to read. I would suggest removing the section attacking what he said in the IC voice brackets though, as anything in those is always an honest attempt to give as neutral of advice as possible.

could you please tell me when the first time was you suspected Deathsword, and why?

Deathsword: Why did you choose to claim now? Why not claim at the start of the day?

borno:could you please tell me when the first time was you suspected Deathsword, and why?

Deathsword: Please dont make me change the color of your name or bold the word extend to get you to answer this simple question. Why did you choose to claim when you did? why didn't you claim at the start of the day?

[Teneb]

It was a weekend and I had to deal with family stuff.

Why did I choose to claim at that time and not at the start of the day? Firstly, because claiming at the start of MyLo/LyLo is not exactly necessary unless there is a massclaim, and I didn't want to make you or any other beginners think that is what you must do at MyLo/LyLo. Why did I claim at that time then? Because my read of Shinigami as town was due to that protect. Simple as that.

{Lenglon, pressuring people during a weekend to answer your question will tend to only cause you frustration. Ask once during the weekend if you must, and then pressure during the weekdays}

I'm not attacking you. You guys are voting me although I have presented the mafia to you in a nice clean platter, whereas the other 'doctor' has not made a post more than 10 post long against me. I've done all you have asked me to in regards to attacking Deathsword; But now I have to ask you to listen to my case and vote Deathsword.

This simply reeks of desperation. You are trying to convince Lenglon and Shinigami of your point of view, without seeing how they percieve the case. In fact, the last sentence implores the reader to "listen" to the case, as if it wasn't listened to in the first place. This is manipulation, trying to make people sympathise with you.

{A RVS vote may become a real vote if there are sufficient reasons. It is quite a common occurence}

Then, as I have said earlier, there's this. He pops in to post some 'helpful' advice, yet not doing anything about the death about to happen, which is mostly from RVS votes. Except his, which instantly makes everything fine and the lynch able to go through without anyone minding. Except it doesn't, and it didn't. He also kept that vote on IG for the entire day. This is a clear sign of tunnelling, especially if it's RVS.

The content in brackets had absolutely nothing to do with my choice of lynch. I was explaining why some people do not unvote during RVS. You are trying to twist that, it seems. IG was clearly absurdely scummy and if he hadn't been killed then he would become the absolute main target in MyLo/LyLo, leading to a town defeat.

So, he tells us that the D1 lynch wasn't because of lack of time... Even though Spectr himself had hinted that he didn't mean to kill IG. Here's the post:

Oh my! Sorry about that IG, i am quite  surprised.

You wouldn't be surprised about killing someone had you done it on purpose, but Deathsword seemed to miss that post, or just dismiss it for some reason. Seems pretty lazy to me. Seriously, even if you're incredibly busy, surely you'd have enough time to sit down and read 1 page? Oh yeah, he also decides to jump on the RangerCado bandwagon, not even supplying his case. He did, however, ask a few questions, which kind of looks like scumhunting, but usually when you're voting someone you to kill them you supply a case so that they can at least have a chance to defend themselves

Go and ask any of the non-beginner players of this board if they feel sorry for mislynches. The answer will be always the same: No. Also, you conveniently forget that anyone could easily pretend to be sorry and surprised about a lynch. IG was scummy and added absolutely nothing to the game, I would vote him again if offered the chance of changing D1.

Death sword- What are your opinions on what the motives might be for Okami to be killed. Would you have made the same move?
Also congratulations on killing one of the scum. What made you decide to vote on him?

My reasons to voting Ranger were stated alongside my vote. He performed actions considered scummy, thus leading to his lynch. As for Okami, it is impossible to know why the scum killed someone (unless you are scum, of course). That ways lies WIFOM. And would I have taken out Okami? Were I scum, probably. I would have taken him out earlier than this, however.

In this chapter, Deathsword congratulates everyone on killing his scumbuddy! He tells people that they have to stay alert so that they can catch him! He says that analysing night kills leads to WIFOM, as I have said myself earlier! Regardless, he tells everyone that he probably isn't mafia due to the time of the NK! He then tries to kill off another lurker! Must be fond of LAL! Then he expresses double standards by telling us not to lurk, even though he lurks himself![/quote]
So it's wrong to reinforce the notion that trying to a analyze night kills leads to WIFOM? I was asked if I'd kill Okami if I was scum. I answered. I would have killed him, but far earlier. I never said anything about time. Your attempts at word-twisting fail.

