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[Neonivek]

The issue I have with all this IN THE END is that it just becomes one large "death by a million papercuts" where instead of paper cuts it is just mild rubbing. Death by a million mild friction.

Or what I mean is that a lot of these things are only harmful if you collect a lot of games that do the exact same thing. Yet individually there is nothing wrong with any of these tropes and many of them do make for better writing, better characterization, and better products overall.

We aren't exactly talking about overt sexism in games, we are talking about what collectively can be considered sexist but individually isn't.

Yet what do you do about that anyway beyond just talking about it?

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As for Sports games... They are sold off of the fact that it is FIFA or NBA or NFL...

What percent of women are lets say... NFL fans... 45%

I wonder what priority they should make including female teams in a NFL game when it is already there that women have no issues liking the NFL.

Or rather I think gender doesn't matter when it comes to Sports game, women's league still ends up as a secondary priority. It will always be a "it would be nice, but unnecessary"

Though I still remember the golf game I played where it included female golfers (which isn't anything new mind you. They let you play women in golf games FOREVER ago) but what was interesting is because they included their actual golfing abilities... The "Best Female Golfer who ever lived or still living" is the boss of the easy mode... after which the game will stop using female golfers as opponents because, well, you just beat the only competitive female golfer on the easy mode.

It is probably the only game where "Wow, women suck!" is actually a thing... and it did it through realistic depiction. Mind you if you play a female golfer you will be fine because you don't share the same weaknesses and if you are good enough you can even beat two versions of Tiger Woods as a female avatar.

I only bring this up but, wouldn't it be kind of funny if they included the women's leagues in these sports games but instead of giving them super powers to make them competitive... they actually depict them realistically, albeit with dream matches with the male leagues. I honestly wonder if people would be cool with that.

[Sheb]

Plus, wouldn't it be weird to have female teams in the NFL (which is a male-only team)?

[Neonivek]

Plus, wouldn't it be weird to have female teams in the NFL (which is a male-only team)?

I don't know there was one Hockey game I played where, honest to goodness, if you do well enough... Your team actually goes to the Olympics wholesale and can even face your own nation.

[Phmcw]

Ignoring Elizabeth's role in Bioshock infinite is bad. I don't know if it's sexist, but you can't just say "well she's a girl and not the character you play, so she's not the main character". She is the main focus of the story, the lost detailled character and the game is all about her. She's wih you the whole game, take several game-changing decisions... you don't get to play her, but she's the main character, not you. Which is interesting in its own right.

And as I said, the writer would have to be good first : writing shallow glorfied images of yourself isn't a sign of misoginy, it's a sign of bad writing and/or bad tastes.

[DJ]

The thing with sports game is that they're basically selling the same game over and over again, just with updated rosters. You can't do that with a woman's league because the sport itself is not popular enough to have big celebrities. Just try making a list of all the female soccer stars without consulting google. Now try that with male players, I bet you can name at least a dozen even if you don't follow soccer at all. And these names are pretty much the only reason people keep buying new versions of sports games.

[Dutchling]

Yeah, the lack of a women's soccer game or whatever has a lot more to do with real life soccer culture and a lot less with sexism in gaming.

[MaximumZero]

Plus, wouldn't it be weird to have female teams in the NFL (which is a male-only team)?

The problem with that is that there really aren't any legit women's leagues. I mean, there is the LFL, but that recently changed its name from the "Lingerie Football League" to the "Legends Football League," despite making no changes to the equipment of the players. If I rolled my eyes any harder, it would have been audible. Every now and again, you see a woman attempt to make an NFL roster, but there really aren't any women's teams. There is zero women's football at the high school and college level, aside from individual players, so there's no infrastructure to get something like that started.

Having someone like Holly Mangold or the handful of female college kickers added to the roster would be interesting from a narrative standpoint (if you're playing in a franchise mode,) but the vast majority of college players in general just aren't NFL talent, which doesn't bode well for the prospects of any female player, no matter how badly I'd like to see it happen.

[Leafsnail]

Now that I think about it it would make a lot of sense to put women's soccer into, say, the FIFA games.  It would be great for publicity and would almost certainly boost sales among the large and growing female gamer demographic.  It would also be a good profile boost for the sport, so I'm sure the WSL would co-operate.

