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[DJ]

Well, it's not a very high chance of death, but I'd still recommend taking pass-out-drunk people to the ER just to be on the safe side. There is a difference between passing out and just falling asleep, though.

[scrdest]

Well yeah, if you so drunk that you are physically unable to give consent it's rape, because you didn't actually give consent. But if you're "normal" drunk and can and do give consent, it's simply a bad decision.

But if you are drunk to the point of passing out, you have more immediate concerns, such as death from alcohol poisoning.

Then again, getting so drunk as to be unable to make rational decisions is, in itself, a decision.

Of course, if someone else gets you drunk surreptitiously, it's a clear case, just like supplying any other person with any other cognition-impairing substance without their knowledge and consent.

[DJ]

That's what I was saying. It's just that when you reach a certain threshold your speech becomes too slurred to actually give consent.

[Neonivek]

The whole alcohol thing is relatively new (Sort of...) in that us realizing that using alcohol as a tool for affection is wrong. It used to be considered a general enhancer and used for everything... It isn't just because "they taste good" that alcoholic beverages are the symbolic drink of everything.

But it still sort of hands in the air as a nebulous thing mostly because... well... not only are you not forcing drinks down anyone's throat, but usually the person is getting drunk on purpose. So it isn't an accident.

Thus the difference between someone getting drunk because they want drunken sex, and someone only having drunken sex because they are drunk... is a rather thin line... and often the person instigating said sex is also drunk... So who exactly is to blame in this situation when everyone is guilty of the same thing?

Which really just boils down to there needing to be an etiquette... but the problem is that doesn't work either because a lot of people sort of 'need' the alcohol to instigate.

Welcome to the wonderful world of dating. Where no one knows what the other person wants, where everyone is too afraid to ask, and where you don't even know what you want.

[Bauglir]

Then again, getting so drunk as to be unable to make rational decisions is, in itself, a decision.

Only if your explicit goal, before you began drinking, was to get that drunk. It's pretty easy to have a drink, and only later decide you'd like to have some more, once you're already a bit less able to make rational decisions. It's a slope, not a sharp drop, after all. Furthermore, this also assumes that you were in a situation, prior to getting drunk, to expect that sex was a probable outcome. "I consent to getting drunk off my ass" is not "I consent to fucking this person", and consent is an inherently instanced concept.

[scrdest]

Then again, getting so drunk as to be unable to make rational decisions is, in itself, a decision.

Only if your explicit goal, before you began drinking, was to get that drunk. It's pretty easy to have a drink, and only later decide you'd like to have some more, once you're already a bit less able to make rational decisions. It's a slope, not a sharp drop, after all. Furthermore, this also assumes that you were in a situation, prior to getting drunk, to expect that sex was a probable outcome. "I consent to getting drunk off my ass" is not "I consent to fucking this person", and consent is an inherently instanced concept.

Unless it's the very first time you're getting drunk, you *know* this might happen if you take a single drink. Well, not always, because people are subconsciously arrogant idiots with terrible self-estimation of the degree of said arrogant idiocy, but the point stands.

And it's not about consenting to fucking this person I'm talking about, I'm talking about consenting at point A in time to putting yourself in the state at point B in time where you might decide that 'fucking this person' seems like a completely logical response for B, while you wouldn't do so at A.

In other words, consenting to drink number 1 means that you accept the fact that it has consequences extending to further decision-making. Whatever the decision made could be about.

[Neonivek]

In other words putting yourself in that compromising position is a irresponsible and stupid thing to do.

It doesn't give people the right to have their way with you... It just doesn't leave you blameless.

Then again I am someone who believes that victims often need to share the blame. I am not above calling someone stupid for leaving their door unlocked and getting robbed.

Then again that might not be "victim blaming" I better check google. Since just blaming people for their own faults CAN'T be that. It must be something like giving the victim sole blame.

*checks google*

is a devaluing act that occurs when the victim of a crime or an accident is held responsible — in whole or in part — for the crimes that have been committed against them

Ahhh I see. Given that there is no context here... I either believe in victim blaming on principal, or don't >_<... Dang it google not helpful enough!

Ohh well.