Extremely tired, but I said I would post.

About the argument that my posts contain little text: I am rather minimalistic. I like to condense all my thought into as little text as possible. Look at any game I've been in. Any at all. Try to find a wall of text made by me. Quotes don't count.

Borno, you claim to be the "real" doctor, yet all you did was say I am lying and scum and you are the real deal. Look at my claim. I provided all my actions. Did you? No. I guess you might now, but if I hadn't said anything about this, you would never ever have said anything about your "actions".

Once again with the skipping over posts. I'm beginning to wonder if he's really interested in this game at all; He doesn't seem to read the thread at all before he posts.

Let me show you something in this post.

Extremely tired, but I said I would post.

You see that, I hope?

[Lenglon]

welp, you answered decently, from my point of view the die is cast, and I just really, really hope we guessed right.

btw, flavor-wise we're miners trapped in a mineshaft waiting for rescue, right? the smart way to handle this situation would be to no-lynch over and over while doing the assigned doctor targets thing shinigami talked about earlier. eventually rescue would come and get us all out, including the scum. and we could sort out which of the two was the real doctor and which was scum later, or just not bother at all.
or just lynch them both and have done with it.
neither of which is an option in a game of mafia.

in any case, win or lose, this experience was terrifying. I felt like I had to take a REALLY extreme stance or we wouldn't have a good chance at this, and I did what I could, but I don't want to have to get this aggressive again if I can help it. still, if it worked...
I really hope it worked.

[Shinigami_King]

in any case, win or lose, this experience was terrifying. I felt like I had to take a REALLY extreme stance or we wouldn't have a good chance at this, and I did what I could, but I don't want to have to get this aggressive again if I can help it. still, if it worked...
I really hope it worked.

keep the confidence you have shown us thus far in this game. I understand how you feel but showing a calm head, even if you are not keeping one, is important.
For whatever reason I actually suspect Deathsword more than Borno. The conflict here comes from the fact that there are way too many scum tells on Borno for me to turn a blind eye. So while it contradicts my actual thoughts Borno is the most suspicious here.

I also thank you Deathsword for finally speaking, it is much appreciated.

[Shinigami_King]

sorry for the repost, but as far as your ideas go.

btw, flavor-wise we're miners trapped in a mineshaft waiting for rescue, right? the smart way to handle this situation would be to no-lynch over and over while doing the assigned doctor targets thing shinigami talked about earlier. eventually rescue would come and get us all out, including the scum. and we could sort out which of the two was the real doctor and which was scum later, or just not bother at all.
or just lynch them both and have done with it.

Or we could give both of them semi minor lacerations and see which person properly deals with the wound. We would easily be able to tell who the doctor is if we were able to do this.

[borno]

Deathsword:

I'm not attacking you. You guys are voting me although I have presented the mafia to you in a nice clean platter, whereas the other 'doctor' has not made a post more than 10 post long against me. I've done all you have asked me to in regards to attacking Deathsword; But now I have to ask you to listen to my case and vote Deathsword.

This simply reeks of desperation. You are trying to convince Lenglon and Shinigami of your point of view, without seeing how they percieve the case. In fact, the last sentence implores the reader to "listen" to the case, as if it wasn't listened to in the first place. This is manipulation, trying to make people sympathise with you.

Yeah, I am desperate. Yeah, I do want people to sympathise with me. Know why? Because you are confirmed Mafia, and if Shinigami and Lenglon lynch me we'll all lose.

Death sword- What are your opinions on what the motives might be for Okami to be killed. Would you have made the same move?
Also congratulations on killing one of the scum. What made you decide to vote on him?

My reasons to voting Ranger were stated alongside my vote. He performed actions considered scummy, thus leading to his lynch. As for Okami, it is impossible to know why the scum killed someone (unless you are scum, of course). That ways lies WIFOM. And would I have taken out Okami? Were I scum, probably. I would have taken him out earlier than this, however.

