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[Neonivek]

I think though, diversity of mooks could backfire in e.g. sandbox games. What if women in GTA came in all body shapes and skin colors? I could do a let's play where I only exterminate fat black women for example. I can't see that being good publicity for the game, even though the inclusion of various body types and skin colors was intended to be "more inclusive".

No, then you go to her 4th video. Where sexy women get extra forms of protection to prevent players from desiring to kill them. Like getting arrested on the spot, or just dying on the spot.

I can't imagine she would support the sexy women being protected by armed guards at all time... Because that just makes it an achievement to kill the sexy woman.

[Phmcw]

I think though, diversity of mooks could backfire in e.g. sandbox games. What if women in GTA came in all body shapes and skin colors? I could do a let's play where I only exterminate fat black women for example. I can't see that being good publicity for the game, even though the inclusion of various body types and skin colors was intended to be "more inclusive".

Bad behavior in a game will never have real-world implications, so being "inclusive" just opens up the game to include more potential examples of abuse of differing minorities.

And that'd be a problem because? Seriously, the problem would be with the person, not with the game. We all rembember "the incident" with dwarf fortress.

[Neonivek]

I think though, diversity of mooks could backfire in e.g. sandbox games. What if women in GTA came in all body shapes and skin colors? I could do a let's play where I only exterminate fat black women for example. I can't see that being good publicity for the game, even though the inclusion of various body types and skin colors was intended to be "more inclusive".

Bad behavior in a game will never have real-world implications, so being "inclusive" just opens up the game to include more potential examples of abuse of differing minorities.

And that'd be a problem because? Seriously, the problem would be with the person, not with the game. We all rembember "the incident" with dwarf fortress.

Because by having racially and gender diverse characters the game is influencing you to torture, kill, and maim them. The game should offer extra protection to women who seem like bigger targets according to Anita.

So for example if you are having a gun fight during a Opera, if the Opera singer on stage is a woman, than she is a bigger target.

[scrdest]

I think though, diversity of mooks could backfire in e.g. sandbox games. What if women in GTA came in all body shapes and skin colors? I could do a let's play where I only exterminate fat black women for example. I can't see that being good publicity for the game, even though the inclusion of various body types and skin colors was intended to be "more inclusive".

Bad behavior in a game will never have real-world implications, so being "inclusive" just opens up the game to include more potential examples of abuse of differing minorities.

And that'd be a problem because? Seriously, the problem would be with the person, not with the game. We all rembember "the incident" with dwarf fortress.

You are implying that the most idiotic people taking part in the discussion would or could make such a distinction when it gets in the way of a tasty, tasty internet fight.

[DJ]

You could always build stuff in a swastika pattern in sandbox games (a very common thing in H&H, for example), so I think we should just ban the whole genre

[Phmcw]

Because by having racially and gender diverse characters the game is influencing you to torture, kill, and maim them.

So, it's... better... when you do it to white men??? Because???

I mean a let's play where you exterminate a race is racist but mostly stupid and pointless. I can imagine that it could be a bonding ritual between the membres of an hate group, or the work of an edgy bored tennager. The second in moslty harmless, in the first the game isn't the problem.

You could always build stuff in a swastika pattern in sandbox games, so I think we should just ban the whole genre

That seems an equally reasonable proposition.

[Neonivek]

You could always build stuff in a swastika pattern in sandbox games, so I think we should just ban the whole genre

Ban the entire Sandbox genre?

Oddly enough, while there are good Sandboxes out there... I'd somehow think videogames would improve.

So, it's... better... when you do it to white men??? Because???

If I had to interpret Anita's work...

It is because you don't kill men because they are men in videogames. You kill women because they are women and thus they are there to murder, kill, maim, or feel sorry for. If they are sexy they are there for you to enact your sexualized violence upon because sexy women are either "bad" or because it is hot.

(By the by she uses Hitman for the example. A game where you can shoot random people on the street, innocent police officers, and pretty much anywhere you can get your hands on... without penalty)

[Phmcw]

So, it's... better... when you do it to white men??? Because???