[Leafsnail]

Oh, no, don't get me wrong, our culture is entirely fucked up in every way regarding rape; that's not a one-way street fucking over women only, that fucks over everyone (although apparently there have been studies that found that quite a lot of men would agree to have sex with basically any woman who was decently attractive that asked them on the street, so uhhhh...I dunno, man). We have a rape culture, and it's fucked up in every way, from victim-blaming to legitimate rape to 'but if they liked it!' to pregnant mothers being able to be harassed further by their rapists to the idea that women can't be rapists to...I mean, it's seriously terrible, and honestly deserves a thread of it's own, I feel it's such a large issue.

What? No. I'm saying that in terms of the college intoxication part, it gets even more muddled with men since there's a fair chance they would have wanted to anyway(which is probably some small portion of the reason those types of rapes aren't really reported by men).

These are both classic rape myths, and I don't think you should lend either of them any credibility.  Even if they're factually true I don't think that either the fact that someone statistically is likely to want something or the fact that they might later decide they were ok with it justifies bypassing consent.

[Neonivek]

There are some people Leafsnail who have the "Judgment relaxing" effect that alcohol has on them work excessively well... (I've met two like that).

But they were also people who when they discovered this, rightfully stayed away from alcohol.

[Reelya]

Hu, everyone, that's the median number, not the average number of partners.

Another study, by British researchers, stated that men had 12.7 heterosexual partners in their lifetimes and women had 6.5.

That one, which I already cited, is clearly the arithmetic mean, since it's literally impossible to have a fractional median.

Not that some studies don't cite median values, but there's no way to pass off the above values as medians. Also, I already discussed why vastly different median values are problematic. Since the arithmetic means must be the same, then a much lower median for women must be balanced by a small of "super sluts" to even out the numbers, and we have to assume there are not an equal amount of guys who sleep around a lot.

[Dutchling]

It's totally possible. You just need a even number of people, although it's fairly unlikely to have 12.7 as a result in this case.

[scrdest]

In other words putting yourself in that compromising position is a irresponsible and stupid thing to do.

It doesn't give people the right to have their way with you... It just doesn't leave you blameless.

Then again I am someone who believes that victims often need to share the blame. I am not above calling someone stupid for leaving their door unlocked and getting robbed.

Then again that might not be "victim blaming" I better check google. Since just blaming people for their own faults CAN'T be that. It must be something like giving the victim sole blame.

*checks google*

is a devaluing act that occurs when the victim of a crime or an accident is held responsible — in whole or in part — for the crimes that have been committed against them

Ahhh I see. Given that there is no context here... I either believe in victim blaming on principal, or don't >_<... Dang it google not helpful enough!

Ohh well.

We're talking about separate things - outright taking advantage of someone who is too intoxicated to be able to use their full capacity to not consent and 'withdrawn consent' style lapse in judgement where the person gave enthusiastic consent but without being in full possession of faculties that would have led to the person not consenting had s/he hadn't been intoxicated.

In the former case, the victim is quite clearly a victim, like someone who got robbed while he was away from home. The latter is more like inviting a guy over, getting drunk with him, telling him he can take anything he wants from your house free of charge, then waking up next morning and realizing that wasn't the best idea.

Hu, everyone, that's the median number, not the average number of partners.

Another study, by British researchers, stated that men had 12.7 heterosexual partners in their lifetimes and women had 6.5.

That one, which I already cited, is clearly the arithmetic mean, since it's literally impossible to have a fractional median.

Not true, only applies for medians of an odd number of samples.

Oh, no, don't get me wrong, our culture is entirely fucked up in every way regarding rape; that's not a one-way street fucking over women only, that fucks over everyone (although apparently there have been studies that found that quite a lot of men would agree to have sex with basically any woman who was decently attractive that asked them on the street, so uhhhh...I dunno, man). We have a rape culture, and it's fucked up in every way, from victim-blaming to legitimate rape to 'but if they liked it!' to pregnant mothers being able to be harassed further by their rapists to the idea that women can't be rapists to...I mean, it's seriously terrible, and honestly deserves a thread of it's own, I feel it's such a large issue.

As a fun addition to that study, so have women.

[Neonivek]

I havn't even had 1... Who the heck has had 12?

[Ogdibus]

Isn't median the most frequently occurring value?  Isn't gender considered qualitative data?  You can't really have a fraction of a gender in a legal sense, that I'm aware of.  I know there are countries that have third gender options, but not gender as a quantitative value.

[Dutchling]

Median is like,
data = { 1, 1, 3, 4, 100000000 }
median is 3