In this chapter, Deathsword congratulates everyone on killing his scumbuddy! He tells people that they have to stay alert so that they can catch him! He says that analysing night kills leads to WIFOM, as I have said myself earlier! Regardless, he tells everyone that he probably isn't mafia due to the time of the NK! He then tries to kill off another lurker! Must be fond of LAL! Then he expresses double standards by telling us not to lurk, even though he lurks himself!

So it's wrong to reinforce the notion that trying to a analyze night kills leads to WIFOM? I was asked if I'd kill Okami if I was scum. I answered. I would have killed him, but far earlier. I never said anything about time. Your attempts at word-twisting fail.
[/quote]
Uh... yes you did. Even in your sentence right then. I'll bold it for you.

Extremely tired, but I said I would post.

About the argument that my posts contain little text: I am rather minimalistic. I like to condense all my thought into as little text as possible. Look at any game I've been in. Any at all. Try to find a wall of text made by me. Quotes don't count.

Borno, you claim to be the "real" doctor, yet all you did was say I am lying and scum and you are the real deal. Look at my claim. I provided all my actions. Did you? No. I guess you might now, but if I hadn't said anything about this, you would never ever have said anything about your "actions".

Once again with the skipping over posts. I'm beginning to wonder if he's really interested in this game at all; He doesn't seem to read the thread at all before he posts.

Let me show you something in this post.

Extremely tired, but I said I would post.

You see that, I hope?

Still, it doesn't take too much effort to read 1 or 2 pages.
Shinigami_King:

in any case, win or lose, this experience was terrifying. I felt like I had to take a REALLY extreme stance or we wouldn't have a good chance at this, and I did what I could, but I don't want to have to get this aggressive again if I can help it. still, if it worked...
I really hope it worked.

keep the confidence you have shown us thus far in this game. I understand how you feel but showing a calm head, even if you are not keeping one, is important.
For whatever reason I actually suspect Deathsword more than Borno. The conflict here comes from the fact that there are way too many scum tells on Borno for me to turn a blind eye. So while it contradicts my actual thoughts Borno is the most suspicious here.

I also thank you Deathsword for finally speaking, it is much appreciated.

I, personally think you should rather go with your gut.

But honestly, what have my scumtells been? Lurking? Check. Being desperate as we were about to lose the game? Check. I don't see why you keep saying that I've been dropping too many, when I really don't think I have.

[borno]

It was a weekend and I had to deal with family stuff.

Why did I choose to claim at that time and not at the start of the day? Firstly, because claiming at the start of MyLo/LyLo is not exactly necessary unless there is a massclaim, and I didn't want to make you or any other beginners think that is what you must do at MyLo/LyLo. Why did I claim at that time then? Because my read of Shinigami as town was due to that protect. Simple as that.

{Lenglon, pressuring people during a weekend to answer your question will tend to only cause you frustration. Ask once during the weekend if you must, and then pressure during the weekdays}

I'm not attacking you. You guys are voting me although I have presented the mafia to you in a nice clean platter, whereas the other 'doctor' has not made a post more than 10 post long against me. I've done all you have asked me to in regards to attacking Deathsword; But now I have to ask you to listen to my case and vote Deathsword.

This simply reeks of desperation. You are trying to convince Lenglon and Shinigami of your point of view, without seeing how they percieve the case. In fact, the last sentence implores the reader to "listen" to the case, as if it wasn't listened to in the first place. This is manipulation, trying to make people sympathise with you.

{A RVS vote may become a real vote if there are sufficient reasons. It is quite a common occurence}

Then, as I have said earlier, there's this. He pops in to post some 'helpful' advice, yet not doing anything about the death about to happen, which is mostly from RVS votes. Except his, which instantly makes everything fine and the lynch able to go through without anyone minding. Except it doesn't, and it didn't. He also kept that vote on IG for the entire day. This is a clear sign of tunnelling, especially if it's RVS.

The content in brackets had absolutely nothing to do with my choice of lynch. I was explaining why some people do not unvote during RVS. You are trying to twist that, it seems. IG was clearly absurdely scummy and if he hadn't been killed then he would become the absolute main target in MyLo/LyLo, leading to a town defeat.

So, he tells us that the D1 lynch wasn't because of lack of time... Even though Spectr himself had hinted that he didn't mean to kill IG. Here's the post:

Oh my! Sorry about that IG, i am quite  surprised.

