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[My Name is Immaterial]

I DM a 4e game, and was recently invited to join a 3.5e campaign, with encouragement to play cleric. I flipped through the 4e books I had, being completely unaware of the differences between the two versions. The Rune priest sounded fun and seemed similar to the cleric. After looking at the 3.5 character sheet, I realized what the difference between the versions was.

After a short search on the internet, there seemed to be more questions than answers on this topic. My main question is how I can transfer at-will, encounter, and daily powers from 4e to 3.5e, if it is even possible, which seems very unlikely. If not, I would appreciate a  point in the direction of a leader class that has thematic similarity to a Runepriest (with an emphasis on Rune [I want my dwarf to worship Armok, the god who granted her ASCII-sight]).

I appreciate the help. Sorry if this is confusing; it made sense in my head.

[Heron TSG]

I do not know 4e, but I know 3.5 very well. Tell me what your 4e character does, and I'll do my best to approximate it for 3.5.

[Grakelin]

It is almost impossible to directly convert a 4e character into a 3.5e character, partly because of the power system and partly because 4e characters are inherently stronger in a fight than their 3.5e counterparts. If Barbarossa can actually do it, he deserves a Nobel Prize in RPGing.

Here is what I would suggest:

Cleric (Core Class) w/ the Rune Domain

Then you can look at prestige classes. These are basically like Paragon Paths. Although you don't pick them up until later, you generally want to plan for them well in advance. Here is a guide to Cleric Prestige classes written in the same way as the user-created 4E guides, which might help.

[Wrex]

It's simply not possible to convert straight across- the system are too different, and 3.5 casters are more powerful in every way. Give us your concept, and we'll see what we can do.




I should mention that there are no Archtypes like Leader, Striker, etc. Cleric is notiritous for being more than powerful enough to do anything it damn well pleases in 3.5.

[Sensei]

There's a lot of basic, elemental features which are changed between those editions (for example, 3.5 doesn't have healing surges at all).

Definitely the easiest thing to do would be to have someone help walk you through making a character, and just make a new, similar character in 3.5.

[Neonivek]

Not to mention that Fighting classes are just outright impossible to cross over given that their utility and abilities is far FAR ohh dear goodness far greater then their 3.5 counterpart.

I mean while everyone here is saying that a 4.0 spellcaster is weaker then their 3.5 counterpart (and for the most part that is true, mostly because the game lacks the "one shot kill" aspect)... The 4.0 almost everyone else is far more powerful then their 3.5 counterpart then the spellcasters are weaker.

Mind you that isn't entirely true, spellcasters arn't weaker in 4.0, the 1st and 2nd tier spellcasters are weaker... The third tier spellcasters however are much more powerful.

(If there is one thing 4.0 does well it is giving non-spellcasters something to do in a battle against a dragon then just "I attack" or "I power attack")

The only way to convert them is just to remake them entirely.

[My Name is Immaterial]

After more digging and reading responses here, I realize that I should just borrow a 3.5 book from a friend. Turns out that I did not realize the differences between the two editions. I appreciate the clarification and responses.

[Sensei]

Yeah. There's no DnD edition where you can effectively make characters with another edition's books. Besides, one of the biggest changes edition to edition is balance.

[Grakelin]

Spellcasters are theoretically tougher in 4E if you're starting at Level 1, as they are more likely to survive to higher levels.

If you don't believe me, try solo'ing a Wizard in either system. 3.5, it's impossible. It can't be done. Your Wizard will die to spiders and other mundane creatures (when I was a kid, I played with my mom, and she got killed by three regular house spiders at the exit of a dungeon while trying to crush them with her staff). 4E, it's just really hard because you have no health. Unless you're a spellsword or something, where it's only moderately difficult.

If anything, we're looking at the reverse: Martial classes are weaker in 4E because it is so difficult to survive alone in 4E, but doable in 3.5. Since Wizards/Sorcerors never stood a chance to begin with, they are now better as solo'ers.

But if you compare what a character of the same level from each system is able to do, the 4E ones are strictly tougher. 4E characters at level 1 can survive multiple hits, heal themselves mid-combat without breaking a sweat, and deal 6 dice of damage in a single turn.

[Bauglir]

Yes, 4E has a much more linear progression of character power than 3.5. You'll start out capable of having real adventures in 4E, assuming you start at level 1 either way, which is good. Due to the incredible range of effectiveness that spell choice can determine for your character, though, a higher-level 3.5 spellcaster will wind up somewhat weaker or unimaginably more powerful than a 4e "equivalent", depending on your optimization knowledge and the degree to which you apply it. It's generally agreed that casters leave everyone else in the dust around level 7 in a relatively optimized* 3.5 environment, so I'd feel comfortable guessing that it'll happen around level 11 between editions. Educated guess, at best, though.

*That is to say, without going for the bleeding edge of power for anyone, but still making the best decisions within your concept that don't require significant deviation from the usual staples and/or sanity. So you might wind up with a spellcaster knowing Time Stop and using it to apply layers of buffs in a pinch, but you won't wind up with somebody using their knowledge of binary sums to use their first question with Contact Other Plane to ask which out of a very long list of questions they should ask with that casting. This thread is not the place to debate whether or not this works, or is a good example - let us simply assume, for the sake of argument, that this is an example of "bleeding edge" optimization, because the specifics don't matter. It should still illustrate the difference in attitude between one and the other, I'd hope.

[Sensei]

Sensei's Tip: If your "special build" is more distinct than just a class and requires multiple specific books outside of the PHB, DMG and MM then it's definitely cheap (or "bleeding edge optimization").

[Grakelin]

That doesn't make any sense. The vast majority of prestige classes are from outside those three books, and are a perfectly valid part of the game.

[Neonivek]

That doesn't make any sense. The vast majority of prestige classes are from outside those three books, and are a perfectly valid part of the game.

Sometimes but most of the time not really... and by not really I mean not at all.

Prestiege classes suffer from what I like to call "It makes so little sense that most DMs just ignore the rules surrounding them altogether and just allow people to use them like a special kind of multiclass", even to the extent that setting information for certain prestiege classes do not change (Arcane Archers will always need you to be elves irregardless of setting unless specifically noted otherwise).

So no, you cannot just use them because they all require a character to specifically seek out trainers for them and would be a houserule.

[Wrex]

Sensei's Tip: If your "special build" is more distinct than just a class and requires multiple specific books outside of the PHB, DMG and MM then it's definitely cheap (or "bleeding edge optimization").

This isn't true at all. Presence or Absence of Splatbooks has nothing to do with the relative "cheapness" of a build.


I can sense this thread is going to spiral into a paradigm conflict, by the by. OP, I suggest you lock the thread.

[Neonivek]

Honestly though I am not sure what the topic creator can do in the case of some character classes that don't have an equivilant build.

Warden for example.

Maybe us knowing what classes (s)he wants to convert could help.