Women's soccer obviously isn't that popular, but looking up the stats the teams seem to be better attended than at least some of the league 3 teams that are already in the game.

[Neonivek]

Now that I think about it it would make a lot of sense to put women's soccer into, say, the FIFA games.  It would be great for publicity and would almost certainly boost sales among the large and growing female gamer demographic.  It would also be a good profile boost for the sport, so I'm sure the WSL would co-operate.

Women's soccer obviously isn't that popular, but looking up the stats the teams seem to be better attended than at least some of the league 3 teams that are already in the game.

From the research I've done, it pretty much wouldn't increase female interest in sports game by an appreciable amount. Women are already interested in female sports.  It MIGHT spark an interest in people who would buy games JUST because they potray themselves as progressive, but who knows how big that market is (How many people buy "The Sims" because it allows homosexual and bisexual relationships? versus it just being fun?)

What is funny is that the articles I read suggested that men's sport is sexist BECAUSE it doesn't sell more engendered products like NFL Lipstick or NFL Nail polish. Which we already seen here is often considered sexist.

Mind you don't get me wrong. "I" would like to see women's teams (whether by default or by editing it in yourself) in sports games involving men only leagues. Just that the business side of me knows it wouldn't make a sizable difference especially since sports games are all about milking your fanbase CONSTANTLY with as little change as humanly possible.

That and I don't like sports games for the most part. So I am clearly not part of the sports game market.

Sports Games that Typically Feature Men and Women in spite having male only leagues:
-Golf
-Tennis
-The Olympics (Yeah... Olympic games are often oddly unisex in videogame format)

Honestly for the longest time I thought Tennis was a co-ed sport... I was actually really disappointed to hear it is just another sport with male dominance where the women just cannot compete in an appreciable manner...

I know there is Racing, Snowboarding, Skateboarding and stuff... but I don't THINK those are gender divided...

[MaximumZero]

What is funny is that the articles I read suggested that men's sport is sexist BECAUSE it doesn't sell more engendered products like NFL Lipstick or NFL Nail polish. Which we already seen here is often considered sexist.

I've seen a lot of people on sports blogs decrying gendered products as the sexist bits in and of themselves. Pink jerseys and NFL lipstick are just cheesy window dressing and hollow lip service to a supposedly unwanted demographic. My wife would be pretty happy with a regular color jersey of her favorite team, and thinks things like the pink jerseys are tacky.

[Neonivek]

What is funny is that the articles I read suggested that men's sport is sexist BECAUSE it doesn't sell more engendered products like NFL Lipstick or NFL Nail polish. Which we already seen here is often considered sexist.

I've seen a lot of people on sports blogs decrying gendered products as the sexist bits in and of themselves. Pink jerseys and NFL lipstick are just cheesy window dressing and hollow lip service to a supposedly unwanted demographic. My wife would be pretty happy with a regular color jersey of her favorite team, and thinks things like the pink jerseys are tacky.

I guess the difference I am not seeing... is it isn't sexist to market female products... It is the sort of degrading pandering.

So a Blue lipstick or nailpolish the color of the Toronto blue jays... is fine...

A Toronto Bluejays T-Shirt where the blue is pink is another.

I see what you are getting at.

[DJ]

Women that I know that are into soccer generally follow men's soccer. Mostly the big names, judging by the pics of shirtless players they keep liking on FB. Which is kinda degrading towards those players because it puts their looks before their skills (you're not going to see such pics of ugly players like Modric, for example, but shirtless Cristiano Ronaldo is *everywhere*).

[Neonivek]

Women that I know that are into soccer generally follow men's soccer. Mostly the big names, judging by the pics of shirtless players they keep liking on FB. Which is kinda degrading towards those players because it puts their looks before their skills (you're not going to see such pics of ugly players like Modric, for example, but shirtless Cristiano Ronaldo is *everywhere*).

I personally wouldn't think looking at their stunning dreamy attractiveness (note: I havn't seen them so I can only assume) detracts from their soccer skills.

I mean SURE ugly players are not going to get as much attention, because they aren't as easy on the eyes.

Mind you that is just me. I don't think admiring someone for being attractive, even on mass or a LOT, is offensive even if that is the only thing you like about them. I am sure people have other opinions on the matter.

[Sheb]

Are they into football, or are they into shirtless footballers?

[DJ]

Well they know more about the current going ons in the sport than I do, at least.