You wouldn't be surprised about killing someone had you done it on purpose, but Deathsword seemed to miss that post, or just dismiss it for some reason. Seems pretty lazy to me. Seriously, even if you're incredibly busy, surely you'd have enough time to sit down and read 1 page? Oh yeah, he also decides to jump on the RangerCado bandwagon, not even supplying his case. He did, however, ask a few questions, which kind of looks like scumhunting, but usually when you're voting someone you to kill them you supply a case so that they can at least have a chance to defend themselves

Go and ask any of the non-beginner players of this board if they feel sorry for mislynches. The answer will be always the same: No. Also, you conveniently forget that anyone could easily pretend to be sorry and surprised about a lynch. IG was scummy and added absolutely nothing to the game, I would vote him again if offered the chance of changing D1.

Death sword- What are your opinions on what the motives might be for Okami to be killed. Would you have made the same move?
Also congratulations on killing one of the scum. What made you decide to vote on him?

My reasons to voting Ranger were stated alongside my vote. He performed actions considered scummy, thus leading to his lynch. As for Okami, it is impossible to know why the scum killed someone (unless you are scum, of course). That ways lies WIFOM. And would I have taken out Okami? Were I scum, probably. I would have taken him out earlier than this, however.

In this chapter, Deathsword congratulates everyone on killing his scumbuddy! He tells people that they have to stay alert so that they can catch him! He says that analysing night kills leads to WIFOM, as I have said myself earlier! Regardless, he tells everyone that he probably isn't mafia due to the time of the NK! He then tries to kill off another lurker! Must be fond of LAL! Then he expresses double standards by telling us not to lurk, even though he lurks himself!

So it's wrong to reinforce the notion that trying to a analyze night kills leads to WIFOM? I was asked if I'd kill Okami if I was scum. I answered. I would have killed him, but far earlier. I never said anything about time. Your attempts at word-twisting fail.

Extremely tired, but I said I would post.

About the argument that my posts contain little text: I am rather minimalistic. I like to condense all my thought into as little text as possible. Look at any game I've been in. Any at all. Try to find a wall of text made by me. Quotes don't count.

Borno, you claim to be the "real" doctor, yet all you did was say I am lying and scum and you are the real deal. Look at my claim. I provided all my actions. Did you? No. I guess you might now, but if I hadn't said anything about this, you would never ever have said anything about your "actions".

Once again with the skipping over posts. I'm beginning to wonder if he's really interested in this game at all; He doesn't seem to read the thread at all before he posts.

Let me show you something in this post.

Extremely tired, but I said I would post.

You see that, I hope?
[/quote]

[Teneb]

Deathsword:

Death sword- What are your opinions on what the motives might be for Okami to be killed. Would you have made the same move?
Also congratulations on killing one of the scum. What made you decide to vote on him?

My reasons to voting Ranger were stated alongside my vote. He performed actions considered scummy, thus leading to his lynch. As for Okami, it is impossible to know why the scum killed someone (unless you are scum, of course). That ways lies WIFOM. And would I have taken out Okami? Were I scum, probably. I would have taken him out earlier than this, however.

In this chapter, Deathsword congratulates everyone on killing his scumbuddy! He tells people that they have to stay alert so that they can catch him! He says that analysing night kills leads to WIFOM, as I have said myself earlier! Regardless, he tells everyone that he probably isn't mafia due to the time of the NK! He then tries to kill off another lurker! Must be fond of LAL! Then he expresses double standards by telling us not to lurk, even though he lurks himself!

So it's wrong to reinforce the notion that trying to a analyze night kills leads to WIFOM? I was asked if I'd kill Okami if I was scum. I answered. I would have killed him, but far earlier. I never said anything about time. Your attempts at word-twisting fail.

Uh... yes you did. Even in your sentence right then. I'll bold it for you.

Let me put the situation in simple terms so it can not be misunderstood or twisted: I was asked if, were I scum, I would have killed Okami night 2 as had just happened. I answered that, if I was mafia, I would have killed him night 1. Just that. A question was asked. A question was answered.

Also fixed the quote order.

Also, scum are the ones that tend to get desperate when things don't go their way, just so you know.