If I had to interpret Anita's work...

It is because you don't kill men because they are men in videogames. You kill women because they are women and thus they are there to murder, kill, maim, or feel sorry for.

That make no sense in so many different way :

There are no correlation between virtual violence and real violence.

Men are the primary victim of murder and violent crime by a huge amount. The violence against women is usually domestic in nature and completely different from what is shown in video games.

Feminism usually insit that men and women are equal. This go completely against what feminism is supposed to stand for.

The devs aren't responsible for the actions of the players.

[Fniff]

People will do horrible things in sandbox videogames because that's half the point of a sandbox videogame.

I don't see how brutally murdering pedestrians in a game where everyone who you can kill is a WASP is better then murdering pedestrians in a game with a diverse cast. Really, the former is worse then the latter. The people who were going to murder everyone for no reason would have done it in either game and it wouldn't really affect them at all, but the former is the exact opposite of wanting equality.

Remember: objectification isn't just demonizing a person, it's also deifying a person. And what's the best way to do that in a videogame about killing people then making a certain group of people impossible to kill?

[Neonivek]

Anita recognizes that but says that woman in compromising positions in videogames (Like being a prostitute or anything that looks vaguely sexy) should be offered extra production.

You can still go out and kill them, but the player should be punished for it (actually she doesn't say that... she instead says the misguided "they should be offered extra protection" non-verbatim... which as I said just makes it an achievement >_>).

Mind you I just know Anita is going to reference the Sexy Nuns in Hitman at some point (if not that video >_> since I havn't seen it YET. I just pay attention to the discussions here).

Which would be something to point out... if the entire gaming community didn't almost unilaterally lampoon the game for it being incredibly stupid... as well it was REALLY out of place in Hitman... Not because there were killers dressed as Nuns (because honestly that is kind of interesting)... but because there are killers dressed as Nuns wearing Leather/Latex clothing. Which honestly to me actually decreased their level of threat (YES them being dressed as ordinary Nuns... was more threatening then Sexy Latex Nuns... because I know the ones dressed as ordinary Nuns are competent)

I guess what I am trying to say is... The Sexy Nuns in Hitman weren't an issue because no one liked them (at least that is what I noticed).

[Fniff]

This makes me recall the fact that in one of the Command & Conquer games, if you pirated it, your base would instantly explode after a certain point. This caused a competition to try and get as far as you could before your base inevitably exploded and you instantly lost.

I imagine the same thing would happen in this hypothetical sandbox game. "Oh hey, I managed to kill 450 models before a SWAT team finally blew my head off." "Hah, that's nothing, I killed a thousand whores before god finally struck me down with a lightening bolt."

This isn't hyperbole. My brother and his friends play a lot of GTA in the sandbox mode. All of them are lovely, but I bet if there was a restriction like that in place they would start a competition like that almost instantly.

[Neonivek]

I should state something about Command and Conquer in terms of "Anita doesn't like the game"

Tanya DOES get captured ONCE and needs to be saved by A MAN before she gets TORTURED for information.

To admit... Tanya pretty much kicks all kinds of ass afterwards and saving her was incredibly difficult and relied on using a spy... not a named spy mind you.

But still, it falls under the rules of Anita.

[Phmcw]

Yeah, televangelist level in quality, aim, and method.

I'm deeply disapointed that so many fell for it.

[Neonivek]

Yeah, televangelist level in quality, aim, and method.

I'm deeply disapointed that so many fell for it.

Actually this is probably the best metaphor for Tropes Versus Women.

She essentially televangelises.

[Rolan7]

Nah, it's a documentary.  Lots of documentaries have agendas, mistakes, and don't back up their claims...  Just look at the History Channel.

A documentary isn't about building air-tight arguments, it's about showing a bunch of material and suggesting conclusions.  Raising awareness and starting discussion about important issues.  Anita says a lot of things I don't agree with, but I'm glad people are debating the topics.